Discussion Pakistan navy, s frigate options 2016

[YeBeWarned]

You must admire his Dedication at least

 

[Penguin]

am confused, was that aimed at me? living in Africa I slightly know the geography!

please feel free to google Zimbabwe china all weather friend!

See posts #14 and #15, Ayeshah.

PNS should go for a few (4-5) heavies like type 055 ... with a total of 128 cell VLS per ship and plethora of AShMs and ASuMs, it will have a huge psychological effect on the enemies and boost the power and moral of PNS.

With the exception of 056, none of the new ship designs that have entered PLAN service (051C, 052B/C/D, 054/A, 022) have been exported, either in original form or special export form. I don't expect PLAN will put foreign needs before its own, so it will first build its own 055s before even beginning to consider export (if any at all).

Besides, what good does having a fleet of battleship or aircraft carriers do if these are virtually unprotected/suppored with other fleet elements. That's like sending a tank into battle, and urban combat in particular, without support from (mechanized) infantry and helicopters and air support.

 

[MystryMan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/816482084982165504

What is the range for HQ-10? Is it similar to FM-90N on PN's F-22P?

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Can the same be done with PN's Zulfiqar-Class (F-22P) Frigates.

https://twitter.com/x/status/816482084982165504

I guess they have the same basic design. Then it should be doable.
@Penguin , @Bilal Khan (Quwa) , @Arsalan , @Rashid Mahmood

Yes can be done, provided PN wants to.
But its a low range SAM to be used against Missiles and the F22 already have the CIWS.

 

[Penguin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/816482084982165504

What is the range for HQ-10? Is it similar to FM-90N on PN's F-22P?

6-9 km. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TY-90#FL-3000N
That is less than FM90N

Advantages relative to HQ7/FM-90N:

• passive RF + ImIR homing or ImIR homing only (rather than CLOS > saves radar director)
• more ready missiles on the launcher
• smaller, hence more easily reloaded at sea

Backed by 2x 30mm gatling CIWS.

 

[fatman17]

Only 2 options.
Chinese.
Turkish.

 

[nomi007]

italian navy ex ships are best option

 

[Sloth 22]

italian navy ex ships are best option

List of Surface Warships in active Service with Italian Navy.

1. Horizon Class Destroyers and FREMM class Frigates are very new ships in the service and not likely to be sold so early.

2. Durand de la Penne-class
Number :- 02
Commissioned :- 1992
Displacement :- 4500-5600 Tons

Propulsion:- CODOG
- 2 × General Electric/Avio LM2500 gas turbines providing 41.000 kW (54.982 hp)
- 2 × diesel engines Grandi Motori Trieste BL-230-20-DVM 9.396 kW (12.600 hp)
- 6 x diesel engine generators Fincantieri DMD 203-6

Armaments:-
1 × Otobreda 127 mm gun
3 × Oto Melara 76/62 mm Super Rapido gun
1 × Albatross octuple launcher for Selenia Aspide SAM
1 × Mk 13 launcher with 40 Standard SM-1MR missiles
4 × OTOMAT Mk2 SSMs
4 × Milas anti submarine missile
2 × 324 mm triple torpedo launchers WASS B515/3

Aviation Facilities for 2 Helicopters

Notes :- The Armaments can be upgraded. The Mk13 launcher can be replaced by 2 eight cell MK41 VLS systems with ESSM , 4 Milas ASW missile Launcher can be replaced by Anti Ship Missile of Choice.

Even the 8 Missile Octuple Aspire SAM launcher can be replaced by Anti Ship Missiles.

This would give the ships 64 SAM and 16 Anti Ship Missiles Ready to fire.

Continued ....

3. Maestrale-class

Number :- 08 [7 Active , 1 Decommissioned]
Commissioned :- 1981
Displacement :- 3000 Tons

Propulsion:-CODOG scheme
- 2 × GE/Avio General Electric LM2500 gas turbines 18.380 kW (24.648 hp) eachone
- 2 × diesel engines Grandi Motori Trieste BL-230-20-DVM, 4.044 kW (5.423 hp) eachone
- 4 × diesel engine generators Grandi Motori Trieste A-236-SS, 780 kW (1,050 hp) eachone with Ansaldo generators

Armaments:-

1 × Otobreda 127 mm/54 gun
2 × Oto Melara Twin 40L70 DARDO CIWS
2 × Browning HB2B 12.7 mm
2 × MG 42/59 7.62 mm
2 × 324 mm triple torpedo tubes (Whitehead ILAS-3) with Mk-46 Mod.2 torpedoes
1× Albatross octuple Aspide SAM launchers
4 × TESEO Mk-2 anti-ship missiles, double launchers

Aviation Facilities for 2 Helicopters

Notes :-Not much scope of modernisation. Further not much juice would be left in the ships as by the time they would retire , they would be 35-40 years old.

4. Lupo-class frigate

Number :- 08 [4 transferred to Peru ,1 Striken , 1 in reserve , 2 in Active Service ]
Displacement:- 2500 Tons
Commissioned:- 1977

Propulsion:-CODOG scheme
- 2 x GE / Fiat LM2500 gas turbines 50,000 shp (37,000 kW)
- 2 x diesel engines Grandi Motori Trieste GMT A230-20 diesel engines 7,800 shp (5.8 MW)
- 4 x diesel engine generators Grandi Motori Trieste GMT 236SS, 3,000 kW (4,000 shp)

Armaments:-
- 8 x Otomat Mk 2 SSMs
- 1 x Mk.29 octuple launcher for Sea Sparrow/Aspide SAM
- 2 x Mark 32 triple torpedo tubes
- 1 x OTO Melara 127/54 mm gun
- 2 x OTO Melara Twin 40L70 DARDO compact gun

Aviation Facilities for 1 Helicopter

Notes :- Again not much space for upgrade.

 

[Tank131]

If the Thai HTMS Naresuan can fit an 8 cell mk41 behind the main gun i dont see why PN can fit 16 cell launcher (sylver or chinese/korean alternative) on F-22P.

 

[Sloth 22]

DW 3000F/H Frigate

Builders :- Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering (DSME), South Korea

Cost :- ~800 Million USD for 2 Frigates, 1 To be built in South Korea and 1 In Thailand.

Length :- 114m
Beam :- 13.8m
Draft :- 3.9m
Displacement:- 3700 Tons
Speed :- 30 Knots
Range :- 4000 Nautical Miles
Complement :- 136
Propulsion System :- CODAD

Sensors

Navigation Radar
Saab SeaGiraffe radar
Hull Mounted and Towed Array Sonar Suite by Atlas Electronik
2 x Radar Fire Control System
2 x Continuous Wave Illuminators
1 x Electro Optical Fire Control
2 x Target Designation Sight

Armaments

8 x SSM
1 Eight cell MK41 VLS
+ 8 x Canisters (max 32 ESSM) or
+ Vertical Launch Anti-submarine Rocket
1 x 76/62 Stealth Shield, Multi feeding system.
(Max range 40- 45 km with smart ammunition)
2 x 30 mm Guns (200 RPM) x CIWS (4,500 RPM).
2 x .50 inch (Range; 2 km)
2 x Trainable Triple tube torpedo launchers

Aviation Facilities for 1 Helicopter.

 

[ziaulislam]

older ships from British navy and Austrilian navy

 

[Penguin]

Only 2 options.
Chinese.
Turkish.

Pls explain why e.g. a South Korean vessel could not be an option? Or even a cooperation with Myanmar?

 

[monitor]

Pls explain why e.g. a South Korean vessel could not be an option? Or even a cooperation with Myanmar?

Cooperation with Myanmar? What the hell they offer which is better then turkey or China and old Italian or ausi/ British ships can offer?

 

[Penguin]

1. Horizon Class Destroyers and FREMM class Frigates are very new ships in the service and not likely to be sold so early.

Indeed, used sale is out of the question

2. Durand de la Penne-class
Number :- 02
Commissioned :- 1992
Displacement :- 4500-5600 Tons

Any rearming would be prohibitive for these 25 year old ships, which in their current state have some design flaws, leading to various vulnerabilities (including the high concentration of weapons and ordnance on a relatively small hull, requiring a large crew for effective fire and damage control, as well as a coverage gap in the rear as far as anti-missile weapons are concerned ).

3. Maestrale-class

Number :- 08 [7 Active , 1 Decommissioned]
Commissioned :- 1981
Displacement :- 3000 Tons

The Maestrale class too has some shortcomings. The most prominent is the air-defense layout: while the Lupo class has the four weapons distributed across the entire hull length, Maestrales, because of the double hangar, lacked this ability, resulting in all of the weapons systems being placed on the foredeck and midships. This arrangement leaves dangerous blind spots in the ships' defenses.
Also, since their entry in service, Maestrales were modernized with some minor programs. The equipment present on the Maestrale-class ships is almost equal to what it was in 1982, except for a pair of 20 mm guns installed as 'anti-fast vessels close defense', in 2005. Which means they really need serious modernization in order to simply remain relevant. It is highly questionable if that is warrented on a 35 year old ship.

4. Lupo-class frigate

Number :- 08 [4 transferred to Peru ,1 Striken , 1 in reserve , 2 in Active Service ]
Displacement:- 2500 Tons
Commissioned:- 1977

Those remaining with Italy are actually Soldati class, i.e. newer ships than preceeding Lupo's now sold off to other countries, and originally built for Saddam's Iraq but never delivered and ultimately seized and put in Italian navy service in early 1990s. SO, while built in early 1980s (and in that sense old) they have seen relatively little mileage. However, all their ASW equipment has been removed for Italian navy service and they've since not seen modernization.

Cooperation with Myanmar? What the hell they offer which is better then turkey or China and old Italian or ausi/ British ships can offer?

NEW ships, with clear RCS-reduction by design, in both corvette and frigate range, suitable for adaptation to Pakistan Navy needs. As is, they don't need to be better than Chinese or Turkish ships. It all revolves around minimum necessary capability of the ship, required number of hulls and price.

Picture this (Kyan sittha class), with all Chinese armaments, Western/Chinese sensors of choice.

Displacement:

3,000 ton (estimated)
Length: 106 m (348 ft)
Beam: 13.5 m (44 ft)
Propulsion: CODAD, 4 × SEMT Pielstick 16 PA6 STC diesels, 5700 kW (7600+ hp @ 1084 rpm) each
Speed: 30 kn (56 km/h) estimated
Range: 3,800 mi (6,100 km) estimated

Armament:

• 8 x C-802 anti-ship missiles [Replace by C-802A, or C602]
  
• 6 x turret-mounted Igla SAM [replace by 8 round HQ10 launcher, or use with Pakistani MANPADS]
  
• 1 × Oto Melara 76 mm Super Rapid Canons [replace by H/PJ26 76 mm dual purpose gun]
  
• 3 x NG-18 6-barrel 30 mm CIWS guns [replace by Chinese version)
  
• ASW torpedoes [chinese YU-7 ASW torpedoes]
  
• Rocket Launchers, possibly ASW rockets or decoy rockets

Aircraft carried: 1 x Harbin Z-9 or Kamov Ka-27

Could well mount e.g. Umkhonto VL forward, replacing 1 gating and MANPADS launcher

Likewise UMS_Tabinshwehti corvette
Displacement:1,105 ton
Length: 77 m (253 ft)

You can give this a Chinese 76mm front and an 8-round HQ-10 rear (or 8 cell Umkhonto forward), with 2 30mm AK630 style Gatlings and 4 SSMs and 324mm torps.

@monitor: You doubted Myanmar, which I can imagine, as it is not the most obvious choice. However, I don't see you responding to the suggestiong of South Korea.

HDF-3000 mod

http://www.janes.com/article/64864/...her-details-of-philippine-navy-s-new-frigates

DW-3000H

DW-3000F

KDX-II

 

[fatman17]

Pls explain why e.g. a South Korean vessel could not be an option? Or even a cooperation with Myanmar?

3rd party technology transfer issues likely. most recent example of Turkish Altay MBT engine TOT transfer issue as Austria imposed sanctions on turkey for its 2016 coup. SK does use western components as nothing is 100% indigenous anymore. I'm not aware of Myanmar shipbuilding efforts.