Deteriorating situation in Nagorno-Karabakh

[Infoman]

But caucasians aren't Middle Eastern. Even in the Middle East people vary differently. For example there is not much similarity between a Saudi Arabian and a Persian.

Levantine Arabs Syrians, Lebanese and Palestinians are truly Caucasian as many of them resemble Greeks, Italians and Spanish people more than they resemble a Saudi or Yemeni.

 

[F117]

- Here you see Azerbaijan was helped by: Turkey, Afghans, Chechens, Israel, Pakistan, Russia.

- They failed to defeat a tiny Armenia:

- And they lost a lot of people!

Why are atheist pan turks bad at fighting?

 

[KingMamba]

@al-Hasani Iran only supports Armenia because Azerbaijan has territorial claims on Iran. Armenia just wants that land because it has an Armenian population but the land belongs to the Azeris.

- Here you see Azerbaijan was helped by: Turkey, Afghans, Chechens, Israel, Pakistan, Russia.

- They failed to defeat a tiny Armenia:

- And they lost a lot of people!

Why are atheist pan turks bad at fighting?

It is always easier to defend in war.

 

[al-Hasani]

Caucasians are not Middle Eastern but they have more ties with the ME than with India thousands of KM away. On every level. That is undeniable.

Actually Saudi Arabians are most closely tied to people of Levant, Iraq and Yemen. Every genetic test shows this. That is not strange since all those 4 regions/areas/countries have a closely tied Semitic past that dates back thousands of years and moreover they are neighbors and inhabit the same region of the world. Also to Southern Europe. Look at the genetic results shown by National Geographic. Since Neolithic times.

@Infoman

The reason for that is because the first inhabitants of Southern Europe came from the Middle East what is today the Arab world. That was how farming etc. was spread. Later the Semitic Phonecians colonized large parts of Northern Africa and Southern Europe (many cities were founded by them) and then came the Punics and Carthiagians (Hannibal belonged to them) who were descendants of Phoenicians who mixed with the local people who were mostly Berber who are related with Arabs and other Semitic people and belong to the same language family. Then most recently came the Arabs who inhabited Iberia for 900 years and Malta, Sicily, Cyprus etc.

Most importantly both Arabs and Mediterranean/Southern Europeans are Caucasian people. Only difference is the pigmentation but that depends on the individual.
Even more importantly all the people of that region are tied to the Neolithic expansion out from the Middle East to Europe 10.000 + years ago way before Semitic, Indo-Iranian, Turkic, ethinc group x or y existed. So that's hardly strange. Visit forums that deal with this or read about genetics if you don't believe me. It's quite interesting and I have for a long time been interested in that field.
The only thing that sperates those two people are the non-Caucasian admixture for instance Mongoloid, Negroid etc. which can vary from region to region.

Anyway back to topic.

 

[usernameless]

this has been stated before, but i find it ironic how the Iran state behaves like the defender of the islamic faith, yet isn't shy to support the Armenians against... it's own fellow shia believers, not even sunni, but shia. absolutely astounding. As much as i would like to see Turkey and Iran co-operate in the region, this conflict is one of the main things that make it impossible. To me it seems Iran is still afraid of the Azeri/Turkics, thus it chooses to co-operate with orthodox. And as far as i know, there are still some Azeri inside Iran who are so loyal to Iran, doesn;t make sense at all.

 

[rmi5]

It is not matter of Panturkism. It is matter of giving a piece of cake back to Iran. Azerbaijan understands it is either Iran or them so they are going to choose for themselves.

I agree that the problem is not only about panturkism, although, Pan-turkist ideas are very strong in Azerbaijan, in both Guney Azerbaijan and Azerbaijan Republic. mullahs are afraid of two things, separatist ideas, and turning Azerbaijan to a secular role model for rest of the Iranians.

 

[usernameless]

- Here you see Azerbaijan was helped by: Turkey, Afghans, Chechens, Israel, Pakistan, Russia.

- They failed to defeat a tiny Armenia:

- And they lost a lot of people!

Why are atheist pan turks bad at fighting?

last time i checked, Turkics ruled Iranian lands for a long time, just stating facts.

 

[al-Hasani]

@rmi5

@atatwolf

@haman10

What kind of solution do you see to this conflict and do you agree that Russia is a key element here? For the solution I mean.

Lastly do Azeris and Armenians really hate each other? I know that Turks and Armenians have their problems for obvious reasons but is it really that integrated? Is there no way out aside from a military solution to the conflict? If that happens what then?

Lastly do you have a good documentary about the conflict? Preferably 30 minutes/ 1 hour long at most? I mean so one can watch it on Youtube.

@al-Hasani Iran only supports Armenia because Azerbaijan has territorial claims on Iran. Armenia just wants that land because it has an Armenian population but the land belongs to the Azeris.



It is always easier to defend in war.

Ok, thanks for that explanation. But is it not more complicated than this? Surely it must be.

 

[INDIC]

Indo-European is a lose term. Just a linguistic term. Not a racial term. In terms of culture, physical appearance, history, cuisine and basically everything else people of the ME are more tied with each other than some people living thousands of KM away. You know it, I know it and everyone else familiar with the ME knows it. Lastly far from all Indians even speak an Indo-European language. Nearly half speak a Dravidian language. Most Indians have nothing to do with the proto Indo-Europeans who roamed the Central Asian steppes 3000-4000 years ago. Genetically that has been confirmed. Many Africans speak French and English as their first language. Does that make them European? Whole of Latin America too speak either Spanish or Portugeuse and have adopted their culture, religion with local influences. The vast majority of them are not Spaniards or Portugeuse and very view who are, are of a pure European stock. The majority are of local stock (native Indians). That's the reality.

Of course he has every right to comment. Who said otherwise? I just found it strange and I have seen similar behavior among Indian users that are taking the side of country x or y in the Middle East that they have no ties to whatsoever.

I agree with your entire post except the genetic test part. Indians have genetic similarities with Eurasian people(East Europeans through haplogroup R1a) and it goes with almost entire population of India.

 

[al-Hasani]

hehe,u know quite a lot of indian states for an arab

I know them all actually. Also a lot about your history. I wished you Indians had a better understanding of the ME and its ancient history. Would solve a lot of trolling discussions.

But trust me I have no problem with India at all. Like the cuisine. And no matter how much you and the Pakistanis deny it (like we Arabs and the Jews) we share a lot in common. More than we want to admit. Same with Arabs and Iranians. But the tribalism in all of us just makes the world more complicated than it really is.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

This is what I gathered from Chinese resources. China, Iran and Russia has stake in preventing Pan Turkism. Iran is at the foremost front line against Pan Turkism, due to the fact that Azerbaijani is 16% of Iranian population.

A salient fact is Azerbaijani is the dominant minority in Iran, way over represented. Ayatollah Khamenei is himself Azerbaijani and Iranian Azerbaijani are the one who keep attacking outer Azerbaijan in order to preserve Iranian integrity.

Pan Turkism also affect China's security given that this is the ideology of Uighur separatists. The Uighurs receive support from the west as well as Turkey. The day Iran got broken up into ethnic lines, is the day China will see ever more trouble. China will try very hard to preserve Iran.

 

[al-Hasani]

I agree with your entire post except the genetic test part. Indians have genetic similarities with Eurasian people(East Europeans through haplogroup R1a) and it goes with almost entire population of India.

Mostly in the North. And that haplogroup has nothing to do with ethnic group x or y because they all predate those ethnic groups and languages. Those haplogroups are almost all, in the case of R at least, over 10.000 years old. R1 and Rb is also common in the Arab world, KSA included. More so R1b in fact that is tied with Western Europeans especially (Brits, Spaniards, Celts etc.) Does that make us Western Europeans. Surely not. Culture and actual ancestry are two distinct things. As I said look at the example of Africa, Latin America and most of South Asia. There is nothing wrong with this because at the end of the day we are all related and those haplogroups all descend from the oldest haplgroups that appeared somewhere in what is now today Southern Africa and Eastern Africa. Languages are human constructions. There is nothing stopping us from creating a new widespread language and culture connected to that language and even a religion. Then we can get millions of people from the whole world adopt all this and in 1000 years time, if it still exists, we can call them x or y people.

 

[Infoman]

Caucasians are not Middle Eastern but they have more ties with the ME than with India thousands of KM away. On every level. That is undeniable.

Actually Saudi Arabians are most closely tied to people of Levant, Iraq and Yemen. Every genetic test shows this. That is not strange since all those 4 regions/areas/countries have a closely tied Semitic past that dates back thousands of years and moreover they are neighbors and inhabit the same region of the world. Also to Southern Europe. Look at the genetic results shown by National Geographic. Since Neolithic times.

@Infoman

The reason for that is because the first inhabitants of Southern Europe came from the Middle East what is today the Arab world. That was how farming etc. was spread. Later the Semitic Phonecians colonized large parts of Northern Africa and Southern Europe (many cities were founded by them) and then came the Punics and Carthiagians (Hannibal belonged to them) who were descendants of Phoenicians who mixed with the local people who were mostly Berber who are related with Arabs and other Semitic people and belong to the same language family. Then most recently came the Arabs who inhabited Iberia for 900 years and Malta, Sicily, Cyprus etc.

Most importantly both Arabs and Mediterranean/Southern Europeans are Caucasian people. Only difference is the pigmentation but that depends on the individual.
Even more importantly all the people of that region are tied to the Neolithic expansion out from the Middle East to Europe 10.000 + years ago way before Semitic, Indo-Iranian, Turkic, ethinc group x or y existed. So that's hardly strange. Visit forums that deal with this or read about genetics if you don't believe me. It's quite interesting and I have for a long time been interested in that field.

Anyway back to topic.

Scientifically Arabs are grouped as caucasion

I agree with your entire post except the genetic test part. Indians have genetic similarities with Eurasian people(East Europeans through haplogroup R1a) and it goes with almost entire population of India.

With all due respect an eastern European polish or Russian with blond hair and blue eyes look NOTHING like an Indian with almost black skin. Many Indians resemble black people more than they do eastern Europeans. Most of the Indians I have seen in my life have very dark features.

 

[rmi5]

@rmi5

@atatwolf

@haman10

What kind of solution do you see to this conflict and do you agree that Russia is a key element here? For the solution I mean.

Lastly do Azeris and Armenians really hate each other? I know that Turks and Armenians have their problems for obvious reasons but is it really that integrated? Is there no way out outside of conflict or solving this issue?

Russia has an important role. without Russian support, Armenia cannot live more than one week. Azerbaijan's economy is ten times bigger than them with a high growth rate, and also consider that Azerbaijan population is more than three times of Armenia with much more better weaponry. I think that's why Azerbaijan government has tried to increase ties with Russians. After all, Russians, only seek for their interests, and we can negotiate with them.
yes, we do hate Armenians and vice versa. there is almost no difference between Azeri turks, and turkish turks, and we consider their problem as ours and vice versa. we have the same language, more precisely speaking 86-90% the same, and only difference is about the sect of the religion that the majority follow, which this difference is faded as people have got more secular these days.
Azeris will not be satisfied by anything less than getting Karabakh back, although the whole Armenia is built on our stolen lands, but the Karabakh, is the minimum of our demands. Political solutions can be reached, if they accept these fundamentals, otherwise a war would happen in the long term.

 

[INDIC]

Mostly in the North. South, not so much elsewhere. And that haplogroup has nothing to do with ethnic group x or y because they all predate those ethnic groups and languages. R1 and Rb is also common in the Arab world, KSA included. More R1b that is tied with Western Europeans actually. Those that make us Indians or Western Europeans?

Geneticist use the term ANI(ancestral North Indians) for Eurasian ancestry of Indians, recent genetic tests prove every community in India, even isolated tribal nomadic communities have them while ASI(Ancestral South Indians) is referred to the races entirely native to India. All people in North and South have mix of ANI and ASI.