Featured Delhi Muslims fear they will never see justice for religious riot atrocities

[magra]

Our first goal should be to bring the whole of South Asia under one nation.

But you just said that nation state is fake.

If you indeed want South Asia to be under nation, then follow these steps
1. Study science
2. Invent a time machine
3. Go back to 1946.
4. Convince Mr. Jinnah against partition

There is no other way to achieve your mission. So get to work.

 

[Drizzt]

Indian Constitution gives the right to every Muslim to consider himself Muslim first. Constitution gives the right to every Indian to follow his religion and also propagate his religion.

If Indian Muslims have a desire to convert fellow citizens to Islam. It is both constitutional and legal. Don't let anyone deny you your constitutional rights.

Article 25 says "all persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right to freely profess, practice, and propagate religion subject to public order, morality and health." Further, Article 26 says that all denominations can manage their own affairs in matters of religion. All these rights are subject to be regulated by the State.

 

[HalfMoon]

Indian Constitution gives the right to every Muslim to consider himself Muslim first. Constitution gives the right to every Indian to follow his religion and also propagate his religion.

If Indian Muslims have a desire to convert fellow citizens to Islam. It is both constitutional and legal. Don't let anyone deny you your constitutional rights.

Article 25 says "all persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right to freely profess, practice, and propagate religion subject to public order, morality and health." Further, Article 26 says that all denominations can manage their own affairs in matters of religion. All these rights are subject to be regulated by the State.

Our right comes from the holy Quran. No one can deny this right that has been given to us by Allah (swt).

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Thanks for sharing the video. The origins of a slogan don't matter. I certainly don't imagine some sort of a goddess when I come across the words 'Bharat Mata', the visual is usually just our country and its people. It's more of a symbolic thing. Again as I mentioned, keep it simple: it's simply victory to motherland India. And even among Muslims, people are divided on that: some Muslims chant it, some don't. If we exclude Muslims, no other community has any problems as far as I know (incl Christians).

Do you know the origins of "Sieg Heil" utilised in Nazi Germany?

It's disingenuous to suggest that any old slogan means only what you interpret it to mean, as opposed to its actual historical contextualised connotation.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

Do you know the origins of "Sieg Heil" utilised in Nazi Germany?

It's disingenuous to suggest that any old slogan means only what you interpret it to mean, as opposed to its actual historical contextualised connotation.

yeah, the indian hindus here are being disingenuous when they make arguments they are making. its like asking the german jews a hundred years from now to say Sieg Heil after german christians try to repackage it as something secular. no german jew is going to accept it.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

@jamahir is actually a person who is very progressive in his thoughts actually. There will of course be things on which we might not agree on, just like it might be with you and me. In many ways, he is a staunch communist more than an extreme religious person. He is one of the few Indian Muslims on this forum that I can easily talk with without either of us getting insulted or something. Always very civil in his arguments as well.

He is one of the very best posters on the forum all round

 

[HalfMoon]

Do you identify yourself as Indian?
If not, then your opinion is not needed.

I identify myself as a Muslim and Muslim only.

India is a fake state and needs to go.

He is one of the very best posters on the forum all round

@jamahir is Crème de la crème.

He knows how to package and deliver the message of Allah (swt).

It would be very difficult for an ordinary Muslim like me to match his finesse.

 

[magra]

cutting off ties with muslims isnt how it works in Islam. if a muslim is doing something wrong, then fellow muslims should advise. currently Taliban are doing some wrong things, like denying women education. but that isnt enough to go to war with them over it. they should be advised and when Afghanistan has some peace then things can change for people there. right now they are in war mode ever since the Soviet invasion.

So one who considers oneself Muslim, however wrong, would be supported by you? Then why dont you support those muslims who are running the Afghan govt at the moment?

Quran was revealed, not written. it is the word of God. the entire framework for how to deal with life and future developments/innovations are all accounted for. Prophet Muhammed himself said a time will come when literacy will be everywhere, people will travel from one end of the world to the other within hours, invention of cars, etc. Islam is pro-science and Allah has instructed us to investigate the world and how it all works. Muslims didnt get to the peak of civilisation (governance, science, math, technology, etc) in spite of Islam. they get there because of Islam. the religion takes into account everything.

However, is it not a fact, that Muslims reached the peak in the initial centuries. Since they failed to adapt later and stagnated, they have since lost that peak.

Aaja where? I am right here in Hyderabad (Deccan).

so you were only 'conquered' by the Iron Man of India

 

[jamahir]

i have already said you are a murtad.

And you sir, are a potential CIA agent.

on top of that, you still havent denounced Stalin and Mao, your commie heros.

When did I say I like Stalin ?

About Mao I think we in South Asia need someone like him or like Lenin or even Nasser and Gaddafi.

He is one of the very best posters on the forum all round

@jamahir is Crème de la crème.

He knows how to package and deliver the message of Allah (swt).

It would be very difficult for an ordinary Muslim me to match his finesse.

Well, I am honored to read that about me, TBH even from HalfMoon.

 

[magra]

Indian Constitution gives the right to every Muslim to consider himself Muslim first. Constitution gives the right to every Indian to follow his religion and also propagate his religion.

If Indian Muslims have a desire to convert fellow citizens to Islam. It is both constitutional and legal. Don't let anyone deny you your constitutional rights.

Article 25 says "all persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right to freely profess, practice, and propagate religion subject to public order, morality and health." Further, Article 26 says that all denominations can manage their own affairs in matters of religion. All these rights are subject to be regulated by the State.

Can you please prove your first line "Indian Constitution gives the right to every Muslim to consider himself Muslim first" by citing the relevant section of Indian Constitution.
I have objection to the rest of your statements.

 

[jamahir]

However, is it not a fact, that Muslims reached the peak in the initial centuries. Since they failed to adapt later and stagnated, they have since lost that peak.

Yeah, the Islamic Golden Age, and then the loss because of uneducated priests. Priests who never were part of Islam.

 

[magra]

Do you know the origins of "Sieg Heil" utilised in Nazi Germany?

It's disingenuous to suggest that any old slogan means only what you interpret it to mean, as opposed to its actual historical contextualised connotation.

Do you know how Swastik (a Hindu religious symbol) was used by Nazi Germany?
Did Swastik used in nefarious context by Nazis mean anything sacred there? No.
For the same reason, it is banned (or considered rude) to display Swastik in Germany.

So usage and interpretation matters.

 

[magra]

I identify myself as a Muslim and Muslim only.

This statement qualifies you as an Islamist.

India is a fake state and needs to go.

If you are indeed an Indian citizen, then this statement qualifies you as a traitor.

@jamahir is Crème de la crème.

He knows how to package and deliver the message of Allah (swt).

It would be very difficult for an ordinary Muslim me to match his finesse.

Indeed, you are pretty ordinary and insignificant in stature before him.

About Mao I think we in South Asia need someone like him or like Lenin or even Nasser and Gaddafi.

Cant comment on others, but isnt Mao responsible for large scale famines, deaths and poverty in China? It was only after the new leader came along in 1970 and changed a lot of policies did China actually start developing.

 

[padamchen]

Thank you.



You are correct. Many "kattar Musalmaan" types tend not to apply sensibility and context.

I have tried to convince @PakistaniAtBahrain and one or two others here that progressive Muslim researchers and leaders in the past and now have tried to understand the context in which Islamic scripts were written and how to apply them in current situation.

For example, an Egyptian woman by name Amna Nosseir who was member of parliament and also a teacher researched and found that the burqa was really a Jewish culture garment that somehow found place in certain Muslim societies and got propagated to current time. The burqa has nothing to do with Islam.

Another example which I quoted to PakistaniAtBahrain was of Muammar Gaddafi who was a 'Hafiz', meaning one who has memorized the Quran and has understood it. And he was a socialist ( though not a communist ). There is no contradiction in being a Hafiz and being a modern socialist because Islam was a progressive movement in a line of progressive movements and thought, before Islam and after Islam.

If anything, PakistaniAtBahrain can find himself courted by Western intelligence agencies who want to subvert progressive Muslim movements and individuals. This has happened for decades, whether it was the in-Egypt-started Muslim Brotherhood or the FSA in Syria now.



So you don't want to go to any proposed "Homeland of the Zoroastrians" ? At least enclaves which are composed of emigrated Zoroastrians and reverted Kurds and Yazidis ?

What exactly went on in those Zoroastrian functions you hosted ?



Hmm, will have to ponder on that.



Yes, different streams then using different slogans. Like I said earlier that it was an officer in the INA who thought up of "Jai Hind".

Why is what Zoroastrians do around the world to reclaim their blood and soil (the faith having been saved and preserved) in any way relevant to a discussion between Indians on Indian issues?

Are you of the belief that the only Zoroastrians in the world today are all of Indian lineage?

That is far from true.

Tomorrow even when Iran reverts (not if), the Parsis will always be Indian.

Many of our kids will marry and settle in Iran.

Many Iranian kids will marry and settle in India.

Do you want to bet whether India opens her doors to Iranians once they are a Zoroastrian nation again?

Don't.

You know you will lose.

Cheers, Doc

 

[HalfMoon]

This statement qualifies you as an Islamist.

Your tags are immaterial.

There are only two categories of people - Believers and non-believers.

If you are indeed an Indian citizen, then this statement qualifies you as a traitor.

I am patriotic towards and for the cause of Islam. Nothing else matters.