Defending Militancy: Why they kill civilians, attack the state

[Chogy]

So by your logic, even though I am a peaceful, hardworking, charity giving, human and animal caring Hindu who has done no harm to anybody, I have no chances of meeting Allah. The taliban soldier who maims, kills and loots and murders innocent men, women and babies on the other hand and who professes to be a Muslim...he is guaranteed a place with Allah ?

I think this is important to dissect...

I am Christian. There are fundie Christians who tell people "You're going to hell because you don't believe in Jesus." I'll ask them -

"What about the lovely Samoan Woman in the South Pacific in the year 100? She prayed to her Creator every day, brought joy and love to her village. Was kind to everyone, charitable, and died in peace surrounded by her large family? Going to Hell?"

"Yep straight to Hell"

Ohh kay. Simple logic tells us she is NOT going to Hell. I work hard within my own faith to change this type of fundamental notion. It's poison. The Abrahamic religions all tend to do this. "My way is right, you are doomed to hellfire." Not all of them, but too many.

No religion has a lock on God, or the path to Heaven. I feel that Jesus holds the keys, but I am not arrogant enough to claim that he'd reject the Samoan Woman because she prayed the wrong way. We all need to work on this. Buddhists and other Asian religions are much better in this regard than those of Abraham.

 

[Zarvan]

i was 101% sure that this would be your reply coz ive heard it countless times on the internet

Listen up man
its not Amreeka or Kafir that tells us to ogle at females
they dont tell us to break the traffic rules
they dont tell us to snatch mobiles and shoot the victim aswell
they dont tell us to do corruption on the tiniest level from simple Fruit Vender with expired Vegetables or the Milk man with 4L water in 1L Milk

and tell u what our Leaders how bad they may dont tell us to do these either[/QUOTEI know these are not told by America but many many other things they do it has to be both ways we have to follow Islam and also take on the kufr

 

[muse]

It seems instructions to the "order takers" is to point at Amrika to evade the questions raised which bring to question the right of the insurgent sympathizers to subvert.

 

[lonelyone]

I think this is important to dissect...

I am Christian. There are fundie Christians who tell people "You're going to hell because you don't believe in Jesus." I'll ask them -

"What about the lovely Samoan Woman in the South Pacific in the year 100? She prayed to her Creator every day, brought joy and love to her village. Was kind to everyone, charitable, and died in peace surrounded by her large family? Going to Hell?"

"Yep straight to Hell"

Ohh kay. Simple logic tells us she is NOT going to Hell. I work hard within my own faith to change this type of fundamental notion. It's poison. The Abrahamic religions all tend to do this. "My way is right, you are doomed to hellfire." Not all of them, but too many.

No religion has a lock on God, or the path to Heaven. I feel that Jesus holds the keys, but I am not arrogant enough to claim that he'd reject the Samoan Woman because she prayed the wrong way. We all need to work on this. Buddhists and other Asian religions are much better in this regard than those of Abraham.

I'm sorry, but the overwhelming narrative that I hear among knowledgable Muslims (I mean clergy, but Islam has no clergy), and what I've heard all my life, is that every person will be judged on his actions one-by-one, and whether he goes to hell/heaven depends on that, and Allah is The Most Just, so there is no saying "Hindus will go to hell", etc. Maybe you should stop listening to Wahhabi Mullahs, because Wahhabis are the most damned stupid, intolerant and hypocritical monsters I have ever seen. Which is why they are hated around the world by other Muslims, but since Saudi Arabia has Uncle Sam behind it there is no chance for it to disappear anytime soon.

 

[Zarvan]

I'm sorry, but the overwhelming narrative that I hear among knowledgable Muslims (I mean clergy, but Islam has no clergy), and what I've heard all my life, is that every person will be judged on his actions one-by-one, and whether he goes to hell/heaven depends on that, and Allah is The Most Just, so there is no saying "Hindus will go to hell", etc. Maybe you should stop listening to Wahhabi Mullahs, because Wahhabis are the most damned stupid, intolerant and hypocritical monsters I have ever seen. Which is why they are hated around the world by other Muslims, but since Saudi Arabia has Uncle Sam behind it there is no chance for it to disappear anytime soon.

Mr ALLAH has clearly said in the Quran he will only accept Islam so if anyone wants to go to heaven he has to be a Muslim its not about being a Wahabi its about the order of ALLAH sir Go read Quran ALLAH will judge but he will you through the orders which he has given to you in form of Quran and Sunnah we have to follow that sir

 

[Chogy]

I'm sorry, but the overwhelming narrative that I hear among knowledgable Muslims (I mean clergy, but Islam has no clergy), and what I've heard all my life, is that every person will be judged on his actions one-by-one,

Mr ALLAH has clearly said in the Quran he will only accept Islam so if anyone wants to go to heaven he has to be a Muslim its not about being a Wahabi its about the order of ALLAH sir Go read Quran ALLAH will judge but he will you through the orders which he has given to you in form of Quran and Sunnah we have to follow that sir

This is brilliant... we have right here a microcosm of intolerance on display. Lonelyone rightly claims the correct and mainstream view that "Who are we to presume who Allah will accept into Paradise?" and Zarvan displays the typical fundamental arrogant view that "only MUSLIMS will go to heaven."

So tell me please, Mr. Zarvan - what is the fate of the Samoan Woman I described? I'll change the years she lived so as to be post-Muhammed AND post-Jesus.

"What about the lovely Samoan Woman in the South Pacific in the year 1000? She prayed to her Creator every day, brought joy and love to her village. Was kind to everyone, charitable, and died in peace surrounded by her large family? Going to Hell?"

 

[Mech]

Chogy, their line of reasoning is not so different from our Pentecostals or evangelicals. I came across a similiar reference in some of their literature meant for kids as well. Anyhow, i never bothered to confront them about it.

 

[Developereo]

This is brilliant... we have right here a microcosm of intolerance on display. Lonelyone rightly claims the correct and mainstream view that "Who are we to presume who Allah will accept into Paradise?" and Zarvan displays the typical fundamental arrogant view that "only MUSLIMS will go to heaven."

It's been a while, but I think there is an escape clause somewhere that reconciles the two views: upon death, when the soul is about to depart the body, every person is visited by the angel Gabriel (Jibrael) who invites the person to accept Allah. I am not sure if it's a refusable offer or an invitation. Also not sure what happens if the person declines.

 

[President Camacho]

Mr ALLAH has clearly said in the Quran he will only accept Islam so if anyone wants to go to heaven he has to be a Muslim its not about being a Wahabi its about the order of ALLAH sir Go read Quran ALLAH will judge but he will you through the orders which he has given to you in form of Quran and Sunnah we have to follow that sir

But there's no way one can be a Muslim unless one reads Kalima... or to some extent Quran. Isn't that right?

So I guess anyone in this world who never got to read that, is bound to go to hell. Including the still-born infants, people born before the Prophet, and those who preferred to serve humanity and not a religion, such as Mother Theresa?

 

[Ahmad]

But there's no way one can be a Muslim unless one reads Kalima... or to some extent Quran. Isn't that right?

So I guess anyone in this world who never got to read that, is bound to go to hell. Including the still-born infants, people born before the Prophet, and those who preferred to serve humanity and not a religion, such as Mother Theresa?

He will tell you that befor Hazrat Muhammad(PBUH), there were other prophets such as Isa(AS)-->Jesus, Musa(AS) etc, so as long as somebody accepted those prophets then he would have gone to Behesht. But my question is, what if somebody was in India while Jesus was in Palestine, how could he reach him to know the truth?

---------- Post added at 08:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 PM ----------

And secondly, somebody who was born in muslim family was bound to be raised as muslim, while another person who was born in non muslim family was raised as non muslim, considering this fact, should the non mulsims have less responsibility?

 

[Chogy]

It's been a while, but I think there is an escape clause somewhere that reconciles the two views: upon death, when the soul is about to depart the body, every person is visited by the angel Gabriel (Jibrael) who invites the person to accept Allah. I am not sure if it's a refusable offer or an invitation. Also not sure what happens if the person declines.

Interesting... so in theory, one can go about their lives being despicable, knowing you'll get a chance at eternal life AFTER you croak?

 

[Developereo]

Interesting... so in theory, one can go about their lives being despicable, knowing you'll get a chance at eternal life AFTER you croak?

Well, I guess everybody gets a chance to repent. And presumably Gabriel knows if you are earnest or just faking it.

 

[Developereo]

Reminds me of a joke I heard long time back (applies here also):

This guy dies and goes to heaven. By chance he meets a good friend who offers to show him around. As they are walking past a wall, his friend starts whispering and tells him to lower his voice, too.

"What's on the other side of the wall?", he asks.
"Oh, it's Catholics. They think they are the only ones here."

 

[President Camacho]

He will tell you that befor Hazrat Muhammad(PBUH), there were other prophets such as Isa(AS)-->Jesus, Musa(AS) etc, so as long as somebody accepted those prophets then he would have gone to Behesht. But my question is, what if somebody was in India while Jesus was in Palestine, how could he reach him to know the truth?

---------- Post added at 08:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 PM ----------

And secondly, somebody who was born in muslim family was bound to be raised as muslim, while another person who was born in non muslim family was raised as non muslim, considering this fact, should the non mulsims have less responsibility?

I think the problem is, I take words very carefully, with the idea that no two statements can ever mean the same thing, and that no statement can mean two different things.

Either I am needlessly careful, or may be they don't value their words.

Someone comes in with the ID "Zaravan" and then talks of God as the eternal supreme being... 'guess I took him too seriously.

 

[ashokdeiva]

It's been a while, but I think there is an escape clause somewhere that reconciles the two views: upon death, when the soul is about to depart the body, every person is visited by the angel Gabriel (Jibrael) who invites the person to accept Allah. I am not sure if it's a refusable offer or an invitation. Also not sure what happens if the person declines.

About the bold part, why does Gab visit once the man is dead, can he not appear a little earlier in life and make sure that the man gets converted to ISLAM, come on man we are talking about doing good and bad deads when you and I are alive and what is the chance that one posses to go to heaven or hell(both place are hypotetical and no one really knows that they exist) when he is done in this carbon form