Defence talks with Saudi Arabia begin

[Luftwaffe]

we are completely barred from latest technology from the west so our knowledge is now vintage. while we are blowing up schools and killing polio teams, their universities are pumping out scholars, doctors and scientists.

The reason for it is we kept ourselves from these latest technologies west would have sold you anything provided we showed them hard cash, we have reached to point where we can't even afford Chinese technologies that's how we have gone vintage even Chinese were vintage without external help they've got to the point being advanced enough in various fields.

 

[Gentelman]

JF-17 highly improbable
Al Khalid have chances
Drones have chances
maybe Saudis realized we are only one who can help them acquiring nukes if ever needed so they woke up trying to make strategic partnership in case Iran test something in long future so they can at least get help or blueprints from Pakistan.
Maybe Pakistan refusal to statements like KSA can buy nukes from Pakistan make them woke up……

 

[rockstar08]

KSa need Islamabad as much as Islamabad needs them , stop living in fantasy world that we Pakistan army has nothing to offer , no matter what kind training they get , still PA is battle proved army , and their experience is guerrilla warfare is much more than many other top militaries ..

 

[jupiter2007]

Many defense and non-defense projects and purchases of big ticket items were in the pipeline but due to lack of funds they were all put on hold. Maybe Saudi's are willing to provide funds for the development projects.

Pakistan Army:-
*Development of Tank Al-Khalid 2 delayed due to lack of funds.
*Contract for 17 T-129 Turkey Gunships was supposed to be signed in 2011 but it's put on hold due to lack of funds. [Turkish government doesn't want to provide these on soft-loan.]

Pakistan Air Force:-
*Purchase of Mid to High altitude SAM/air defense system has been delayed few times.
Pakistan still interested in Hong Qi-18 (HQ-18)/S-300/SA-12A.
*Contract for 36 FC-20 was supposed to be signed back in 2009 but still NO official news about this. [This might not be viable option since Jf-17 block 2 is already in production and J-31 "Falcon Hawk," is maturing faster then earlier expected]
*Jf-17 development for block 2 and block 3 delayed due to funds, also production slow down to 6-8 per year, and Pakistan negotiation with Chinese for soft loan to continue the development of block3.
*Purchase of 36 F-16 Block 52 was reduced to 18 only.
*Lack of funds to Modernize Light/High-lift Transport fleet. Pakistan is in need of 6-8 modern planes (newer C-130, Chinese Y-9, CASA CN-235/295). recently Pakistan request Australia to sell 5 used C-130 but Australia decided to sell these to Indonesia, deal was finalized on July 2013.

Pakistan Navy:-
*Purchase of U214s submarine from Germany was cancelled due to lack of funds.
*F-22P Frigate contract with Chinese was delayed six years. It was finally signed in 2006. Pakistan is still waiting to sign a deal for Chinese high-end frigate, NO contract was signed for this.
*Also, Pakistan supposed to sign a deal with Turkish Frigate but due to funds it was put on hold.
*No formal contract has been signed for purchase of 6 Chinese submarines.
*Out of SIX, 4 Old Tariq-class frigates should be decommission but there is not enough funds to find a replacement for them. Pakistan is going to or already has sign a contract for 4 more modified F-22P frigate from China.

I haven't even mentioned any non-defense projects. We need to stop comparing ourselves with India. Let's first compare ourselves with Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Iran, etc. There is no long term planning in Pakistan. Lack of professionalism, lack of development in cities and coastal area, lack of development in Gwader and Pasni area.

I don't expect more from Saudi's, maybe they will take Nawaz Sharif back after his government fail in 2014.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The reason for it is we kept ourselves from these latest technologies west would have sold you anything provided we showed them hard cash, we have reached to point where we can't even afford Chinese technologies that's how we have gone vintage even Chinese were vintage without external help they've got to the point being advanced enough in various fields.

true to the most part but do remember that Americans blocked our purchases from Europe even when we were paying hard cash

our students are barred from advanced physics, chemistry and mathematics studies. we cant buy high end computers, integrated circuitry and in many cases India also played its part.

Saudis on the other hand have it all in their way so most likely we would assist them in nuclear field under the approval and protection of the Nuclear watchdog there is a vast application of its field apart from blowing up cities and countries.

so true you are about not even being able to buy chinese stuff (J-10 biggest example, Chinese are willing to park them next day to an air port of our choosing if we can pay them, its really a third class beggar attitude that we want free thing and then more money to run them too... there is a limit to everything )

I want Matial Law back, not half hearted and apologetic martial law of General Musharraf but that of General Zia...make the entire political lot a shaheed. even kill their pets and their servants
enough of this feudocracy ..democratic revenge has f'ed us to the core. yes yes I know he is blamed for the sectarianism and religious terror today but if he was alive he would have made a mother Trisa out of Mula Fuz Lulla...

 

[Luftwaffe]

true to the most part but do remember that Americans blocked our purchases from Europe even when we were paying hard cash

our students are barred from advanced physics, chemistry and mathematics studies. we cant buy high end computers, integrated circuitries and in many cases India also played its part.

Saudis on the other hand have it all in their way so most likely we would assist them in nuclear field under the approval and protection of the Nuclear watchdog there is a wast application of its field apart from blowing up cities and countries.

so true you are about not even being able to buy chinese stuff (J-10 biggest example, Chinese are willing to park them next day to an air port of our choosing if we can pay them, its really a third class beggar attitude that we want free thing and then more money to run them too... there is a limit to everything )

I want Matial Law back, not half hearted and apologetic martial law of General Musharraf but that of General Zia...make the entire political lot a shaheed. even kill their pets and their servants
enough of this feudocracy ..democratic revenge has f'ed us to the core. yes yes I know he is blamed for the sectarianism and religious terror today but if he was alive he would have made a mother Trisa out of Mula Fuz Lulla...

Powerful establishment Head coupled with a hard working political party such as PTI and being neutral tell PTI keep certain things to Armed Forces. All other parties are tried and failed PPP/MQM can't even eradicate layari gangs they are Naahal for any future fed and provincial govts even on district levels. Political party like PTI can then focus on only and only economy rest is non of their business.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well , there are lot of areas of mutual understanding

a) Next generation JF17 thunder
b) Joint Production of Al Khalid Tanks or next variant
c) F22P frigate order
d) Perhaps a mutual understanding for defensive pact to promote regional security (Highly likely)
e) Perhaps offer of F15 fighter jets to Pakistan , while Saudia might be going for Euro fighter upgrade
f) May be support on Kashmir issue from Saudia on international front
g) May be Join interest in Awacs platform
h) May be - STRATEGIC talks for nuclear weapons or nuclear plants
i) May be joint research on Stealth platform
j) May be interest in Pakistani Nuclear Submarine program
k) May be interest to jointly produce a helicopter ?

We have long ties with Saudia ,since saudia have a very long border and territory they can use a regional aircraft like JF17 Thunder


NEW ERA of stragetic partnership

This has good zing to it I like it

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Hello everybody. I'm Khalifa. For those of you who don't know me, I happen to be a Saudi.

we got nothing worth offering to KSA

That contradicts every strategic military relation we had had with Pakistan in the past in terms of procuring equipments - such as light weapons, gears, trainer aircraft, mortars, rocket launchers, and missile technology - as well as exchange training program.

they got top of the line hardware.. they got in-house weapons development projects, they got impressive weaponry and very well trained and funded military as well

Still that doesn't mean Pakistan has nothing good to offer considering the fact that we sealed many deals some of which were signed under the radar while others have been publicly announced. You might again add the fact that we did work together in the past, present, and we will be in future.

KSA has access to much better trained and knowledgeable expert workforce and Pakistan

Some of the drills and the annual training exercises we run is with Pakistan such as Nassem Al-Bahar. As for the work force, I'm guess that I'm right to say that the Pakistanis are the only ones who enjoy full access to our entire defense sectors and likewise to the Saudis on Pakistan's defense sectors.

Pakistan doesnt have anything special to offer which KSA cant buy from the rest of the world.

Allow me to say that the Pakistani-modified Chinese mortars as well as rocket launchers had done amazingly well during the Saudi-Yemeni boarder conflict in 2009. I'm also sure that the RSAF is grateful for the trainers they've got from Pakistan.

nuclear proliferation is out of question so nothing much is left other than getting some promise from Pakistan that it would sit quietly when Iran is attacked.

Nuclear weapons aren't a box of donuts KSA could get its hands on whenever they wish. Pakistan is a sovereign state, that won't risk a damn thing on this. If the Saudis could introduce nuclear weapons, then they might have to do it inside which requires an assistance from one of the world's five greatest powers - forget about the US -

Speaking of an attack against KSA by Iran, based on the analysis we've got in hand, we believe that Iran can start a war but it might not be able to end it. In other words an attack against Bahrain by Iran would be suicidal let alone KSA.

I assure you the Pakistanis were given assurances that they won't have a dog in any fight in the ME.

the only benefit I see is one sided and that to Pakistan in terms of some concessions and funding

KSA is obligated to assist, help, and extend her hands to Pakistan, it is our moral duty, and it won't solely be on our defense projects, but many.

nothing for KSA which . what are we not doing already? military cooperation is already there in place.

There are more and more we can do with each other.

Such cooperation is being expanded as the GCC decided to upgrade its Armor Shield Forces.

@Aeronaut @Pakistanisage @Luftwaffe @PWFI @Umair Nawaz @Stealth @Zarvan @HRK @Informant @chauvunist

we got nothing worth offering to KSA. they got top of the line hardware.. they got in-house weapons development projects, they got impressive weaponry and very well trained and funded military as well. KSA has access to much better trained and knowledgeable expert workforce and Pakistan doesnt have anything special to offer which KSA cant buy from the rest of the world.

nuclear proliferation is out of question so nothing much is left other than getting some promise from Pakistan that it would sit quietly when Iran is attacked.


the only benefit I see is one sided and that to Pakistan in terms of some concessions and funding. nothing for KSA which . what are we not doing already? military cooperation is already there in place.

well we can provide them with and Submarine training and they can help us is getting some military hardware

We have been training on the PN's submarines for decades. Usually, the PN stations one at Jeddah's

No country is our thekedar, and they wont go for Agostas. They got bigger fish in line. Brother brother har aga nahin thusa karo.

The Agusta is old indeed

I was kinda of hoping that we might sign a deal with the Germans on the U-214. If such deal is signed we will be taken care of the PN's order, with the Turks with us on board.

Man I am telling about Submarine training basic training is same and Mr lot of your programs are being secretly funded by Saudi Arabia even right now too

True. We always try not to get into the spotlight. Take our silent-sealing diplomacy as an example.

You know secret programs? Not so secret are they? KSA has better options and they should go for them. Cut this Ummah crap.

Not all support are being based on religious levels when it comes to Pakistan.

If someone was nice to you, you should be nice to him as well. Pakistan was one of the fewest countries which stood up with us at a time we need an ally to stood up with, the most. The Pakistani people had made a great contribution in the Saudi society as well.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Our hardwork our gains, you cant throw money and expect nukes? Nonsense. They have helped us with deferred money on oil payments, nothing was free. So where is your brotherhood? Itna shauq hai na to jao is mulk se.

Nothing in deferred payments as of oil. All oil shipments which Pakistan received had been paid in advance. Just like the AWACS deal Pakistan had with Sweden.

There are reports of Saudi Crown Prince and Interior Minister visits to Pakistan in the month of Feb 2014 ..... number of visits of KSA officials one after one ....

True HRK, but not quite accurate.

Im guessing you're referring to the next scheduled visit of the Saudi Interior Minister, and the National Guard Minister.

The crown won't be coming until the middle of this year at least, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Yzd Khalifa

u havnt slept the whole night did u?

Although abt nuclear technology there might be a realistic chance.......There r rumors that we r under a contract with Saudia Arabia in which they had funded the program in Pakistan along with Libya. But we didnt helped Libya when they killed Gaddafi........So i dont know how valid it is anymore.

 

[Kompromat]

Yzd Khalifa

u havnt slept the whole night did u?

Although abt nuclear technology there might be a realistic chance.......There r rumors that we r under a contract with Saudia Arabia in which we had funded the program in Pakistan along with Libya. But we didnt helped Libya when they killed Gaddafi........So i dont know how valid it is anymore.

Nuclear proliferation is out of the question. Can't afford it.

Once GCC Command is built and functional, maybe we can workout a joint defense pact involving nuclear protection like NATO has.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Indeed much of our nuclear program too.

You don't have any materialistic evidence for that

Just kidding

we got a third tier coastal Navy, not sure how much Submarine help we can provide them which they cant get from UK, USA , Germany and France.

The RSNF maintains strong relations with the PN.

We don't take the Germans seriously tbqh. Our preference may lie within what the French have got in hand. We do consult the PN to offer bits and piece of advice.

but you do have a point. if KSA decides to commission a submarine fleet then we can provide basic training.

I think it would be much more than basic training to our crew, as they've been training with the PN on their subs. It might reach to the level of sub-based special forces, and much more.

we are completely barred from latest technology from the west so our knowledge is now vintage

I'm not ready to agree on that. The PAF for example has been expanding its international military cooperation with many countries including westerns.

while we are blowing up schools and killing polio teams, their universities are pumping out scholars, doctors and scientists

Such statement is very pessimistic

Pakistan is at war against terrorism as much as we are but there are quite few differences. A few days ago, the Saudi board guard on the frontline with Yemen had had nasty clashed with Al-Qaida.

Indeed much of our nuclear program too.
we got a third tier coastal Navy, not sure how much Submarine help we can provide them which they cant get from UK, USA , Germany and France.. but you do have a point. if KSA decides to commission a submarine fleet then we can provide basic training.

please for once dont kid yourself..we must dispel our misconception about KSA that they lack in brain power or ability to learn and understand without our help. the time is coming when we will be going to learn in their institutions..

we are completely barred from latest technology from the west so our knowledge is now vintage. while we are blowing up schools and killing polio teams, their universities are pumping out scholars, doctors and scientists.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Nuclear proliferation is out of the question. Can't afford it.

Once GCC Command is built and functional, maybe we can workout a joint defense pact involving nuclear protection like NATO has.

yup its out of question, but saudis r under our nuke umbrella unofficially atleast.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

What are you talking about? It's 8 PM here

Yzd Khalifa

u havnt slept the whole night did u?

Although abt nuclear technology there might be a realistic chance.......There r rumors that we r under a contract with Saudia Arabia in which they had funded the program in Pakistan along with Libya. But we didnt helped Libya when they killed Gaddafi........So i dont know how valid it is anymore.

Although abt nuclear technology there might be a realistic chance.......There r rumors that we r under a contract with Saudia Arabia in which they had funded the program in Pakistan along with Libya. But we didnt helped Libya when they killed Gaddafi........So i dont know how valid it is anymore

These are stupid reports used against Pakistan to bad-mouth it. If there is going to be program as I mentioned earlier, then the Saudis must do it inside their country, transferring such weapons as these will make us both sweating.

Idk about Ghadafi, he was a douche bag, that's why General Zia dumped him.

I don't expect more from Saudi's, maybe they will take Nawaz Sharif back after his government fail in 2014.

C'mon dude, Nawaz has nothing to do with these factories.

We should assassinate Nawaz

yup its out of question, but saudis r under our nuke umbrella unofficially atleast.

Aeronaut won't give you an answer to this. He's very manipulative, so sinister.

He thinks you might be an undercover R&AW e-agent.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

What are you talking about? It's 8 PM here





These are stupid reports used against Pakistan to bad-mouth it. If there is going to be program as I mentioned earlier, then the Saudis must do it inside their country, transferring such weapons as these will make us both sweating.

Idk about Ghadafi, he was a douche bag, that's why General Zia dumped him.



C'mon dude, Nawaz has nothing to do with these factories.

We should assassinate Nawaz

There is some substance in those reports as well its not entirely a lie. And Saudia Arabia did funded it along with libya....there is a reason why we regard King Faisal and Col Gaddafi a lot other then just Great Leaders.
there is always a way around dude but the question is r u ready for some real stuff or not?

Well im a Gaddafi supporter so i wont call him this.......But Zia definitely was a douche bag.........

What are you talking about? It's 8 PM here

arent u in saudia Arabia?