Defeat of Sikhs by Dilasa Khan Bannuchi

[Samandri]

Battle of Attock, 1758 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Battle of Peshawar (1758) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lahore, Multan, Kashmir and other subhas on this side of Attock are under our rule for the most part, and places which have not come under our rule we shall soon bring under us. Ahmad Shah Durrani's son Timur Shah Durrani and Jahan Khan have been pursued by our troops, and their troops completely looted. Both of them have now reached Peshawar with a few broken troops... So Ahmad Shah Durrani has returned to Kandahar with some 12-14 thousand broken troops. Thus all have risen against Ahmad who has lost control over the region... we have decided to extend our rule up to Kandahar.

Peshwa Balaji Bajirao

Durranis were smart to attack fast and leave Maratha ambitions from NW.

The Maratha adventure in Punjab has been acclaimed by some historians as "carrying the hindu paramountcy upto attock. It is doubtful if the Maratha army actually advanced as far as attock, and the collection of revenue in the trans-chenab was purely a temporary affair. The peshawa didnt realize that punjab couldn't be retained without keeping a large well-equiped force constantly on the spot. The Peshwa sanctioned a 'provocatively advanced frontier" which made a war with abdali inevitable , but he made no adequate arrangements for its defense.
Indian History
Whether the Marathas had reached or crossed Attock was debated by historians like Jadunath Sarkar and G. S. Sardesai. It was emphatically refuted by Khare G. H. and Shejwalkar T. S., two well-known Maratha historians.
Marathas and the Marathas Country: The Marathas by A. Rā Kulakarṇī
Some Maratha Historians hold that the Marathas planted their banner on the walls of Attock, a statement which is not borne out by facts.
Studies in later Mughal history of the Panjab, 1707-1793 by Hari Ram Gupta

 

[Jaggu]

Yes I know all this, but would you agree that it was due to the looting done by Afghan forces on Punjabi Muslims after the death of Ahmad Shah that led to the shift in support to the Sikhs?

Although looting played a part in this. But as many here have said, Ahmad Shah was friendly with the Punjabi Muslims, he never looted them as his descendents did. But there are some factors which resulted in Punjabi Muslims siding with Sikhs instead of Pashtuns. When Ahmad Shah conquered Punjab, he never gave Punjab to the Punjabi Muslims. Instead he gave it to Pashtun chiefs to divide it between themselves. These Pashtun chiefs were Kasuri, Multani, Malerkotla Nawabs and many smaller Pathan chiefs besides Durani governors. He also offered a huge chunk of Punjab to his brilliant ally Mir Nasir Khan Baloch which he turned down since Punjab was too unstable. Even Punjabi Hindus were given top positions like governorships and ministerial positions under his rule such as Sukhjivan Mal who was a west Punjabi Hindu Khatri that was made governor of Muslim majority Kashmir(no Kashmiri was made governor). Kabuli Mal who was also a Hindu that served in top position as a minister. Then in Malwa, Abdali greatly favoured the Sikh chief Ala Singh of Patiala and gave him Sirhind but did no such favours for his rivals in Malwa the Muslim Punjabi Bhatti Rajputs. Maybe he didn't want Punjabi Muslims to become potential rivals of Pashtuns in future.

From what I have read of Ahmad Shah, he was not a religious fanatic even though he was a great enemy of the Sikhs. But his differences with the Sikhs were political rather than religious. He had proposed numerous times to the Sikhs that he is willing to give Punjab to them if they acknowledged his over lordship, but each time Sikhs refused this offer since they could not forget the time when he destroyed the Golden Temple.

When the Sikhs rose to power they had given Punjabi Muslims top positions as ministers and military. Punjabi Muslim religious leaders and Sufi Saints were respected by Sikh chiefs. And not surprising since Punjabi Muslims had supported Sikhs against the Afghans. Bhangi misl whose territory was mainly in west Punjab had established their links with Punjabi Muslim chiefs and religious leaders all over west Punjab.

Another reason why Punjabi Muslims did not favour the Pathans is that, they were in favour of the Mughals. Many such as Bulle Shah and Waris Shah saw the Afghans as disruptive of stable Muslim rule under the Mughals. Then there were the numerous cases of Pathan Faujdars and governors who would leave the Mughals and join their ethnic kin during any Afghan invasion. After the fall of the Mughals, the Punjabi Muslims had a choice between Sikhs(who were same ethnicity) or the Pashtuns.

 

[Samandri]

Although looting played a part in this. But as many here have said, Ahmad Shah was friendly with the Punjabi Muslims, he never looted them as his descendents did. But there are some factors which resulted in Punjabi Muslims siding with Sikhs instead of Pashtuns. When Ahmad Shah conquered Punjab, he never gave Punjab to the Punjabi Muslims. Instead he gave it to Pashtun chiefs to divide it between themselves. These Pashtun chiefs were Kasuri, Multani, Malerkotla Nawabs and many smaller Pathan chiefs besides Durani governors. He also offered a huge chunk of Punjab to his brilliant ally Mir Nasir Khan Baloch which he turned down since Punjab was too unstable. Even Punjabi Hindus were given top positions like governorships and ministerial positions under his rule such as Sukhjivan Mal who was a west Punjabi Hindu Khatri that was made governor of Muslim majority Kashmir(no Kashmiri was made governor). Kabuli Mal who was also a Hindu that served in top position as a minister. Then in Malwa, Abdali greatly favoured the Sikh chief Ala Singh of Patiala and gave him Sirhind but did no such favours for his rivals in Malwa the Muslim Punjabi Bhatti Rajputs. Maybe he didn't want Punjabi Muslims to become potential rivals of Pashtuns in future.

From what I have read of Ahmad Shah, he was not a religious fanatic even though he was a great enemy of the Sikhs. But his differences with the Sikhs were political rather than religious. He had proposed numerous times to the Sikhs that he is willing to give Punjab to them if they acknowledged his over lordship, but each time Sikhs refused this offer since they could not forget the time when he destroyed the Golden Temple.

When the Sikhs rose to power they had given Punjabi Muslims top positions as ministers and military. Punjabi Muslim religious leaders and Sufi Saints were respected by Sikh chiefs. And not surprising since Punjabi Muslims had supported Sikhs against the Afghans. Bhangi misl whose territory was mainly in west Punjab had established their links with Punjabi Muslim chiefs and religious leaders all over west Punjab.

Another reason why Punjabi Muslims did not favour the Pathans is that, they were in favour of the Mughals. Many such as Bulle Shah and Waris Shah saw the Afghans as disruptive of stable Muslim rule under the Mughals. Then there were the numerous cases of Pathan Faujdars and governors who would leave the Mughals and join their ethnic kin during any Afghan invasion. After the fall of the Mughals, the Punjabi Muslims had a choice between Sikhs(who were same ethnicity) or the Pashtuns.

I agree with you on this, this is very helpful answer.

 

[IBRIS]

you stated yourself in another thread you tried to kill yourself by drinking to death but you kept throwing out and you aint gutsy enough to jump of a bridge and then later on some angel came in your dream and you stoped drinking.. didn't you

LOL what a kabootar, quit drinking because some angels came to him in his dreams. We call that a wet dream in real world. He should check check his undies every morning. Quit drinking because of some dream bwaahhhahaha

Tomorrow he will go on a suicide mission because he had a dream caliphate. These people are in abundant amount multiplied through inbreeding.

 

[ghoul]

Just to add to this discussion:

Sikhs were indeed very successful warriors. Pashtuns, Marhattas, Gurkhas, Potoharis etc were always protected by their geography, i'e hills and forests, whereas Sikhs were plains people where it is much harder to fight, yet they still successfully withstood the seven attacks of Abdali, who had a whole state's disposal in his grip.

As for Punjabi muslims siding with Sikhs; I think it was only a few tribes and landless peasants hoping for jaagirs. Tiwanas with their hundreds of horses had joined the Sikhs begrudgingly after the pakhtun nawab of D.I.Khan had tried to betray him to the Sikhs. The rest were landless peasants in my opinion.

As for Sikhs winning because of pashtun disunity, then I guess that is true for Potoharis and Punjabi muslims too. The Bhangi missal first attacked the Gakkhars and easily defeated them due to their infighting(Gakkhars ususally always had a single chieftain like the baloch, so an infighting resulted in much confusion). The whole Gakkhar leadership was imprisoned by the Bhangi missal. The Bhangi missal then marched against the Chibs, but got defeated after losing multiple expeditions in Mirpur and Bhimber. The Chibs were then finally defeated by Ranjit Singh and Gulab Singh. Ranjit Singh himself then attacked the janjuas of salt range for their salt mines, and defeated them individually after some hard fighting. Then came the Khokhars of pind dadan khan, who were also completely destroyed. Ranjit then marched against the Jodhras, Awans and Khattars of Attock, and also overpowered them. The malik of the Jodhras fled to Afghanistan for assylum. The Awans of Kalabagh and Shamsabad paid huge ransom. Moral of the story; most muslim punjabis/potoharis were also disunited.

In central Punjab, the Manj rais of raikot, the bhattis of nankana sahib and pindi bhattian etc were all separately defeated by the Sikhs. The Sials of Jhang were also defeated by the Sikhs later on.

As for the most underrated warriors; it were the Jammuites and Himachalis, i'e the Dogras. After Hari Singh's death, the northern mountains were handed over to Gulab Singh, who enjoyed an equally feared reputation. Not to mention he also conquered Gilgit Baltistan and reduced the Khakhas and Bombas of Muzaffarabad to a semblance of order. The Chibs were also reduced by the Dogras.

And as for Rajputs of India, not all of them offered their women. The Solankis, baghels were also rajput. The rajputs of Mewar and Rathores did put up an impressive fight against the mughals.

 

[Samandri]

According to S.M.Latif, author of "History of Punjab', the zamindars of Ghari Dilasa Khan (Tappa daud Shah) in Bannu district raised the standard of revolt. Bukhshi Tara Chand and Sardars Sham Singh, Jai Singh, and Jagat Singh, At tariwallas, besieged the mutineers in the garhi, but the besieged, some two thousands in number, made a sudden sally, killing three hundred Sikhs with the fire of their matchlocks and wounding five hundred more. The Sikhs were compelled to raise the siege and retire to a distance of a kos from the garhi. The Maharaja Ranjeet Singh, on receiving news of this, forthwith ordered Raja Suchet Singh to march to the scene of insurrection at tho head of a force for the relief of the Sikh army. He was, however, much irritated at hearing of the disaster. Tara Chand had been created a dewan a about time before, and placed in charge of Bannu, Tank and Dera Ismail Khan. On the present occasion, he had with him the flower of the Sikh army.His force of eight thousands men and eight guns were led by the chiefs of atari, Nakka and Batala, and his ignominious repulse , with disgrace on his official career and a stain on his military character. He was highly indignant and fined dewan and his brothers Managal Sen and Ratan chand , 125,000 rupees.

 

[FaujHistorian]

According to S.M.Latif, author of "History of Punjab', the zamindars of Ghari Dilasa Khan (Tappa daud Shah) in Bannu district raised the standard of revolt. Bukhshi Tara Chand and Sardars Sham Singh, Jai Singh, and Jagat Singh, At tariwallas, besieged the mutineers in the garhi, but the besieged, some two thousands in number, made a sudden sally, killing three hundred Sikhs with the fire of their matchlocks and wounding five hundred more. The Sikhs were compelled to raise the siege and retire to a distance of a kos from the garhi. The Maharaja Ranjeet Singh, on receiving news of this, forthwith ordered Raja Suchet Singh to march to the scene of insurrection at tho head of a force for the relief of the Sikh army. He was, however, much irritated at hearing of the disaster. Tara Chand had been created a dewan a about time before, and placed in charge of Bannu, Tank and Dera Ismail Khan. On the present occasion, he had with him the flower of the Sikh army.His force of eight thousands men and eight guns were led by the chiefs of atari, Nakka and Batala, and his ignominious repulse , with disgrace on his official career and a stain on his military character. He was highly indignant and fined dewan and his brothers Managal Sen and Ratan chand , 125,000 rupees.

Bhai

Sometimes you loose a battle and win a war.
Sometimes you win a battle and loose a war.


One should never confuse war with battle.

One is short term, results in temporary jubilation
One is long term, results in permanent occupation.

So I dare say

One should never confuse war with battle.

 

[KingMamba]

Okay believe what you want but that doesn't change the fact that the muslim population is around 180 million ( roughly the size of Pakistan) at present in India.There were around 14 crore muslims during the 2001 Census.So you really think that they could nearly double themselves in just a matter of a decade!They have had a high birth rate in the last decade but the Hindu birth rate was also quite high(though a bit less than than them) and hence there is no disparity in the overall percentage.Plus i have also accounted all the illegal Bangladeshis(roughly 20 millions) who are currently living in our country in the overall muslim population.Just understand one thing if the muslim population was more than 300 millions than how on earth did the BJP win 282 seats in the General election out of 542 seats whereas the Congress party which gets the majority of the muslim votebank got only 48 seats.

Muslims also voted for BJP in some cases, that is why.

 

[Samandri]

Bhai

Sometimes you loose a battle and win a war.
Sometimes you win a battle and loose a war.


One should never confuse war with battle.

One is short term, results in temporary jubilation
One is long term, results in permanent occupation.

So I dare say

One should never confuse war with battle.

Bihari-historian, teray ko kis ney kaha key battle aur war ko confuse kia jaa raha hey, kyun har waqt faltu key comments painkatay rehtay ho?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Bihari-historian, teray ko kis ney kaha key battle aur war ko confuse kia jaa raha hey, kyun har waqt faltu key comments painkatay rehtay ho?

This thread is all about one battle. That's all.

 

[Kabira]

Although looting played a part in this. But as many here have said, Ahmad Shah was friendly with the Punjabi Muslims, he never looted them as his descendents did. But there are some factors which resulted in Punjabi Muslims siding with Sikhs instead of Pashtuns. When Ahmad Shah conquered Punjab, he never gave Punjab to the Punjabi Muslims. Instead he gave it to Pashtun chiefs to divide it between themselves. These Pashtun chiefs were Kasuri, Multani, Malerkotla Nawabs and many smaller Pathan chiefs besides Durani governors. He also offered a huge chunk of Punjab to his brilliant ally Mir Nasir Khan Baloch which he turned down since Punjab was too unstable. Even Punjabi Hindus were given top positions like governorships and ministerial positions under his rule such as Sukhjivan Mal who was a west Punjabi Hindu Khatri that was made governor of Muslim majority Kashmir(no Kashmiri was made governor). Kabuli Mal who was also a Hindu that served in top position as a minister. Then in Malwa, Abdali greatly favoured the Sikh chief Ala Singh of Patiala and gave him Sirhind but did no such favours for his rivals in Malwa the Muslim Punjabi Bhatti Rajputs. Maybe he didn't want Punjabi Muslims to become potential rivals of Pashtuns in future.

From what I have read of Ahmad Shah, he was not a religious fanatic even though he was a great enemy of the Sikhs. But his differences with the Sikhs were political rather than religious. He had proposed numerous times to the Sikhs that he is willing to give Punjab to them if they acknowledged his over lordship, but each time Sikhs refused this offer since they could not forget the time when he destroyed the Golden Temple.

When the Sikhs rose to power they had given Punjabi Muslims top positions as ministers and military. Punjabi Muslim religious leaders and Sufi Saints were respected by Sikh chiefs. And not surprising since Punjabi Muslims had supported Sikhs against the Afghans. Bhangi misl whose territory was mainly in west Punjab had established their links with Punjabi Muslim chiefs and religious leaders all over west Punjab.

Another reason why Punjabi Muslims did not favour the Pathans is that, they were in favour of the Mughals. Many such as Bulle Shah and Waris Shah saw the Afghans as disruptive of stable Muslim rule under the Mughals. Then there were the numerous cases of Pathan Faujdars and governors who would leave the Mughals and join their ethnic kin during any Afghan invasion. After the fall of the Mughals, the Punjabi Muslims had a choice between Sikhs(who were same ethnicity) or the Pashtuns.

Nakai misl were Sandhu jatts? Their decendents converted to Islam between 1860-1900 and now is political family in their area.

Nakai Misl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sardar Muhammad Arif Nakai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[RazPaK]

LOL what a kabootar, quit drinking because some angels came to him in his dreams. We call that a wet dream in real world. He should check check his undies every morning. Quit drinking because of some dream bwaahhhahaha

Tomorrow he will go on a suicide mission because he had a dream caliphate. These people are in abundant amount multiplied through inbreeding.

Your sister came in,my dreams last night. what now diaper head?

 

[IBRIS]

Your sister came in,my dreams last night. what now diaper head?

Darkka durka durka. Look who is talking the wet dreamer and material of inbreed. What is your mothers relation with your father other than cousins.? The kid in your avatar, is he a inbred too.?

 

[RazPaK]

Darkka durka durka. Look who is talking the wet dreamer and material of inbreed. What is your mothers relation with your father other than cousins.? The kid in your avatar, is he a inbred too.?

 

[Yeti]

Your sister came in,my dreams last night. what now diaper head?

teri ma lal majid mai kham karti hai?