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Deadline Emerges For India's $10B Warplane Deal

Man...is there a similar example where so much time have been taken to take a deal to the next level???? What the hell are they going to do for the entire year??? What else is left to decide here????

We know the results of the technical trials, we know the political leverage we can extract by choosing one party over another, what else is left now????? Morons!!!!
Dont worry the delay is valid.

1. Discussion on TOT is a major issue as the bidders will have to clearly outline what they can outsource, not to mention the CRITICAL techs.

2. Most planes fielded are a reason for the delay not us. You can still see EFT is lacking in ground attack, Rafale has AESA issues, infact most planes have AESA radar isues apart from teh US ones.

3. US planes are also a major delaying factor due to the lack of political tech transfer aggreements btn India and US.

many others are also there
 
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I am not a military professional nor a media expert to coment. But One thing for sure that squadrans of IAF have been reduced to 32 from its sanctioned 39.5 amount.

Let me correct your figures......Lets talk about Jan 2011
Total number of aircrafts in IAF inventory
Mig-21 bison=121, Mig-29=69, Su-30MKI=122, Mirage 2005=51, Mig-27=145, Jaguar=139
Total number of aircrafts = 647 i.e @20 aircrafts = 32.7 squadrons
(all figures are approximate, still very close to actual and important thing is that i have not taken aircrafts in reserve ie Mig-21 non-bison and Mig-27)

Second thing after awarding the deal, the time required to deliver would be about 3 to 4 years for first batch. By 2015 to 2017 the squadrans would be reduced to 29.5.

How?
In year 2012 we will be getting 40 modified Su-30 MKI + yearly rate of production of Su-30MKI from HAL is 14 + 10 LCA per year
Taking the worst possible scenario 32.7 squadrons will remain static, because Mig-21 bisons (Jaguars will serve us till 2025 wile Mig-27 upto 2020) are to be retired around 2017 i.e 20 aircrafts per year but note that our annual induction rate of aircrafts is 24.

Dont you people think this is alarming since we would be loosing numerical edge over our rival to the west, where PAF is modernizing and including F 16 block 52 and MLU of their F16s and also about 250 JF 17 thunder. Forget about the specs of the FACs but surely this would posses a serious threat to nation's security

Now lets talk about threat from PAF......
F-16 block 15(MLU)=45, F-16 block 50/52=18, Dassault Mirage III=121, Dassault Mirage 5=60, F-7=192, A-5=41, Jf-17=28
Total number of aircrafts=505-38=477 (because they are replacing some Mirage's and F-7's with JF-17)
No commander on this earth can dream of winning the air battle leave alone war with F-7, F-16 block 15, Mirages and just 18 F-16 block 50/52 in current scenario.
why? Jf-17 is their latest addition means 0 or 1 year experience for pilots. Once we move just 2 squadrons of Su-30 MKI (more than 8 years of experience), game is over.


IMO. As my friend from Pakistan Asim Aquil said correctly that 10 freaking years and after these 3 years they are hoping to take decision at the year end (Not A commitment).

You know what wise men do, he patiently listens to all but in order to understand things he use his own logic and knowledge. Why i said this?
We are not buying these aircrafts just because purchasing foreign equipments is our hobby neither just to fill the numbers. We are purchasing because we want to gain technical knowledge so that we can inculcate them in our own equipments, so that we can decrease our dependency on foreign countries.

Except 2 aircraft no other aircraft is matured enough in terms of IAF requirement i.e. AESA radars, multirole and other things. Important point to note is offset policies, political weight and techonology which they are ready to transfer ( I am talking about actual technology transfer not just production technology which is most important for some of our future projects )

I think the Bribes and commission amount have nt been formalized.. Really man security of nation is at stake.. Look at the decision took in case of MKIs which was instaneous and their upgrade is done latter on.. If they are waiting ofr AESA and other upgrades onboad then can make a separate clause regarding this while negotiating.. Same goes for Adml Gorshkov.. Y cant people think its we tax payers who are spending..

Don't talk baseless things, I had worked in both purely government and public sectors and I have better knowledge about that what level of corruption and how much efficient they are. Yes corruption is there but there are also people with extraordinary capability.

You have any knowledge about the technical glitches and extra cost which are required to be paid for later upgradations. We don't want to tie our hand and alteast don't want to be slave (slave - manufacturer uses these kind of upgrades to increase the cost of equipments, they monopolize every thing).
 
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It is too late and total waste of money. Don't get surprised if this deal is getting dragged up-to 2015. We don't need 40-60 squadron to defend the border. 500 top-notch fighters is enough to defend the country in all fronts. 250-300 Su-MKI is more than enough to defend from western borders. There is no immediate threat to India. The 2 front war spouted by our military chiefs are utter BS. Government should cancel this deal and invest $2 billion in developing AMCA in fast-track manner. And, use remaining $8 billion to invest in education and poverty alleviation.
 
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I do not think the aircraft would be obsolete since all the countries have planned to induct these aircraft for the next 20 years or more. From where did you assume this?

Even our government has delayed the tender alongside many other countries on hold. It is quite irritating the amount of arument we have to do with Left parties here in Switzerland to get the new aircraft.

dear.dear. Have u ever heard of chankya ? India is following chankya doctrine. There is no immediate requirement for mrca. .same time we are waiting for rafael, eurofighter Aesa upgrades ..only US fighter jets ready, but they wont give us Tot. .so we just keep floating tender,to gain political levarage by buyer, and u know we indians r very good at diplomacy
 
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The French Fighter Jet That Nobody Wants
The Rafale has cost $53 billion and is the key to France's defense economy, but it's not selling abroad

By Carol Matlack
The Rafale fighter, made by France's Dassault Aviation, is loaded with high-tech avionics, radar, and targeting systems. Now all it needs are customers. France has been peddling the supersonic jet since 2000 and hasn't sold a single one. In the latest setback, Brazil said on Jan. 17 that it would reopen bidding for a fighter contract worth up to $7 billion—a deal France had thought it was close to sealing last year. Neither Dassault nor the French Defense Ministry would comment on Brazil's decision.

The Rafale's plight signals the end of an era for France. With their Mirage fighter program, developed in the 1950s, the French were able to bolster their national defense, promote new technologies, and provide well-paying jobs—while recouping much of the cost by exporting hundreds of jets worldwide. Hoping to duplicate that model, the French government has spent some $53 billion on the Rafale, more than the country's $40 billion annual defense budget. But deal after deal has fallen through, with prospective buyers South Korea, Singapore, and Morocco choosing Boeing's (BA) F-15 and Lockheed Martin's (LMT) F-16 over the Rafale.

Midsize suppliers such as France are being outgunned by bigger competitors. The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, for example, is being developed by a U.S.-led consortium of nine countries that plan to buy more than 2,500 of the planes. That will ensure plenty of revenue from production and upgrades. Britain, Germany, Italy, and Spain have similarly joined forces to produce the new Eurofighter jet. "Nationally driven, nationally financed and controlled production of the most advanced weapons systems is now the exclusive purview of the U.S. and Russia, and in the future, China as well," says Mark Bromley, a senior researcher at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, a Swedish think tank.

Changing global politics has worked against France, too. During the Cold War, France successfully marketed the Mirage as an alternative to U.S. and Soviet planes. Other customers, such as the United Arab Emirates, bought French planes after the U.S. balked at providing high-tech weaponry. Now, though, the U.S. is eagerly seeking sales in the Gulf states. Many foreign governments, in turn, see arms deals as a way to forge closer defense ties with the U.S., says Loïc Tribot La Spière, an analyst at the Center for Studies and Prospective Strategy, a Paris think tank. "The sentiment is, 'We buy American because it assures security,' " he says.

The 93 Rafales produced by Dassault so far have gone to the French armed forces. To sustain production, the government has agreed to spend $1.1 billion on more Rafales over three years, even as it tries to pare budget deficits.

Finding customers will only get harder. As the Joint Strike Fighter enters service, U.S. manufacturers are set to increase their share of the $16 billion-a-year fighter aircraft market over the next decade from nearly 58 percent to more than 67 percent, according to forecasts by the Virginia-based Teal Group aerospace consultancy. Eurofighter and Russian manufacturers will get most of the rest, Teal predicts.

The longer the Rafale order book stays empty, the harder it will be to sell the plane, Teal analyst Richard Aboulafia says. "Customers like to see a home government that is determined to keep spending on buying and upgrading the aircraft" with the latest technology. Instead, he says, the Rafale is on budgetary life support. "That's the last thing you want customers to see."

The bottom line: France's decision to go it alone on its fighter program has cost the country $53 billion, with no export sales to offset the price.

Matlack is a Paris correspondent for Bloomberg Businessweek.

Source:The French Fighter Jet That Nobody Wants - BusinessWeek
 
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