DCNS Wins Sub Contract With Pakistan

[Sinnerman108]

for how long our navy is keep wasting money on old system almost 90 percent of our naval harware is old other than F 22P and Agosta 90B everything is old helos are very very old and naval aviation is also too old mirage III and P 3 Orion are old what new they have bought nothing just rubbish is our navy

As long as Zardari / bhuttos are there
rest assured the french will not loose a contract.

 

[HAIDER]

As long as Zardari / bhuttos are there
rest assured the french will not loose a contract.

Its big question mark on new navel admiral . Recently purchase of VIP plane, which they don't need. Navy has enough VIP planes. Second upgrade of these old subs involve huge kick backs to Admiral and Zaradari. Noman Bashir is appointed by Zaradari. During last tenure when Zardari was active with PPP,during that time Admiral of Pak navy end up in court and govt recovered millions of rupees.

 

[Penguin]

Just to give an idea of age in relation to usefullness of subs:

In 1995, the Republic of Singapore Navy (RSN) acquired a Challenger class (formerly known as Sjöormen class) submarine from the Swedish Navy and another three in 1997, making them Singapore's first underwater platforms. The Sjöormen class were a group of submarines built for the Swedish Navy in the late 1960s. They had a teardrop shape and were capable of diving to 150m. The ships were retired by Sweden in the early 1990s. Hence, these boats were around 30 years old when acquired by the RSN. It is believed that the Challenger class were purchased to develop the required submarine operations expertise before selecting a modern class of submarines to replace them, since all the boats are over 40 years old today.

Singapore's Ministry of Defence (MINDEF) signed an agreement with Kockums for the supply of two Archer class (formerly known as Västergötland class) submarines to the RSN on 4 November 2005. More than 20 years old and previously in reserve with the Swedish Navy, the submarines will be transferred to the RSN on completion of the modernisation and conversion for operation in tropical waters. RSS Archer was launched on 16 June 2009. The Archer class submarines are equipped with an air independent propulsion system. This enables the submarines to have longer submerged endurance and lower noise signature, enhancing the stealth capability of the submarines. The advanced sonar system allows the submarines to detect contacts at a further distance, while the torpedo system has a better target acquisition capability, which allows the submarines to engage contacts at a further range. The Archer class submarines are expected to enter service from 2010 and may replace some of the Challenger class submarines (despite their age).

The Swedish Södermanland class of diesel-electric submarines consist of the HMS Södermanland and HMS Östergötland. These two submarines were originally launched as Västergötland class submarines in 1987 and 1990, and have been relaunched as a new class after extensive modernization 2003 and 2004 by Kockums AB. They are 24 and 20 years old today. The newer Gotland class attack submarines of the Swedish Navy are modern diesel-electric submarines. They are the first submarines in the world to feature a Stirling engine air-independent propulsion (AIP) system, which extends their underwater endurance from a few days to weeks. This capability had previously only been available with nuclear powered submarines. They date from 1992 through 1994 and are today roughly 18 and 16 years old and remain unmodernized.

The Walrus-class submarine is the only submarine class currently in operation in the Royal Netherlands Navy. They have been in use since 1990. In 2007, the cabinet approved an upgrade of the four operational subs and recruitment of additional crew to improve overall operational availability. The upgrades are focussed on near-shore operations and integration with new weapons. These include the US migration from the current MK 48 mod-4 torpedo to the mod-7 version.

These are some of the more capable SSKs currently out there in service of Western and Eastern navies ...

While the French have retired their Agiosta 70s, they remain in service in the navy of Spain.

The Agosta 90B, also known as the Khalid-class, is a modernised design built for the Pakistan Navy. Various modifications give lower acoustic signature, lower diving depth, improved battery range and performance. Greater automation also allows the crew to be reduced from 54 to 36.

PNS/M Khalid (S137) - built in France by DCN Cherbourg, completed in 1999, now 11 years old.
PNS/M Saad (S138) - built in Pakistan with French assistance, completed in 2002, now jsut 8 years old.
PNS/M Hamza (S139) - built in Pakistan, commissioned 14 August 2006, now just 4 years old.

That should put the upgrade of Agosta 70B in proper perspective, I think.

 

[Arsalan]

the agost 70 are nmot to be upgraded to become on par the agost 90b for sure but yes it can prove good stop gap unless we can ge hands on to the U214 or the chines options!
even later on, with the upgradations done, it can still be kept operational or as reserve for a few more years!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

Its big question mark on new navel admiral . Recently purchase of VIP plane, which they don't need. Navy has enough VIP planes. Second upgrade of these old subs involve huge kick backs to Admiral and Zaradari. Noman Bashir is appointed by Zaradari. During last tenure when Zardari was active with PPP,during that time Admiral of Pak navy end up in court and govt recovered millions of rupees.

navy was the only branch of pakistan military forces with no modren VIP plane

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

china i wroking on a new generation of submarines as reported by various siurces.
the upgradation of agost 70 may also point that after U214 deal almost crapped, PN might not be looking for Yuan or Song class submarine and might just join the development on new system.

the experience with Agost 90b will also be helpfull!
just a mild possibility, i am not advocating this point!

regards!

 

[Penguin]

Related:

Kockums launches second submarine for Singapore Navy

RSS Swordsman was launched today with pomp and circumstance. The submarine is the second in the Northern Light project under which two Västergötland class submarines, previously owned by the Swedish Navy, have been rebuilt, life-extended and modernised. The Singapore Navy is therefore receiving the very latest in submarine technology, including world-class stealth technology. Training of the crew is co-ordinated with the Swedish Navy at the naval base in Karlskrona

Full story

 

[ANG]

Hi, the PN is wasting money on surface ships. It should concentrate on air planes and submarines, armed with anti-ship nukes. That is the only way they can be a credible deterent to the Indian Navy.

The surface fleet of Pakistan will be sent to the bottom of the ocean early on, in any case of hostilities. Investing in nuke anti-ship missles is the only way to deal with the IN. Moreover, using these weapons in the ocean is more palitable as there is no real long term effects or pollution. This will also insure that there is no land based counter-strike. The IN is way to big for the PN to handle under any scenario. Take care.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Hi, the PN is wasting money on surface ships. It should concentrate on air planes and submarines, armed with anti-ship nukes. That is the only way they can be a credible deterent to the Indian Navy.

The surface fleet of Pakistan will be sent to the bottom of the ocean early on, in any case of hostilities. Investing in nuke anti-ship missles is the only way to deal with the IN. Moreover, using these weapons in the ocean is more palitable as there is no real long term effects or pollution. This will also insure that there is no land based counter-strike. The IN is way to big for the PN to handle under any scenario. Take care.

Surface ships have its own advantages.

PN should look for as much as possible stealth frigates with good CIWS, SAM system and AShMs giving them good chance to survive the war to the max, FAC of different sizes with reduced RCS equipped with data link capability and AShM. FACs should be of 500 tonne to the low figure of 200+ like the Type 022 Stealth FAC as the ideal choice. These should have data link capability, thus they can sneak close to their targets, target acquisition can be given from the AEW&C or fighters, fire their missiles and then race back, hit and run tactics.

I say, we should have 8-10 surface ships, Frigates of F-22P or Type 054A class, 20+ FAC all with AShM and data link capability, have as much subs as possible and a good AEW&C platform to track surface ships of the enemy.

 

[Arsalan]

Hi, the PN is wasting money on surface ships. It should concentrate on air planes and submarines, armed with anti-ship nukes. That is the only way they can be a credible deterent to the Indian Navy.

The surface fleet of Pakistan will be sent to the bottom of the ocean early on, in any case of hostilities. Investing in nuke anti-ship missles is the only way to deal with the IN. Moreover, using these weapons in the ocean is more palitable as there is no real long term effects or pollution. This will also insure that there is no land based counter-strike. The IN is way to big for the PN to handle under any scenario. Take care.

whether at sea or at land a nuke attack will trigger a nucler war.. retaliation of comparable magnitude..
this is what no one want.

as Taimi said, surface ships have there own advantage. we must go ahead with procurement of surface ships with good SAM abilities as this is what we are really missing. for anti ship roles medium frigates like F-22p and FAC are good enough.

submarines have there own roles, infact, if we come to that point, it will be the subs givinen the responsibility to take war to enemy waters as we do not posses any heavier cruisers or destroyers with serious fire power.
subs with babur missiles will be a real treat..

regards!

 

[Super Falcon]

well why we are wasting money on agosta 70 if it is going to be upgraded than it will be having systems similar to agosta 90 but its hull will be same useless why waste money on same sort of quality and we can gmarine than that i will go worst new sub from china over agosta 70 on any given day man i smell Mr 10 percent hand in it too

 

[Jigs]

This seems like the most cost effective solution. Since new subs are on hold for the time being.

 

[SQ8]

aaah and what are you're views on turning this pile of rubbish into a worthwhile force??
(Leave out the kill zardari option as of now )

Views similar to those regarding the Mig-21 BISON the IAF operated..
Piles of trash that after an upgrade became fairly potent in their own right.

 

[Super Falcon]

our navy is sick and they only buy rubbish things which i dont think so going to matter for our navy our navy think tank is rubbish

 

[Lefa]

A little question about something I've forget:
Pakistani Agosta 90Bs are MESMA AIP equiped?

Thank you