Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[he-man]

French are very reliable. French provided all the tech's but if our public shipyard MDL did not able to absorb the technology what French can do about it.

who knows what happens behind the scene yaar

although our chai-biscuit organizations are the ones to be blamed in most of the cases

 

[SRP]

who knows what happens behind the scene yaar

although our chai-biscuit organizations are the ones to be blamed in most of the cases

It is well known fact that MDL sucks. They did not able to receive the tech.

 

[[Bregs]]

Even if they announce earlier, it will be a big news and given the scandal news all over even in defense(helo deal) mostly it will go like how it happened in Brazil.

All blames will go to Dassault, the negotiations should have been finished much earlier.

After 2014 elections, the new govt. might give more importance to indigenous stuff. Modi(if) already indicated the same.

New govt will give preference to indigenous right ! but do India has potential to produce a fighter equivalent or any where near to Rafale , they have not been able to produce mki tejas as yet

 

[halloweene]

Few things about situation here (in France). Dassault isnt France and the reverse. Dassault will sign if and only if they are sure about the contract will go smoothly."You don't mess with a 60 years old client" is the sentence i heard. Whatever could be pressures from governments (happened once in UAE, another story). I'm fairly optimistic, as (i) India do need this contract. (ii) Francedo need this contract. (iii) Dassault andHAL do want this contract. (v) It's a win win situation. So it may be delayed by a reason or another, but will happen (my guess is december, but i have no more insights then you guys do)

 

[he-man]

Few things about situation here (in France). Dassault isnt France and the reverse. Dassault will sign if and only if they are sure about the contract will go smoothly."You don't mess with a 60 years old client" is the sentence i heard. Whatever could be pressures from governments (happened once in UAE, another story). I'm fairly optimistic, as (i) India do need this contract. (ii) Francedo need this contract. (iii) Dassault andHAL do want this contract. (v) It's a win win situation. So it may be delayed by a reason or another, but will happen (my guess is december, but i have no more insights then you guys do)

mate india will get something else if not rafale,,,,dassault has to understand this.

 

[Abingdonboy]

mate india will get something else if not rafale,,,,dassault has to understand this.

And that would be? Seriously I feel it is Rafale of bust. If the Rafale deal calls through for whatever reason the IAF is going to be stuck with the current situation- LCA trudging along, MKIs on order (maybe a few more SQDs if the Rafale deal is called off), FGFA under devlopment and the AMCA just on the horizon. Faced with a self-imposed 2019 deadline for all MIG-21 and 27 and many Jags to be phased out the IAF is facing a very acute SQD numbers crunch and unless the intake increases the SQD strength is going to plummet come 2019 and won't recover for a good 4-6 years to pre-2019 levels (which are already way below the sanctioned strength of the IAF).The IAF said it wanted and is planning for 45-50 fighter SQDs by 2027-30.

The EFT is a no go IMHO despite it being the L2 bidder.

Even if the EFT goes through you're looking at post 2019 deleiveries IMHO as it will take a good 2-3 years just to hammer out a deal and then another 3 years for first delivery. The case would be the same for additional MKI orders, you're not going to get delivers of these extra units for a good 4-5 years and then one has to ask what damage would an extension to HAL's MKI production lines do to the IAF's FGFA production as the FGFA is set to use the exact same MKI production lines and the FGFA's current production timelines are based on MKI prodcition coming to an end by the end of this decade for which re- tooling and expansion at Nasik has already begun. The knock-on effect to the FGFA program (an incredibly important project for the IAF) could be signifcant.

Then one has to say that neither the MKI nor EFT to adequately meet the IAF's vision for their Rafale's ie multi-role assets focusing primarily on the strike role. The MKI's is designated an "Air Dominace" fighter by the IAF. The EFT's A2G Capabilties or rather lack thereof have been clearly exposed and the all-solving Tranche 3 upgrade is a long way off and mostly unfunded by the partner nations as of now. The EFT too is designed to fight more in the A2A domain. The Rafale really is what the IAF wants and needs.


Like I said, it really is Rafale or bust for India/the IAF too (just don't tell the French that ).

 

[SR-91]

IMO India and France both do not have any choice but to hammer out this deal.

India needs France and France needs India.

 

[rockstarIN]

And that would be? Seriously I feel it is Rafale of bust. If the Rafale deal calls through for whatever reason the IAF is going to be stuck with the current situation- LCA trudging along, MKIs on order (maybe a few more SQDs if the Rafale deal is called off), FGFA under devlopment and the AMCA just on the horizon. Faced with a self-imposed 2019 deadline for all MIG-21 and 27 and many Jags to be phased out the IAF is facing a very acute SQD numbers crunch and unless the intake increases the SQD strength is going to plummet come 2019 and won't recover for a good 4-6 years to pre-2019 levels (which are already way below the sanctioned strength of the IAF).The IAF said it wanted and is planning for 45-50 fighter SQDs by 2027-30.

The EFT is a no go IMHO despite it being the L2 bidder.

Even if the EFT goes through you're looking at post 2019 deleiveries IMHO as it will take a good 2-3 years just to hammer out a deal and then another 3 years for first delivery. The case would be the same for additional MKI orders, you're not going to get delivers of these extra units for a good 4-5 years and then one has to ask what damage would an extension to HAL's MKI production lines do to the IAF's FGFA production as the FGFA is set to use the exact same MKI production lines and the FGFA's current production timelines are based on MKI prodcition coming to an end by the end of this decade for which re- tooling and expansion at Nasik has already begun. The knock-on effect to the FGFA program (an incredibly important project for the IAF) could be signifcant.

Then one has to say that neither the MKI nor EFT to adequately meet the IAF's vision for their Rafale's ie multi-role assets focusing primarily on the strike role. The MKI's is designated an "Air Dominace" fighter by the IAF. The EFT's A2G Capabilties or rather lack thereof have been clearly exposed and the all-solving Tranche 3 upgrade is a long way off and mostly unfunded by the partner nations as of now. The EFT too is designed to fight more in the A2A domain. The Rafale really is what the IAF wants and needs.


Like I said, it really is Rafale or bust for India/the IAF too (just don't tell the French that ).

The best is what rafale which IAF wants and suits the best for sure.

But it does not mean that MKIs are way behind to A2G. It is as capable as any other jet in any A2G mode. IAF simply love Mirage 2000 and its operational worthiness than the Russian stuff, thats it. We can additionally buy MKIs from Russian production lines in flyaway condition if we are opt for it.

Since we are getting Apaches for CAP, we can 'adjust' with MKI for more deep strikes etc. Do not forget MKi is getting better and better with air launched Brahmos and even Russians ordered the same configuration for their airforce (SU30M). We are getting upgraded Mig 29s & M2ks with enough strike package.

Least do not forget Mig-29ks which can compliment airforce.

 

[saurav]

Rafales are good planes.. very good.. But are they worth $20 Bill ..? especially in an economic condition like ours..? And the Food Security bill yet to kick in..?

I would rather have few more MKIs and LCAs instead..

 

[he-man]

And that would be? Seriously I feel it is Rafale of bust. If the Rafale deal calls through for whatever reason the IAF is going to be stuck with the current situation- LCA trudging along, MKIs on order (maybe a few more SQDs if the Rafale deal is called off), FGFA under devlopment and the AMCA just on the horizon. Faced with a self-imposed 2019 deadline for all MIG-21 and 27 and many Jags to be phased out the IAF is facing a very acute SQD numbers crunch and unless the intake increases the SQD strength is going to plummet come 2019 and won't recover for a good 4-6 years to pre-2019 levels (which are already way below the sanctioned strength of the IAF).The IAF said it wanted and is planning for 45-50 fighter SQDs by 2027-30.

The EFT is a no go IMHO despite it being the L2 bidder.

Even if the EFT goes through you're looking at post 2019 deleiveries IMHO as it will take a good 2-3 years just to hammer out a deal and then another 3 years for first delivery. The case would be the same for additional MKI orders, you're not going to get delivers of these extra units for a good 4-5 years and then one has to ask what damage would an extension to HAL's MKI production lines do to the IAF's FGFA production as the FGFA is set to use the exact same MKI production lines and the FGFA's current production timelines are based on MKI prodcition coming to an end by the end of this decade for which re- tooling and expansion at Nasik has already begun. The knock-on effect to the FGFA program (an incredibly important project for the IAF) could be signifcant.

Then one has to say that neither the MKI nor EFT to adequately meet the IAF's vision for their Rafale's ie multi-role assets focusing primarily on the strike role. The MKI's is designated an "Air Dominace" fighter by the IAF. The EFT's A2G Capabilties or rather lack thereof have been clearly exposed and the all-solving Tranche 3 upgrade is a long way off and mostly unfunded by the partner nations as of now. The EFT too is designed to fight more in the A2A domain. The Rafale really is what the IAF wants and needs.


Like I said, it really is Rafale or bust for India/the IAF too (just don't tell the French that ).

eft is out due to cost reasons and will never make the cut.

if rafale goes(only ground possible is cost) then we will need something like mig-35 with massive retrofit making it cost somewhere between 60-70 million per plane with fga-35 aesa radar having 1000 t/r modules and some equipment meant for pakfa like maws and irst.

there is no way we are buying more rcs monsters like mki or tejas which is nothing but a point defence fighter comparable to jf-17

 

[[Bregs]]

Rafale is a must for India seeing our eastern border accquring different sorts of fighter aircrafts

 

[Abingdonboy]

eft is out due to cost reasons and will never make the cut.

if rafale goes(only ground possible is cost) then we will need something like mig-35 with massive retrofit making it cost somewhere between 60-70 million per plane with fga-35 aesa radar having 1000 t/r modules and some equipment meant for pakfa like maws and irst.

there is no way we are buying more rcs monsters like mki or tejas which is nothing but a point defence fighter comparable to jf-17

The last thing the IAF needs is the MIG-35. What are you looking at? 2-3 years to get a de signed, 2-3 more years for all your relevant upgrades/customisation to take place and then 3 years for the first deliveres to begin, this just is not good enough. Not to mention the IAF wants to diversify not get another Russian headache, I can see the IAF getting screwed on timelines and cost once again.

Then on has to wonder if such a deal would open the door to litigation from the likes of Boeing, LM, SAAB etc when the MIG-35 was KICKED OUT of the MMRCA for technical deficences but was allowed to win at the last moment? Of I was one of the others who weren't "down selected" I'd be fuming after having spent untold millions on the MMRCA competition in the belief everyone was on a lelvdl playing feild.


The MIG-35 is a rubbish option across the board IMHO.



RAFALE FTW

 

[he-man]

The last thing the IAF needs is the MIG-35. What are you looking at? 2-3 years to get a de signed, 2-3 more years for all your relevant upgrades/customisation to take place and then 3 years for the first deliveres to begin, this just is not good enough. Not to mention the IAF wants to diversify not get another Russian headache, I can see the IAF getting screwed on timelines and cost once again.

Then on has to wonder if such a deal would open the door to litigation from the likes of Boeing, LM, SAAB etc when the MIG-35 was KICKED OUT of the MMRCA for technical deficences but was allowed to win at the last moment? Of I was one of the others who weren't "down selected" I'd be fuming after having spent untold millions on the MMRCA competition in the belief everyone was on a lelvdl playing feild.


The MIG-35 is a rubbish option across the board IMHO.



RAFALE FTW

u never discuss on proper grounds

read my post properly first,,,,,am i comparing mig-35 with rafale??no
i am saying what if something happens and course to be followed after that

the deal will be signed easily if its cost effective.

and i want a mig-35 that costs 70 million dollars and carries some pakfa equipment and fga-35 aesa radar...................not the useless 35 million dollar mig-35 on display for mmrca trials

if thats not possible then even i am not sold on mig-35

 

[prandtl]

I don't know whether this tread is proper one to ask the doubt.
but can any one tell me whether rafale is designed using Area Rule?,because i can see Change in Area just ahead of Diffuser Inlet.
i always think it served two purpose
1) Implementing Area Rule to reduce Drag cause sometimes i think those Engine used in Rafale are underpowered
2)Guided way for Air to Diffuser inlet.

Now that was just my doubt! so plz don't Shout on ME that i'm outa mind or Crazy and all.

 

[halloweene]

About Area rule, definitely yes. Do you realize that Dassault Systemes is building the software used to design F35 (Catia)... And that Dassault Aviation ALWAYS have the most advanced version (in fact last version is able to generate equations instead of being simply a 3D software), and NeuroN is the first ever "plane" fully designed on a virtual platform between several countries?