Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[SpArK]

HAL to discuss Rafale production with Dassault tomorrow.

 

[IND151]

Livefist: Hope To Sign M-MRCA Deal By Year End: IAF Chief

 

[SpArK]

Dassault says 31 Rafale evaluation sorties have been flown in Doha last July.

All of them involved the AESA version of the RBE2 radar.

 

[sancho]

French president to negotiate $12bn Rafale jet deal in India next week

France's Dassault Aviation hopes to conclude its $12-billion deal to sell Rafale jets to India this year, with negotiations set to be taken up by President Francois Hollande next week.

"The ideal would be to sign it in 2013," Dassault chief executive Eric Trappier told AFP in an interview about the world's biggest defence deal at India's air show in Bangalore...


...He also confirmed Indian negotiators had detailed their needs for an additional 63 planes beyond the initial order of 126, as reported after a visit by foreign minister Salman Khurshid to Paris in January.

"It's to let us know that they'll need the assembly lines for a long time," he said...

French president to negotiate $12bn Rafale jet deal in India next week - The Times of India


An important point, because for once it makes clear that MoD/IAF still wants just 18 x Rafales build in France (silly imo), but also that we might continue to build it even in 2025, next to FGFA and LCA, which again shows that there is no requirement for another fighter type (AMCA) in IAF.

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[jha]

^^^ Ek hi engine chal raha hai..? Doosra kharab hai Kya..?

 

[kingdurgaking]

French president to negotiate $12bn Rafale jet deal in India next week - The Times of India


An important point, because for once it makes clear that MoD/IAF still wants just 18 x Rafales build in France (silly imo), but also that we might continue to build it even in 2025, next to FGFA and LCA, which again shows that there is no requirement for another fighter type (AMCA) in IAF.

As of defence field is considered ... there is no concept called requirement.. you take a living bird.. train them.. that can do some job that is useful for military a doctrine will be created around it... AMCA may not look like a requirement now ... but (if ) developed it will find a place.. may be in less quantity like tejas...

 

[jha]

For Rafale Fans...

 

[sancho]

As of defence field is considered ... there is no concept called requirement.. you take a living bird.. train them.. that can do some job that is useful for military a doctrine will be created around it... AMCA may not look like a requirement now ... but (if ) developed it will find a place.. may be in less quantity like tejas...

That's the problem, IAF don't need it, but they are not stupid to say no if GoI would be ready to fund such a development, that currently is only based on ADA/DRDOs personal interests. If it will be a success, they (IAF) can show off with it as well, if not ADA and DRDO is to blame and IN must look the get the best out of the rest.
However, for our country that is not the best way and why I want it to be a stealthy carrier fighter in first place, because that what we really need!

 

[MilSpec]

As of defence field is considered ... there is no concept called requirement.. you take a living bird.. train them.. that can do some job that is useful for military a doctrine will be created around it... AMCA may not look like a requirement now ... but (if ) developed it will find a place.. may be in less quantity like tejas...

On contrary the AMCA seems to have a very larger requirement, replacing, jaguars, mirages and mig29's. I am just hoping that AMCA is designed as a naval stealth fighter adopted to airforce instead of the other way around.

 

[kingdurgaking]

That's the problem, IAF don't need it, but they are not stupid to say no if GoI would be ready to fund such a development, that currently is only based on ADA/DRDOs personal interests. If it will be a success, they (IAF) can show off with it as well, if not ADA and DRDO is to blame and IN must look the get the best out of the rest.
However, for our country that is not the best way and why I want it to be a stealthy carrier fighter in first place, because that what we really need!

The thing which i am trying to explain here is ... we dont know what requirement will be there after 10-15 yrs... if we think Rafale can solve all the problem of the threat perception that is arising in next 10 -15 yrs then we are wrong... Rafale is a immediate requirement to fill the gaps... if you see MMRCA... if IAF needs the best then it is only F-35 ... but they are not ready to wait.. they dont find a threat perception from enemy that will attack.. they have a threat perception of depleting capable fighter .... if AMCA is developed the way IAF want and suits them well then Rafale will not be upgraded or money will not be spent on future upgrade.. It will be moved in secondary locations like south , andaman etc.. and AMCA will be doing the role of Rafale.. while PAK-FA will be doing the role of MKI.. 10-15 yrs there is going to be a dramatic change in all the dimensions .... if AMCA is not capable then definitely F-35 will enter the equation or more PAK-FA...

Thats why i say in defence there is no concept called requirement...

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

^^^ Ek hi engine chal raha hai..? Doosra kharab hai Kya..?

No..it's part of Austerity measures.:-D

 

[kingdurgaking]

On contrary the AMCA seems to have a very larger requirement, replacing, jaguars, mirages and mig29's. I am just hoping that AMCA is designed as a naval stealth fighter adopted to airforce instead of the other way around.

It is having lot of requirement ... but seeing HAL - ADA combination i am expecting one more LCA saga.. we havent mastered the micro technology ... then think of nano technologies that will be more common at that time frame... none of our curriculum is having any details about it.. there is only few research going on few universities... not sure how much they can support our needs... see the western curriculum.. research are going on full wing in many university on this space.. you should not be surprised on the out come.

 

[MilSpec]

It is having lot of requirement ... but seeing HAL - ADA combination i am expecting one more LCA saga.. we havent mastered the micro technology ... then think of nano technologies that will be more common at that time frame... none of our curriculum is having any details about it.. there is only few research going on few universities... not sure how much they can support our needs... see the western curriculum.. research are going on full wing in many university on this space.. you should not be surprised on the out come.

"micro technology" What now ?
I wrote three journal papers on nanotech almost 9 years ago in my bachelors, trust me there is a crap load of research on it.

Now as far as research funding goes, hold your horses on that, we are not the west, half our population goes to bed hungry, whatever money we are flashing has generated in less than two decades. There is a long long loooooonnnnnggg way to go before you see western model of research in our universities.

And for the outcome I am very optimistic, we are not in the forefront of technological breakthroughs, we are in a sense replicating certain feature in an aircraft already done by certain nation, hence the parameters are well defined with available technology proliferation/collaboration from tech giants like israel, Russia and france. It's not that we are setting out to make something never seen before in the world like americans/germans did. AMCA is achievable, and hopefully LCA will do the same for amca, what ALH did for the LCH!

 

[ejaz007]

Contracts and Key Events


Feb 7/13: India. While a French Rafale-B performs at Aero India 2013, negotiations grind on. India’s defence minister, A K Antony, describes negotiations as a 6-7 layer process, which then has to be sent to the Ministry of Finance. There will be no deal during Aero India, as the contract simply isn’t ready. Antony adds that coming defense budget cuts won’t delay the Rafale deal, but an election looms in 2014.

India’s Financial Express cites anonymous “highly placed sources” who say that remaining friction involves industrial issues. The Dassault team that visited the HAL facility in Nashik were said to have been disappointed by the infrastructure in place, and concerned that HAL will have trouble absorbing the required technology. They’re also reportedly wrestling with India’s insistence on giving HAL ‘lead integrator’ responsibility for decisions about workshare with other companies, while sticking Dassault with overall responsibility for the project. The French are trying to use the RFP as a starting point for discussions, while India insists that the RFP’s terms are the final word. Economic Times | Financial Express.

Jan 28/13: PDL NG The DGA commits a EUR 55 million risk reduction contract for Thales to develop the next-generation PDL NG surveillance and targeting pod, as the successor to the Damocles pod. Another EUR 115 million tranche is expected by year end, and deliveries are expected to take place beginning in about 5 years, from 2018-2022.

The DGA touts this as a boost to the export attractiveness of French fighter jets, which is true. Targeting pods have become such an important ancillary that the Rafale can’t really remain competitive without one that meets modern high-end standards. It’s essentially part of the Fighter’s life-cycle modernization plan. Unlike its European competitors, which use LITENING-III pods from Israel, France is keeping full control over the technology and exportability by designing its own.

The bad news is twofold. One is that the Rafale will receive a pod in 2018 that’s roughly equal to Sniper-SE and LITENING-SE pods being delivered right now. High design modularity ensures that both of its competitors will continue to evolve, swapping in better sensors and new technologies by the time PDL-NG appears.

The 2nd bit of bad news is that France’s need to do this themselves results in a final expected cost per targeting pod of EUR 10 million, in order to equip the French Rafale fleet with 45. Exports could help boost PDL-NG production, but first the Rafale must win some foreign orders. India, whose Mirage 2000s are getting life extensions, is an important target for both the Rafale and PDL-NG

France’s Rafale Fighters: Au Courant In Time?