Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[nitesh]

pitching for MRCA

EADS Defence plans new industrial base in India | Reuters

EADS Defence plans new industrial base in India
Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:01pm IST

NEWPORT, Wales, Jan 13 (Reuters) - EADS' (EAD.PA: Quote, Profile, Research) defence unit is set to announce a new operation in India, possibly via an acquisition, as it targets further expansion overseas, a senior company executive said on Tuesday.

"We are preparing to set up an industrial base in India -- we have a dedicated team working on it," the French group's defence and security chief Stefan Zoller told reporters, adding that the group was in advanced talks.

"The most booming market for defence that has not already been captured is India ... also there are many skilled engineers in India," he said.

Zoller was speaking on the sidelines of the annual EADS press conference, held at one of the group's manufacturing centres in Britain. [ID:nLD182163]

He also said he expected to deliver the full quota of Eurofighter planes to countries which had placed orders, despite an effort by the UK and Italy to renegotiate the final tranche of 88 planes.

Britain, Italy, Germany and Spain originally agreed to take 620 fighter planes in three stages.

Zoller said he wanted a deal secured by the end of the first quarter of 2009 and expected it to involve the delivery of half the planes now and half later.

"The industry understands it must expect (just) half now, but it can't accept that the overall order for 620 planes will be compromised," he said. (Reporting by John Bowker and Tim Hepher; Editing by David Holmes)

 

[nitesh]

guys Gripen is out it seems:

5 in fray for IAF's $10-bn deal for 126 aircraft

According to sources, based on the recommendations made by the TEC, after examining the technical bids, the Swedish "JAS 39 Gripen" has failed to make grade on the technology front for the deal. "The recommendations were made last week and now the ministry of defence has to take a final decision on this," sources explained.

 

[nitesh]

LCA, buddy what do you think this competition is heading. After Gripen NG is out from competition

 

[LCA]

LCA, buddy what do you think this competition is heading. After Gripen NG is out from competition

Let me Take one by one:

F-16 And F-18:Both are US contender so TOT will be a problem.And F-16 is going to phase out when F-35 come into action,similar is the case for F-18 but its F-18E/F block is very advance jet and may be indian navy go for it, not sure about this.And there is absolute no for F-16 because our friend pakistan have lot of hands on experience on this plane.

Rafael:TOT is not a big issue.And with new Asea RBE-2(AA) it will be a good choice.Also,IAF can take it as upgradation of M2K.But cost is the issue.

EF:no problem expect price and the no. of countries involved in this project,which can be or cannot be a problem

so, i am going for either EF or Rafael.

Now,if this possible,just for hypothesis,if we can fix kaveri and indian asea then the logistic part can be drastically reduced.

As both Rafael and EF want india to join in their development programe or ready for TOT.

What you say

 

[nitesh]

Please spell the competitors correct it is RAFALE not RAFAEL (Israeli company)

You just missed the MiG35 don't count Russians out at least as yet. The gentleman who has made the MKI deal is heading MiG now.


I am not in favor of EF as the member countries especially UK is interested towards F 35 for carriers so I don't think they will be interested much in to EF in future. Same will stand for other countries also.

Regarding rafale it is an excellent machine and there last chance to grab such a big order.

I don't think IAF will be interested in F 16 until Lockheed can offer the F 35 in future.

If we see F 18 has a good chance as US navy will be operating it and it is quite a mature platform. Recently IAF has rejected snecma offer for co development of kaveri engine. Now EJ 200 and GE 414 are in fray for engine going to power LCA. F 18 also uses GE 414.

What you say

 

[LCA]

IAF should not go for Mig-35 as it will increase the dependency on russia And after Gorshkov and T-90 hell no.

I think we both agree about F-16 selection ,even Lockheed offer f-35 then also there is a long line of customer before india.so it is better to keep away from it.

Now EF, yes UK is going for F-35 for her 2 aircraft carrier.but for ground support they can go for EF.Apart from this, EF is most advance fighter in the present time after F-22 , in the line of Su-30 MKI,F-18 and Rafale(is it correct?)

Yes F-18 uses 414 but that is a temporary solution as far as DRDO is concern.
It is a great fighter for navy but not so sure about ground support in desert and high altitude.but the main problem is TOT not even for aesa radar
and also various agreement about the usage of US technology

For Rafale, as you say it is a excellent machine and IAF already have infrastructure for M2K which can be use for rafale.Ready for TOT.

that's why EF or rafale will be better

 

[nitesh]

Rafale is a true multi role fighter and we can squeeze french as of now because they desperately need some big customer. But regarding the type of weapons and net centric operations. F 18 is way ahead. But yes ToT is a big issue.

 

[LCA]

As you say we can squeeze french for now, so we can ask them to make rafale capable of carring any type of weapon and also work with DRDO to put rafale in to the network-centric model which IAF is asking for.

And also may be American equipment are war-proven but you cann't say they are the best.French are very good in their avionics, that's why DRDO go for them in ABM and SU-30MKI.

 

[nitesh]

French have already said that they will share the source codes also. So customization should not be an issue. Any way the best thing would be to let the trials begin. Then we will be coming to know about IAF preferences. But any way final decision is with political leadership.

 

[LCA]

yeah, the political leadership,that where talking logical make no sense.
i only hope that IAF make best out of this deal.

 

[nitesh]

oops Gripen says they are very much in competition:

Gripen Denies It Failed MMRCA Evaluation | AVIATION WEEK

 

[Moscow]

sir i would like to float an idea
is there any possibilty that the deal might be split between 2 contenders with a minor increase < or without increase >in the numbers from 126 to say 156.
in that way the deal can be divided between the russian and french if iaf is satisfied with their performance it wont be much of a technical hazard as iaf has the infrastructure and handling of both russian and french fighters.

even this might apply to the us companies.
is it anyhow possible?

 

[nitesh]

moscow the deal contains an option of buying 126 and then future option of 74 more. The splitting idea seems good as at least it can increase the rate of induction. With force number declining it will be good. But will the companies agree to offer the same level of ToT if suppose the order is broken up between two entities and both get order for 100 planes? This will be tricky situation.

 

[Moscow]

ok sir lets assume this the original tender goes to the french and even i personally believe theirs is the best to suit the iaf needs.
even then the rest 74 can be procured from mig, actually mig is in a deep finincial crisis ,its awaiting funds from the goverment and its no secret sukhoi has recently cut its market worldwide so they are always willing to consider their decesion,the indians can bargain hard with the mig corp for additional incentives for the future which they will be more than willing to supply.

all these scenerio comes up when the americans if the americans are not willing for full tot.

given the present political situation it will be very hard to choose betwwen the americans and russians so the french might be the best option

 

[Moscow]

also we neeed to consider that recent orders from the indians have all gone to the americans.it might be a signal that the indians are not willing to irk the americans by giving them other big procurement deals while the mrca goes to the french or the russians.