Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[egodoc222]

Had a brief talk with a top Dassault executive today, will try to sum up fomorrow, late at night here.

please do

 

[Sergi]

Had a brief talk with a top Dassault executive today, will try to sum up fomorrow, late at night here.

Please add my user name in "mention" when you do it. Thanks in advance.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@sancho


3. I too dont think it will be scrapped but .....You never know and Dassault isnt really showing any need to wrap up early.

Ummm....


Dassault CEO interview:

[...]
The military planning law bet that 7 Rafale will be exported in 2016. Is it too late?

No. The White Paper on Defence decreased the size of the air force to 225 fighter planes. There are still one hundred Rafale to deliver. Budgetary problems are known and identified. So the Ministry of Defence and Dassault have made a bet to overcome this difficulty with export. If ever this bet was not won, we planned to meet again in 2015.

So you can wait end of 2015 to sign the first contract?

Let us say early 2015.

Where are you with the negotiations with India?

They are progressing well. It is long because it is complex. The negotiations involve the sale of 126 combat aircraft, but also the licensed production of virtually all components of the aircraft. This implies many agreements with local industry, HAL in particular. The second difficulty is elections in India in the spring. We are mobilized to finish everything before. If it is after, we will have to wait a new government to be formed, which will be fast, and to revisit the subject. But as the file will be prepared by the administration and the army that will remain in place, this could be finalized before the end of 2014.

The death of the Indian chief negotiator would have disrupted the negotiations ...

Totally false.

What does the Eurofighter side, which lost in the final against the Rafale, to destabilize you?

Whatever he does, it's not an issue for me. Eurofighter won't come back. Why would Indians start from scratch after spending so much energy for years? why as the Rafale was considered better and cheaper with a willingness to transfer important technology for the modernization of the Indian industry?

The lesson of the failure in Brazil is that the Rafale can interest only a handful of countries ?

If by "handful of countries' you mean at least five, then yes. The Rafale is made for war. It therefore attract the interest of countries that show a certain maturity in the field. This is the case of India.
[...]

Full interview:
http://www.lesechos.fr/entreprises-s...nce-642220.php


They've shown an intent to finish before the elections and are fully aware of them.




Also you're waaay off the mark mate- the talk of going for the F-18 is jus tout of the question.

 

[SpArK]

Ummm....


Dassault CEO interview:

[...]
The military planning law bet that 7 Rafale will be exported in 2016. Is it too late?

No. The White Paper on Defence decreased the size of the air force to 225 fighter planes. There are still one hundred Rafale to deliver. Budgetary problems are known and identified. So the Ministry of Defence and Dassault have made a bet to overcome this difficulty with export. If ever this bet was not won, we planned to meet again in 2015.

So you can wait end of 2015 to sign the first contract?

Let us say early 2015.

Where are you with the negotiations with India?

They are progressing well. It is long because it is complex. The negotiations involve the sale of 126 combat aircraft, but also the licensed production of virtually all components of the aircraft. This implies many agreements with local industry, HAL in particular. The second difficulty is elections in India in the spring. We are mobilized to finish everything before. If it is after, we will have to wait a new government to be formed, which will be fast, and to revisit the subject. But as the file will be prepared by the administration and the army that will remain in place, this could be finalized before the end of 2014.

The death of the Indian chief negotiator would have disrupted the negotiations ...

Totally false.

What does the Eurofighter side, which lost in the final against the Rafale, to destabilize you?

Whatever he does, it's not an issue for me. Eurofighter won't come back. Why would Indians start from scratch after spending so much energy for years? why as the Rafale was considered better and cheaper with a willingness to transfer important technology for the modernization of the Indian industry?

The lesson of the failure in Brazil is that the Rafale can interest only a handful of countries ?

If by "handful of countries' you mean at least five, then yes. The Rafale is made for war. It therefore attract the interest of countries that show a certain maturity in the field. This is the case of India.
[...]

Full interview:
http://www.lesechos.fr/entreprises-s...nce-642220.php


They've shown an intent to finish before the elections and are fully aware of them.




Also you're waaay off the mark mate- the talk of going for the F-18 is jus tout of the question.

The Rafale is made for war. It therefore attract the interest of countries that show a certain maturity in the field. This is the case of India.

I like this part.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I like this part.

Indeed, more than a bit of a poke at the Brazilians!

 

[SrNair]

Indeed, more than a bit of a poke at the Brazilians!

Rafale is a high caliber fighter.Brazil doesnt need it.Their neighbours is neither hostile nor powerful.

 

[Taygibay]

Air & Cosmos reports on the AESA use. Not all informations ( such as range ) correlate with other sources but since it's penned by Guillaume Steuer, it should be mostly accurate. Interesting read overall with value for the Indians to extrapolate possible IAF tactics from.
French Air Force enters the AESA Era - Air&Cosmos
Good day all, Tay.

 

[halloweene]

So, don't expect breaking news, Dassault's politics is to let the client speak.
Just a few hints on prices quoted. They are fantasies. Technical contracts are closed to be wrapped.
India estimated both acquisition costs and owner lifetime cost. Very precisely, including indian updates costs. The price of the plane didnt move since.
What can explain an "escalation" of costs is industrialization cost, which wasnt included in MMRCA negotiations for obvious reasons.
It is costly to build new factories, train people etc. ToT is fully opened and it is India that define what tech they want to be transferred, but also pay for it (training, facilities etc.)
He didn't seem worried by indian elections.
Dassault do not want to communicate on indian press articles, low profile is the rule, they consider that it is client's prerogative.

My two cents : IAF HAL etc wont deny anything while negociating...

 

[sancho]

1. Yes Relience got its share though Dassault and will keep it if everything goes as plan. But its in MODs hand to allow or reject the partners. Same thing happened in arty remember ??? And we are talking about after

Only based on issues with the manufacturer, like an ongoing investigation, or blacklisting like for the howitzers, they can't reject Dassaults partners without reasons.

2. Yes. 100%. But right now their interest are matching ours and vice versa. I believe if US give us rights to produce F-18s and TOT of its engines. We might agree. Radar and avionics can be arranged from other sources.

They give us the right to produce the fighter, just not of the important techs and that are the radar and avionics, if you take that away, there is nothing left that could be remotly interesting in the F18, not to mention that it already doesn't fulfill IAF requirements. So that is a dead end for sure and no, we can't get radar and avionics from other sources, since the US don't allow such customizations.

Indeed, more than a bit of a poke at the Brazilians!

Or a justification for the loss there.

 

[Sergi]

Ummm....

They've shown an intent to finish before the elections and are fully aware of them.

I disagree. I have my reasons.

Also you're waaay off the mark mate- the talk of going for the F-18 is jus tout of the question.

Thats was an imaginary situation but still can be considered as a possibility.

 

[Last Samuri]

DOES ANYBODY actually think this will stil happen. ie that INDIA will sign for 125 rafales costing indian $30 billion over the next two decades

 

[godofwar]

DOES ANYBODY actually think this will stil happen. ie that INDIA will sign for 125 rafales costing indian $30 billion over the next two decades

Its looking less and less likely as the days go by.
Gripen would have been perfect for us if it weren't so similar to Tejas.

 

[trident2010]

$30bn for 125 planes not worth. Induct Tejas MK2 and FGFAs

 

[Superboy]

30 billion for 125 planes, that's 240 million each. Why would Rafale be as expensive as F-22? Makes no sense.

 

[Abingdonboy]

30 billion for 125 planes, that's 240 million each. Why would Rafale be as expensive as F-22? Makes no sense.

It doesn't does it? Maybe because that figure is 100% BS.