Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Abingdonboy]

Believe Cameron managed to bring down the price of Typhoon....Some time back there was news that, he was discussing with rest of the Eurofighter partner about the price.

So what????

 

[shree835]

So what????

Before few days back I saw a documentary on NDTV…As they says Now French are coming up with the different conditions and TOT pricing …Due to that Pricing of MMRCA deal is going high….And Britain is keeping close eyes on it. So might be we can see something surprising.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Before few days back I saw a documentary on NDTV…As they says Now French are coming up with the different conditions and TOT pricing …Due to that Pricing of MMRCA deal is going high….And Britain is keeping close eyes on it. So might be we can see something surprising.

No chance- if the L1 candidate (Dassualt) cannot deliver then the deal is scrapped- it doesn't automatically go to the L2 contender- this would just lead to every contender in these bids to intially purpsfully over-pricing allowing the L1 contender to enter into talks and then for this L2 candidate to come back with a revised bid and undercutting the L1 bidder! L2 contenders cannot revise their bids and re-submit them to the MoD- this would make a mockery of the entire process!


No matter what David Cameron says, there is next to 0 chance of the EFT now winning the MMRCA deal. If talks between the MoD/GoI and Dssualt collapse this will mark the end of the MMRCA competition, India is unlikely to launch a revised MMRCA bid, instead it will order more MKIs and LCAs and hope the FGFA and AMCA come sooner than later.


Don't believe what the fools in the Indian press tell you. Listen to what the French Pres had to say a few days ago- talks are going well.

 

[shree835]

No chance- if the L1 candidate (Dassualt) cannot deliver then the deal is scrapped- it doesn't automatically go to the L2 contender- this would just lead to every contender in these bids to intially purpsfully over-pricing allowing the L1 contender to enter into talks and then for this L2 candidate to come back with a revised bid and undercutting the L1 bidder! L2 contenders cannot revise their bids and re-submit them to the MoD- this would make a mockery of the entire process!


No matter what David Cameron says, there is next to 0 chance of the EFT now winning the MMRCA deal. If talks between the MoD/GoI and Dssualt collapse this will mark the end of the MMRCA competition, India is unlikely to launch a revised MMRCA bid, instead it will order more MKIs and LCAs and hope the FGFA and AMCA come sooner than later.


Don't believe what the fools in the Indian press tell you. Listen to what the French Pres had to say a few days ago- talks are going well.

Discussion was there on National News Channel, not sure how far one can agree with them.... Can u link me the details what French say on MMRCA deal...??

 

[Bang Galore]

No chance- if the L1 candidate (Dassualt) cannot deliver then the deal is scrapped- it doesn't automatically go to the L2 contender- this would just lead to every contender in these bids to intially purpsfully over-pricing allowing the L1 contender to enter into talks and then for this L2 candidate to come back with a revised bid and undercutting the L1 bidder! L2 contenders cannot revise their bids and re-submit them to the MoD- this would make a mockery of the entire process!

I don't think you are correct. L2 cannot revise the bid after L1 has been selected for negotiations, however if the deal fails for whatever reason with L1, L2 can be called for negotiations. L2 is there for a precise reason, to let L1 know that there is someone else at the door.

I do agree that the chances for EF are miniscule but there is a chance, a very very small one. The deals is the France's to lose and nothing I have seen suggests that they will lose it.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Discussion was there on National News Channel, not sure how far one can agree with them.... Can u link me the details what French say on MMRCA deal...??

Talks on Rafale deal progressing well, PM says after meeting French president - Times Of India

BBC News - Manmohan Singh: French fighter jet talks 'going well'


Rafale deal talks with India progressing well: French Prez, Work , Aninews

Rafale deal talks with India progressing well: French - newsR VIDEO

Rafale jet talks brighten after rough patch | Reuters

Rafale deal discussions with India progressing well, says French president | IND TV USA

 

[MehrotraPrince]

 

[MehrotraPrince]

Old but interesting news about RBE2 AESA Radar as well as Meteor BVR Missile trials, tests were conducted on 4th and 10th Oct 2012.

 

[DrSomnath999]

GULF NEWS CLAIM FRENCH RAFALE LOST IN INDIA & INDIA TO GO FOR TYPHOON

Negotiations on for fighter deal

In a reply to a question on UAE purchase of Rafale or Typhoon fighters, Al Ketbi said that two teams are in negotiations with both companies.
“There are two teams and they are in negotiations. The UAE Armed Forces will announce these deals in due time, once reached,” said Al Ketbi.
According to military experts, the UAE has almost turned down the deal with France after it lost its deal with India. “The Indians will be purchasing the British Typhoon fighter,” they said.
Theodore Karasik, head of research and consultancy at the Institute for the Near East and Gulf Military Analysis (INEGMA), told the Gulf News that the British prime minister is in Indian now for this deal.
“The British PM is in Indian for this fighter deal and he might be coming to the UAE to seal the deal with the UAE government to purchase Typhoon fighters,” said Karasik.

UAE Armed Forces sign 17 deals | GulfNews.com

Seriously Is this Staff reporter is insane or on drugs ,i mean He had declare rafale the loser & india gonna buy Typhoon.


I mean ( W.T.F) is this reporter thinking

Well dassault should sue this author for garbage reporting

 

[sancho]

Wrt Thales - Samtel and Rafale offests once more, some reports from Aero India:

MMRCA offset and technology transfer negotiations continue. The new Samtel-Thales Avionics joint venture will be “the first electro-optic house in the country,” said executive director Puneet Kaura. By 2015, the company intends to supply the infrared search-and-track system as standard equipment for the Dassault Rafale fighter for the Indian Air Force. Meanwhile, the Thales-Bharat Electronics surface radar joint venture will be fully operational by March, Eric Lenseigne, Thales’s country head for India, told AIN.

Two joint ventures involving Tata also reported progress: one with Lockheed Martin supplies airframe parts for the C-130J as an offset for the Indian buy; the other with Sikorsky supplies cabins for the S-92 helicopter.

Budget Cuts, Offsets and Tech Transfer Are Hot Topics at Aero India | Aviation International News

Which again shows that FSO might be produced in India, including diverting the production of the IR channel, which French forces don't buy anymore, but is available as an option for India and other export customers.

 

[Abingdonboy]

GULF NEWS CLAIM FRENCH RAFALE LOST IN INDIA & INDIA TO GO FOR TYPHOON



Seriously Is this Staff reporter is insane or on drugs ,i mean He had declare rafale the loser & india gonna buy Typhoon.


I mean ( W.T.F) is this reporter thinking

Well dassault should sue this author for garbage reporting

And I thought Indian media was bad!

What an effing joke!

 

[anant_s]

I don't think you are correct. L2 cannot revise the bid after L1 has been selected for negotiations, however if the deal fails for whatever reason with L1, L2 can be called for negotiations. L2 is there for a precise reason, to let L1 know that there is someone else at the door.

I do agree that the chances for EF are miniscule but there is a chance, a very very small one. The deals is the France's to lose and nothing I have seen suggests that they will lose it.

No thats not the case.
I'll describe the procedure briefly.
In two part tender system, a bidder is asked to submit two envelopes one containing technical bid and the other contains commercial bid with some validity date.
Now first technical bids are opened and evaluated in manner prescribed in initial tendering stage (in MMRCa for example they had technical evaluation by means of data and capability submitted by manufacturer and later by actual flights).
This data is compiled in form of a Technical Evaluation Report, which is then sent to a committee that goes through the recommendations and selects which of the bidders meet the technical requirements described in tender. Effectively it is a filtering process.
After this they open commercial bids which obviously contains certain conditions on pricing. The whole costing is done (in MMRCA case Life cycle cost was selection criteria) and based on this bidders are ranked Lowest 1, Lowest 2.. (L-1, L-2 etc). Now as a standard procedure, the results are announced and L-1 is called for negotiations which are underway. the more complex the negotiations more is the time taken for talks.
Now supposing the talks fail on some account, L-2 cannot be called for negotiations (and hence the order) and as per exisitng CVC guidelines, the whole process is re-tendered.
However this inevitably means cost escalations.

However my view on the talks is that both Indian and French governments till date have spoken very little on the negotiations and that too has been positive.
It is our media who is spreading these stories of Talks failing etc and i don't think these stroies should be paid any attention.
On a lighter note Think of a Girl's father who is looking for a prospective groom, he has all right to take his own sweet time to be fully assured that he is taking the best possible decision, isn't it?

 

[Sergi]

No thats not the case.
I'll describe the procedure briefly.
In two part tender system, a bidder is asked to submit two envelopes one containing technical bid and the other contains commercial bid with some validity date.
Now first technical bids are opened and evaluated in manner prescribed in initial tendering stage (in MMRCa for example they had technical evaluation by means of data and capability submitted by manufacturer and later by actual flights).
This data is compiled in form of a Technical Evaluation Report, which is then sent to a committee that goes through the recommendations and selects which of the bidders meet the technical requirements described in tender. Effectively it is a filtering process.
After this they open commercial bids which obviously contains certain conditions on pricing. The whole costing is done (in MMRCA case Life cycle cost was selection criteria) and based on this bidders are ranked Lowest 1, Lowest 2.. (L-1, L-2 etc). Now as a standard procedure, the results are announced and L-1 is called for negotiations which are underway. the more complex the negotiations more is the time taken for talks.
Now supposing the talks fail on some account, L-2 cannot be called for negotiations (and hence the order) and as per exisitng CVC guidelines, the whole process is re-tendered.
However this inevitably means cost escalations.

However my view on the talks is that both Indian and French governments till date have spoken very little on the negotiations and that too has been positive.
It is our media who is spreading these stories of Talks failing etc and i don't think these stroies should be paid any attention.
On a lighter note Think of a Girl's father who is looking for a prospective groom, he has all right to take his own sweet time to be fully assured that he is taking the best possible decision, isn't it?

Rafael and EF were short listed on Techinical norms. And commercial bits make Rafale L1 and EF L2.

Standard procedure is to negotiate with L1 and keep L2 on standby. If negotiations fail L2 will be call in for tender and negotiations start with them.

If it fail with L2 too then the tender itself will be scrapped as only two contenders were short listed.

There is a reason why EF side played a lot of games. And in fact there are many statements availbe which say EF will revise its bit in negotiations if talks with Rafale fail , which they want to.

 

[sancho]

Some pics and news of the last few days:

Google translated

Defence plans to stop orders of 225 copies

The government plans to reduce the final target of Rafale, which could increase from 286 to 225 units, according to several sources. Savings that would be generated in the very long term. And the Air Force change of model...

Link

 

[sancho]

Some of Rafales hardpoint configs: