Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[sancho]

Crossposting from the MP forum:

Eric Trappier (Dassault CEO) Interview , BFMTV; March 18

- "Negotiations continue with India"
- "Industrial clauses are longer to negotiate"
- "With the Indian authorities, we set a goal [end of negotiations] this summer"
- "18 aircraft will be entirely built in France, and then there will be a gradual increase in the manufacture of parts in India, step by step, to reach in the end 75/80% of the aircraft"
- "This first contract is important, there will be a ripple effect"

Credits to Olybrius

 

[anant_s]

With the Indian authorities, we set a goal [end of negotiations] this summer

Thats very encouraging to note and hope should silence the Doubting Thomases

 

[sancho]

Thats very encouraging to note and hope should silence the Doubting Thomases

Yes, but also that such a high ammount of each fighter will be build in India, will boost our industry for sure and that's what MoD wanted with this competition.

 

[anant_s]

Yes, but also that such a high ammount of each fighter will be build in India, will boost our industry for sure and that's what MoD wanted with this competition.

Absolutely, GoI wanted not just hardware for IAF but also give a boost to Indian aviation manufacturing industry.
Who knows if Dassault and HAL are able to develop some local vendors for few parts of the assembly and Rafale wins more orders around the world, France may outsource part of manufacturing to India making Rafale even more competitive. This is a win-win situation for both countries.

 

[sancho]

Rafale costs for French forces

Ttotal program cost - 44.2 billion €

Unit cost (excluding development costs):

Rafale B (Two-seater) - 71.2 M € / 92,2 M $
Rafale C (Single-seater) - 66.2 M € / 84,5 M $
Rafale M (Naval) - 76.1 M € / 97,1 M $

http://www.senat.fr/rap/a12-150-8/a12-150-81.pdf

 

[Abingdonboy]

Rafale costs for French forces

Ttotal program cost - 44.2 billion €

Unit cost (excluding development costs):

Rafale B (Two-seater) - 71.2 M € / 92,2 M $
Rafale C (Single-seater) - 66.2 M € / 84,5 M $
Rafale M (Naval) - 76.1 M € / 97,1 M $

http://www.senat.fr/rap/a12-150-8/a12-150-81.pdf

Whoa, this boggles the mind! The unit costs have been speculated for some time but now of this is the official amount, just WOW!

It will be interesting if production in India has any affect on the unit price, IMHO the savings/increases will be negligible when production begins on India.

 

[anant_s]

France on Tuesday dangled the possibility of manufacturing its Rafale fighter plane in Malaysia if the nation selected the aircraft as its new combat jet.

“We are considering an assembly line in Malaysia,” said Eric Trappier, chief executive of the Rafale’s builder Dassault Aviation, in a telephone interview from the Langkawi air show in northern Malaysia.
Malaysia is looking to buy 18 combat fighters to replace its ageing Russian Mig-29s, with the Eurofighter, Boeing’s F-18 and Saab’s Gripen also in the running.

The multi-role Rafale, which entered service in the French military in 2001, can carry out air-ground or air-sea attacks, reconnaissance, aerial interception or nuclear strike missions.

France is keen to make its first foreign sale of the Rafale, which has struggled to find buyers, to support a project that has cost tens of billions of euros.

India has selected the Rafale, with most of the 126 fighter jets they plan to buy expected to be built there if the final contract is signed this year as hoped.

Malaysia is keen for its local companies to be involved in the manufacturing, and Trappier said that Dassault has spent considerable effort in lining up local suppliers should the Rafale be selected.

Dassault has already signed deals with Malaysian companies CTRM, Zetro Aerospace and Sapura, he noted.

Two Rafales were at the Langkawi air show to provide demonstration flights.

France says Malaysia can build jets if it buys Rafale | idrw.org

France is deseprately trying to find new markets for Rafale. But yes as @ Sancho has pointed out, the unit price tags are very high and unless some sort of outsourcing of manufacturing and/or new buyers are found, this is too big a burden for france to shoulder alone.

 

[sancho]

It will be interesting if production in India has any affect on the unit price, IMHO the savings/increases will be negligible when production begins on India.

No doubt and since that price also included taxes in Europe, the cost produced in India should be different. However our total cost will also include licence production costs, but at least it gives a hint on the Rafale costs compared to other fighters.

France is deseprately trying to find new markets for Rafale. But yes as @ Sancho has pointed out, the unit price tags are very high and unless some sort of outsourcing of manufacturing and/or new buyers are found, this is too big a burden for france to shoulder alone.

Actually, by the fact that Dassault is making much more money with the civil aerospace sales and that they only join competitions now, where politics seems to have less importance (did not competet in S.Korea and Japan), it shows that they aren't so desperate like the EF consortium for example.
On the other hand, Thales, Sagem or the French government would definitely want exports, since that would benefit them too.

Wrt to the price, it actually shows that the flyaway cost is as expected earlier at a reasonable level, below of what the EF partners pay (around $100 M per fighter) and even the USN pays around $68 M each F18SH according their budgets releases and it is technically less capable than the Rafale.
What is more costly for the Rafale are the system costs, which includes spares, training and support, just like the costs for European weapons are higher compared to US once.

 

[Storm Force]

With regards these prices


Rafale B (Two-seater) - 71.2 M € / 92,2 M $
Rafale C (Single-seater) - 66.2 M € / 84,5 M $
Rafale M (Naval) - 76.1 M € / 97,1 M $



Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/4347-mrca-news-discussions-555.html#ixzz2OwToFUMA

I think the INDIAN RAFALE will F4 OR F3 version which includes an AESA radar so FLYWAY COST maybe higher than above

 

[Srinivas]

 

[sancho]

UN arms treaty won’t hit ties with India: France

France has assured India that the UN Arms Trade Treaty — which was passed by a massive majority of the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) on Tuesday night — will not affect the defence relationship between the two countries.

Although the French government voted in favour of the resolution, it has said that India's concerns are legitimate and has given firm and public support to the Indian position on "contract protection", sources said. New Delhi has been upset with the US and UK for not accommodating Delhi's concerns...

...Paris, which is a major supplier of arms — and is part of the recent multi-billion dollar deal on Rafale jets — has been quick to assuage concerns on the Indian side. Sources said French interlocutors had worked very closely with Indian officials in New York and Geneva as negotiations were carried out on the text of the treaty. In fact, it was due to close coordination between New Delhi and Paris that the draft text of the treaty — in its final stages — was earlier going to accommodate India's concerns...

UN arms treaty won’t hit ties with India: France - Indian Express

 

[proud_indian]

UN arms treaty won’t hit ties with India: France - Indian Express

as someone said

"if you want to gather honey don't kick over the beehive"

 

[IndianTiger]

need confirmation

 

[Ajaxpaul]

MMRCA Negotiations Stalled Over Dassault-HAL Tussle: Report

Livefist: MMRCA Negotiations Stalled Over Dassault-HAL Tussle: Report

 

[IndoUS]

I am with Dassault with this one you can't have HAL take over the production and then blame Dassault in case HAL messes up and delays the delivery.