Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Storm Force]

Wouldnt read too much into excecises.

In the PDF military section MEMBERS CLAIMING PAF F16S beat TYPHOONS in excercises.

THEN (THIS IS THE BEST BIT)

Thunder beat F16 OF PAF.

so logically thunder is better than both F16 & TYPHOON

its all made up

 

[prabhakar]

Wouldnt read too much into excecises.

In the PDF military section MEMBERS CLAIMING PAF F16S beat TYPHOONS in excercises.

THEN (THIS IS THE BEST BIT)

Thunder beat F16 OF PAF.

so logically thunder is better than both F16 & TYPHOON

its all made up

that was possible... it seems that Americans provided them a water downed version of F-16

 

[Black Widow]

Well Rafale aLSO beat Su30 mki in the dogfight but its because Su30 mki is bulkier air supremacy aircraft of the category of F15. In the real battle Su30 mki won't let these aircraft enter in the dogfight in the first place. If you wanna compare F15 with Su30 mki then i think in the dogfight Su30 mki will win. MKI is an engineering marvel, its very maneuverable...

Agree with you. F15 and Su27 is not only Big, Its huge. So in dogfight there moves are limited. Infact they are not made for dogfight. With huge radar at nose, they can not allow any fighter to come near them.

I think F16 is one of the best Dogfighter..

 

[rockstarIN]

Agree with you. F15 and Su27 is not only Big, Its huge. So in dogfight there moves are limited. Infact they are not made for dogfight. With huge radar at nose, they can not allow any fighter to come near them.

I think F16 is one of the best Dogfighter..

No disrespect to F-16, but I read Singapore Air Force F-16 pilot's comments about MKI's superb dog fighting capability with the help of TVC, it is very hard to tail on that.

 

[tvsram1992]

Agree with you. F15 and Su27 is not only Big, Its huge. So in dogfight there moves are limited. Infact they are not made for dogfight. With huge radar at nose, they can not allow any fighter to come near them.

I think F16 is one of the best Dogfighter..

what Mki is one of the best dog fighter

 

[The enlightened]

MKI has some of the highest turn rates- both inst. and sust. but from the many of the videos and airshows I have seen, it seems a bit sluggish, especially when compared against the Fulcrum series.

 

[The enlightened]

Here,
this video might shed some more light.

 

[sancho]

Dassault Aviation: India's decision next week?

According to analysts at Credit Suisse, India could finally announce next week what the fighter she will order CXE that would mark the end of a procedure initiated in 2008. The two finalists are the EADS Eurofighter Typhoon and the Rafale from Dassault Aviation. The first is favorite, according to the press. But for specialists, "anything can happen."...

...Credit Suisse also said "cautiously optimistic" about the chances of the aircraft of EADS.

But beware: "anything can happen," added analysts. They believe that the purchase price of the Rafale (but not necessarily the cost of maintaining operational) should be lower. "We believe (Rafale) also offers more than proximity to the current Indian fleet, which would facilitate the integration," said the research note.

Google Übersetzer

 

[ptltejas]

No need to loss pilots the technology is available for the same. They do not fight hand to hand. Why to not use laser to save sukhois like f 35. No news in miletry about laser developments. AMCA must use photon based processor and Graphene. If gona to start work in 2025. Why not to add six gen featre directly.


One question

whether MMRCA would be helpful any way to our LCA TEJA oh sorry TEJAS.

 

[ptltejas]

Indian Defense Projects - a knol by Vijainder K Thakur

 

[sancho]

One question

whether MMRCA would be helpful any way to our LCA TEJA oh sorry TEJAS.

Of course, since EADS is already a consultant on some design issues, just like Snecma and Rafales M88 could be the base for the Kaveri - Snecma co-development. Also Selex as well as Thales are possible partners for a joint AESA development, which again would be based on the versions developed for EF or Rafale. So technically there are ways to combine both and get advantages for LCA MK2, the slow decision progress on deciding about Kaveri engines future or the radar co-development could even be hints, that these are already related.

 

[Hello_10]

^^
If you are adding the indian navy's mig 29k into the equation, you should know that the People's liberation army navy airforce (I just love typing that out - it is the official name of their naval aviation wing) has around 250+ combat aircraft in its inventory.

The LCA mk2 is not going to begin production in 2015 as you claim in post #6928. We would be lucky to see its first flight by then, or to have mk1 being mass produced by then.

We are NOT getting 25-30 sukhois a year, the number so far has been close to 9 overall, and under present capacities, is 14 per year. It has been reported that the present order will only be fulfilled by 2018 from HAL's side.

We are definitely not getting 5-6 mig 29Ks a year, the number is a lot more sobering, and in any case it doesnt matter, since we are only discussing the IAF.

Before your post, I had showed that with all those things you quoted, adding up all those numbers, we would still be short of China's air combat capable capable fighters by about 500. True, all of those 500 are earlier generation fighters, but we are still talking about a HUGE numerical superiority. 189 cutting edge MRCAs would definitely help bring that gap down, and make sure that the IAF can stand its ground (or is it air?) against the PLAAf, and defend Indian airspace or even have reasonable offensive capabilities. A two front war is still questionable.

20 billion is for 189 MRCAs, not 126. And including weapons, and learning all the technology, and manufacturing them here, and jump starting our nascent aerospace sector, and with 50 percent of the money being spent in India. I feel it is a good investment.

About the crashes, I'm pretty sure you know he wasn't talking about the sukhois, but about the mig 21s.

Russia and India according to finalize the delivery schedule, Russia will be delivered to India in 2012, more 40 m-17V-5 type of military transport helicopters, 21 Su-30MKI (signed in 2000, according to contract to license the assembly), 12 Su-30MKI (according to the 2007 supply contracts signed) and nine carrier-based fighter aircraft MiG -29K/KUB. In addition, this year, Russia and India will continue serving on the Indian MiG-29 fighter jets, Figure -142 patrol aircraft, helicopters Mi-17 upgrade and maintenance of 877EM submarine contract. At the same time, Russia will provide card-31 shipborne helicopters, AL-55-and TRDD-50MT engine, “club-S” anti-ship missile systems, Mi-17 helicopter training simulator, the assembly authorized the Indian T-90S a series of main battle tanks and other contracts.

Russian media: United States next year will replace Russia as India’s largest source of weapons « Military of China, force comment.

Today, at about Rs 53 to the dollar, that $15 billion bid translates into Rs 79,500 crore. The two per cent cost of forex hedging is Rs 1,590 crore, taking the bill to Rs 81,090 crore, Rs 15,525 crore more than last October. The MoD is set to pay almost twice the Rs 42,000 crore that was budgeted for the MMRCA.
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/rupee-fall-jacksindias-arms-purchase-bill-/459638/

The multi-billion contract to buy 126 fighter jets from one of two European bidders could be worth more than $20bn almost double the original estimate,
http://www.defencenews.in/defence-news-internal.asp?get=new&id=798

 

[angeldemon_007]

^^^
I doubt this will happen because lets just see...

Brahmos Aerospace order book has reached upto 10 billion $. Right now we are waiting for Air to ground and submarine launch version and atleast one more regiment of Brahmos blk 3. This will mean the order book is going to grow till the end of this decade because by 2016 Brahmos hypersonic version will enter into production. In short Brahmos alone will generate billions and billions of dollars for Russia.

Su 30 mki and Mig29 naval version sales

IAF mig29 upgradation

Super 30 upgradation, again more than a billion $

Ka 31 purchase.

Three follow on order for Talwar class frigate

Vikramaditya Aircraft Carrier

Nuclear submarine (INS Chakra)

Around 130 Mi17V5.

more t90 mbt orders are likely to be placed.

Russian consultancy for IAC 1 and ATV project. Russia also proposed a 7000 ton design for Indian SSN project but it looks like French Baracuda design is favorite of MOD and MOF.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Amur has a very good chance of winning in P75I (atleast around 3 billion $ and this could go till 11 billion $)

Il78 is competing in IAF tanker competition (Its finanace ministry's favourite)

Mi26 in 12 heavy lift choppers is again MOF.

Ka-226 in 197 LUH competition is still in the race.

Russia is also participating in VSHORAD competition

Rosoboronexport has also team up with OFB for FICV, if they win which is good chance, then again russia will benefit in a project that will again went to 10 billion $ sales.

By 2016 MRTA will enter in the production, again generating money for both Russia and India.

And by the end of decade the mother of all deals...FGFA (which will eventually lead to the purchase of worth close to 30 billion $)


So in short it doesn't look like US will take over Russia and one of the biggest reason is lack of trust among the two nations. Israel is another big seller but most of the israeli project and consultancy are behind the back doors, so we won't really find out how many billions of defence trade going on between these two nations.

 

[Abingdonboy]

^^
If you are adding the indian navy's mig 29k into the equation, you should know that the People's liberation army navy airforce (I just love typing that out - it is the official name of their naval aviation wing) has around 250+ combat aircraft in its inventory.

The LCA mk2 is not going to begin production in 2015 as you claim in post #6928. We would be lucky to see its first flight by then, or to have mk1 being mass produced by then.

We are NOT getting 25-30 sukhois a year, the number so far has been close to 9 overall, and under present capacities, is 14 per year. It has been reported that the present order will only be fulfilled by 2018 from HAL's side.

We are definitely not getting 5-6 mig 29Ks a year, the number is a lot more sobering, and in any case it doesnt matter, since we are only discussing the IAF.

Before your post, I had showed that with all those things you quoted, adding up all those numbers, we would still be short of China's air combat capable capable fighters by about 500. True, all of those 500 are earlier generation fighters, but we are still talking about a HUGE numerical superiority. 189 cutting edge MRCAs would definitely help bring that gap down, and make sure that the IAF can stand its ground (or is it air?) against the PLAAf, and defend Indian airspace or even have reasonable offensive capabilities. A two front war is still questionable.

20 billion is for 189 MRCAs, not 126. And including weapons, and learning all the technology, and manufacturing them here, and jump starting our nascent aerospace sector, and with 50 percent of the money being spent in India. I feel it is a good investment.

About the crashes, I'm pretty sure you know he wasn't talking about the sukhois, but about the mig 21s.

Actually HAL is delivering now about 18-22 MKIs a year, there was some news a while back the IAF had asked HAL to deliver units peridocaiclly throughout the year instead of almost an entire SQD at the end of the calendar which was a major headache at the time. Also the MiG-29K production is ~7-8/annum- deal was signed in 2008 for 16 and all are to delivered by Q3 2011/Q1 2012. And the follow on order are expected to all be inducted by Q3 2013/Q1 2014.

 

[janon]

Actually HAL is delivering now about 18-22 MKIs a year, there was some news a while back the IAF had asked HAL to deliver units peridocaiclly throughout the year instead of almost an entire SQD at the end of the calendar which was a major headache at the time. Also the MiG-29K production is ~7-8/annum- deal was signed in 2008 for 16 and all are to delivered by Q3 2011/Q1 2012. And the follow on order are expected to all be inducted by Q3 2013/Q1 2014.

As per this news report on 27th december 2011, the present capacity is 12 per year, and IAF has asked it to be ramped up to 16 a year. This is the "envisaged" capacity.

HAL to Build 16 Sukhois Annually To Meet IAF Induction Plan - Defence Now