Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[StrikeForce]

Same info but different source:

India may pick winner of fighter jet contract in 2 weeks


By Nigam Prusty
NEW DELHI | Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:16pm IST
(Reuters) - India may decide in the next two weeks whether the Eurofighter consortium or France's Dassault has won a contract for fighter jets, N A K Browne, chief of the Indian Air Force said, in a deal potentially worth about $10 billion.

India plans to spend $50 billion over the next five years to upgrade its military, which largely consists of Soviet-era gear, to counter the rising might of China and threats from Pakistan.

The Eurofighter, a four-nation consortium, and Dassault are left in the race to sell India 126 fighter jets and help revamp the country's defence industry in line with its rising global clout. American, Russian and Swedish bids were rejected in April.

"I am hopeful that in another two weeks' time we will be able to shortlist the name," Browne told Reuters on the sidelines of an event. He declined to comment on who could be the winner of the contract.

Some Indian media have reported that the Eurofighter Typhoon may emerge the lowest bidder. Eurofighter is a four-nation consortium of EADS (EAD.PA), representing Germany and Spain, Britain's BAE Systems (BAES.L) and Italy's Finmeccanica (SIFI.MI). Dassault makes the Rafale.

"Right now we have to do the selection of who is going to be shortlisted," Browne said.

He also said the end of current financial year on March 31 would have no bearing on the order.

Once selected, the government will enter into negotiations with the lowest bidder to finalise the terms and contract value, which may take three to four months.

"Once we shortlist, the commercial negotiations will start with the vendor," Browne said.

India is the world's largest arms importer, accounting for 9 percent of the global arms trade between 2006 and 2010, according to data from Swedish think-tank Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.

"With a potential contract price of $9 billion to $14 billion, this is the single biggest competition in the global defence aviation industry at the moment and offers both bidders a much-needed opportunity in a major market," James Hardy, Asia Pacific Editor at IHS Jane's Defence Weekly had written in an email statement in November.

(Reporting by Nigam Prusty; Writing by Manoj Kumar; Editing by Aradhana Aravindan)

Source:
India may pick winner of fighter jet contract in 2 weeks | Reuters

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

C'mon mate, you must know the score by now. Different sources, different interpretations and sheer lies by some journos.

Sometime this month is what I'd expect.

If they keep changing scores like this , most people's interest in the whole damn thing will be bowled out if it hasn't happened already .

 

[sancho]

Will it?

The range seems to be less for Astra then R-77 and the seekers are same.

Astra II with Ramjet engine might replace R-77s

At least that's the plan and taking the maximum range as the only important spec of a missile is a mistake anyway, since nobody will fire a BVR missile at maximum range because of the no escape zone. Another point why Astra might replace R77s are the issues with the service life and quality of certain parts. Might also be a reason why IAF went with integrating Derby for LCA instead of R77.


Besides all the baseless rumors and unnamed sources in the reports of last week, we now interestingly have Serge Dassault and the IAF Chief stating that something happens in the next 2 weeks. I just hope the earlier meant the MMRCA!

 

[ziaulislam]

Most of the important ToT is related to the manufacturing process. That can't be "bought" for the LCA. This will hopefully give India a quantum leap in its aerospace manufacturing sector, and experience in western production methods.

200 LCA and 300 MKIs would still leave a shortfall of about 300 aircrafts until the PAKFA and AMCA arrive. The AMCA is not arriving for another 15 years. Also, MKIs would be the only aircraft with long range capabilities. One technical snag can ground the entire fleet, it is not a good idea to have all your expeditionary capability fulfilled by one kind. Also, the MRCAs are immensely cheaper to operate than the MKIs, and require far less maintainance. Since we are talking about 25-30 years of service, that would in itself be a huge cost saving factor - which is of course the rationale for having medium category aircrafts in addition to heavy ones.

sir not want to discuss this in MRCA thread but wasnt PAKfa meant to get operational by 2020 at the LATEST. uptill then and beyond india plans to keep its mig 29,mirage 2000, jaugers and atleast some mig21 & mig 27. meaning that if india had 200 LCAs and 300MKIs it could have easily waited for the 250 PAKfas whose induction is suppose to be completed by 2030 to LATEST
as i see it LCAs will be sacrficed by the MRCA.
anyway coming to MRCA i dont understand why india is delaying so much even after the techn evaluation, to me eurofighters is the winner but indians always surprise me and french use all methods at their disposal to get their deals done.

 

[janon]

sir not want to discuss this in MRCA thread but wasnt PAKfa meant to get operational by 2020 at the LATEST. uptill then and beyond india plans to keep its mig 29,mirage 2000, jaugers and atleast some mig21 & mig 27. meaning that if india had 200 LCAs and 300MKIs it could have easily waited for the 250 PAKfas whose induction is suppose to be completed by 2030 to LATEST
as i see it LCAs will be sacrficed by the MRCA.
anyway coming to MRCA i dont understand why india is delaying so much even after the techn evaluation, to me eurofighters is the winner but indians always surprise me and french use all methods at their disposal to get their deals done.

The mig 21s will be gone long before then. The plan is to retire the bisons by 2017, and other 21s by 2015. The mig 27s too won't serve until 2020, if I remember correctly. You are right about the others. Of those, the jaguars wont have any air combat capability, nor the 27s. So the only ones that can match the huge fleet or 4th generation fighters on the east are the mig 29 and mirage 2000, together which make up about 120. At the rate at which we are producing MKIs, it will take another 6 or 7 years to get the rest of our planned 272 MKIs. We couldn't have gotten 300 by 2020, unless we bought a lot directly from Irkut. Coming to the LCA, even if they had begun inducting them in 2010, 5 years earlier than current plans and 7 years earlier than he current plans for mark 2, we wouldn't have reached 200 by 2020.But by 2020, there would be a shortfall of 150 mig 21s from the present fleet, and maybe mig 27s as well. As it is, we are short of about 7 squadrons. So to remain safe WRT China, MRCA aquisition is a must. So irregardless of the Tejas delays, we would have needed MRCAs. Or look at it this way - even if we had 300 MKI, 200 LCA and 120 other fighters in service, thats 620. PLAAF has about that many 4th generation fighters, including flanker variants. And it has another 500 or so older generation fighters. If we want to have some parity, we need these cutting edge technologically superior aircrafts from the west.

If our threat was only pakistan, you would be right, LCAs and MKIs togther with the other aircrafts would have sufficed. Another factor is increasing the reach of the IAF, and having much more power projection capabilities over longer ranges than we have at present. The LCAs won't help with that, though they will be very capable within their range. The MKIs would be the only ones capable of projecting power deep inside China or far in the Indian ocean or central asia, if necessary.

Added to all this is the fact that we are getting cutting edge expertise in manufacture and production, and whatever ToT we are getting. And experience for our public and private aerospace companies.

I don't understand the delays either. After the winner is announced, it will take another 6 months to sign the contract.

 

[ptltejas]

Perhaps no.s doesnt matter. We have more powerful sukhoi and perhaps more better after super sukhoi. No.2 till neighbour not have sword why to hurry get a sword. As early we bought it will be become old earlier.

 

[janon]

Perhaps no.s doesnt matter. We have more powerful sukhoi and perhaps more better after super sukhoi. No.2 till neighbour not have sword why to hurry get a sword. As early we bought it will be become old earlier.

Numbers do matter when we are outmatched close to 2:1 in fighters. We need all the technological superiority we can get, and close that gap in numbers as well. Without numbers, we can't have complete geopgraphical coverage to defend all our airspace.

 

[perplexed]

Numbers do matter when we are outmatched close to 2:1 in fighters. We need all the technological superiority we can get, and close that gap in numbers as well. Without numbers, we can't have complete geopgraphical coverage to defend all our airspace.

we only have to defend our borders.

Chinese would never leave their borders in east ( japan ) and north ( Russia ) open. So, our MKI/LCA/Jaguars will be more than a match to them.

 

[janon]

we only have to defend our borders.

Chinese would never leave their borders in east ( japan ) and north ( Russia ) open. So, our MKI/LCA/Jaguars will be more than a match to them.

And we couldn't leave our western border undefended. Works both ways.

 

[tvsram1992]

And we couldn't leave our western border undefended. Works both ways.

lol Chinese border is so huge but our border can be managed by cavalary .

 

[SpArK]

lol Chinese border is so huge but our border can be managed by cavalary .

Managed by jungle camo

 

[ptltejas]

Eurafael = Eurofighter + Rafale. A hybrid version can be some new fighter.

 

[Hello_10]

Perhaps no.s doesnt matter. We have more powerful sukhoi and perhaps more better after super sukhoi. No.2 till neighbour not have sword why to hurry get a sword. As early we bought it will be become old earlier.

If I remember, China only has around 200 J10s, their top gun, and rest of their 4th gen aircrafts are around 100 old Su27s, 100 old Su30s, and with around 100 J11s which is just a clone of old Su27s. While India currently has 146 SU30MKIs, total 270 on order, which would be at least ‘+’ superior to J10s, and their ‘Super Sukhoi’, the upgraded SU30MKIs, would be among the best in 4th gen aircrafts (with its stealth features, AESA radar and brahmos missiles). And also IAF is getting upgrade of 51 Mirage2000H to 2000-5 mk2 standard which would again be said to be the best multi role aircraft in this region, better than the new 24 F16s block 52 delivered to Pakistan recently also. While Chinese top gun J10s are even not as good as F16 block 52 for multi role operations? At the same times IAF is getting 68 Mi29s being upgraded to SMT standard, and 45 Mig29k on order and even these upgraded Mig29s would be said to be fit in comparison with J10s? At the same time IAF would get 25 to 30 MKIs very year till 2015 to get all 270 and they are likely to order at least 50 more upgraded SU30MKIs to keep its production line until 2017-18, until production line of PAK FA/ FGFA would start. Then why to hurry for MMRCA until they bring any of these suppliers to the position for ‘a best deal’. While multi role LCAs of mk2 standard would also come in production from 2015 which would be enough for all the multi role operations for India while working with Mirage2000-5 mk2. While even MMRCA is proposed to come in production from 2015 onwards? Then why would IAF hurry for MRCA contract? Why don’t they wait for 2-3 years more and bargain for a best deal?

And I would describe a best MMRCA deal by, either both of these suppliers would reduce total unit cost to the level of $100mil to $110 mil, (similar to $4.3bn for 42 upgraded SU30MKIs), or, EFT would offer ‘full tech transfer’ with full production line to India, (IAF won’t accept to have just 70% of tech transfer of EFT like the recent news), or, IAF would agree Rafale’s manufacture to accept IAF as their partner which would give them a type of independence on its future upgrades. Anyhow Rafale doesn’t have any other customer and if they lose MMRCA, Rafale program would die.

 

[ptltejas]

Thanks Bro.

However as our squardon reducing and as our old fleet of mig 21, 27 Jaguars required to retired. Hell with plane but why to loss costly pilot in accidents.

AMCA is also dream at distance. Whatsoever but change mig 21 immediately. Lca must take speed to replace them.reduce cost in mmrca is great thinking thanx bro.

 

[StrikeForce]

If I remember, China only has around 200 J10s, their top gun, and rest of their 4th gen aircrafts are around 100 old Su27s, 100 old Su30s, and with around 100 J11s which is just a clone of old Su27s. While India currently has 146 SU30MKIs, total 270 on order, which would be at least ‘+’ superior to J10s, and their ‘Super Sukhoi’, the upgraded SU30MKIs, would be among the best in 4th gen aircrafts (with its stealth features, AESA radar and brahmos missiles). And also IAF is getting upgrade of 51 Mirage2000H to 2000-5 mk2 standard which would again be said to be the best multi role aircraft in this region, better than the new 24 F16s block 52 delivered to Pakistan recently also. While Chinese top gun J10s are even not as good as F16 block 52 for multi role operations? At the same times IAF is getting 68 Mi29s being upgraded to SMT standard, and 45 Mig29k on order and even these upgraded Mig29s would be said to be fit in comparison with J10s? At the same time IAF would get 25 to 30 MKIs very year till 2015 to get all 270 and they are likely to order at least 50 more upgraded SU30MKIs to keep its production line until 2017-18, until production line of PAK FA/ FGFA would start. Then why to hurry for MMRCA until they bring any of these suppliers to the position for ‘a best deal’. While multi role LCAs of mk2 standard would also come in production from 2015 which would be enough for all the multi role operations for India while working with Mirage2000-5 mk2. While even MMRCA is proposed to come in production from 2015 onwards? Then why would IAF hurry for MRCA contract? Why don’t they wait for 2-3 years more and bargain for a best deal?

And I would describe a best MMRCA deal by, either both of these suppliers would reduce total unit cost to the level of $100mil to $110 mil, (similar to $4.3bn for 42 upgraded SU30MKIs), or, EFT would offer ‘full tech transfer’ with full production line to India, (IAF won’t accept to have just 70% of tech transfer of EFT like the recent news), or, IAF would agree Rafale’s manufacture to accept IAF as their partner which would give them a type of independence on its future upgrades. Anyhow Rafale doesn’t have any other customer and if they lose MMRCA, Rafale program would die.

Logically you are right, However technically LCA,FGFA or PAK-FA,AMCA are not in immediate production line and any delays would hit our minimal defence requirement of 42 Squadrons in jeopardy as against current 29 Squadrons.

And our aging Bison needs immediate retirement as well by atleast 2017. Then there will be large vacuum in IAF fighters numbers. And this is why our MMRCA deal is mandatory. Though there is cost involved, C'mon which defence deal works out cheaper.

India's upgrades had a real long delays so far and should not be anymore. National security is atmost importance and the money spent to defend it worth every penny than living in insecurity