Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Yeti]

The same logic can be applied to Rafale how many countries fly it? just 1

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So, net net Rafale is better than EF ...Thats the difference. Who i will go for... A finished good product or a product with lot of promises which might take another 4 years extra. Can the IAF afford to wait few extra years. Can we meet the objective of 42 squadrons in near future.. Think bro Think

In A2G mode for now yes the rafale is better but for me ill pick the EF but hey only 10 days more to go till we find out

 

[sancho]

But what if the EF consortium win more deals in the future? not to mention the Saudis will place more orders for them so can not the costs be shared in your view?

Which orders? EF lost in Switzerland, lost in Japan, Oman most likely will not go for EFs since they now bought additional F16s and they were speculated to buy 2nd RAF EFs anyway, which means no new order. The only competition they are in at the moment are Malaysia and Qatar, both for low numbers and with not good chances. The Saudis are the only possibility to get some funds and a follow order of 48 x EFs, but with the huge F15 order that is doubtful as well, not to forget that they are not happy with the EF, since the assembly in Saudi Arabia didn't work, the their fighters are delayed and the upgrade is still not fixed.
No matter what, the EF needs a win in MMRCA and India as a funder, otherwise the production will stop in 2017 and that was even confirmed by the EF consortium!

 

[Yeti]

France has raised concerns over the future of the Rafale programme, which has struggled to find foreign buyers to support a project that has so far cost more than 40 billion euros ($51 billion).



.:Middle East Online::France still looking for Rafale buyers in GCC:.


Such a good plane but no orders of yet

 

[StrikeForce]

But what if the EF consortium win more deals in the future? not to mention the Saudis will place more orders for them so can not the costs be shared in your view?

What if they dont win...Wont the burden will be on India as well as a partner.

 

[Yeti]

Which orders? EF lost in Switzerland, lost in Japan, Oman most likely will not go for EFs since they now bought additional F16s and they were speculated to buy 2nd RAF EFs anyway, which means no new order. The only competition they are in at the moment are Malaysia and Qatar, both for low numbers and with not good chances. The Saudis are the only possibility to get some funds and a follow order of 48 x EFs, but with the huge F15 order that is doubtful as well, not to forget that they are not happy with the EF, since the assembly in Saudi Arabia didn't work, the their fighters are delayed and the upgrade is still not fixed.
No matter what, the EF needs a win in MMRCA and India as a funder, otherwise the production will stop in 2017 and that was even confirmed by the EF consortium!

It is not a lost Sancho.

Take Japan who was always going to win? f35 so thats a non-issue


Switzerland the only reason was cost they picked the lower of the 2 and that was the Gripen why do they need a twin engine EF for in the first place?



The Gripen is not the highest performing of the three contenders, he said, but it meets the Swiss requirement and offers the lowest acquisition and maintenance costs. Swiss media earlier reported that the Eurofighter offer was about $4.3 billion, and the Rafale in the middle range between the Typhoon and the Gripen.

 

[StrikeForce]

But what if the EF consortium win more deals in the future? not to mention the Saudis will place more orders for them so can not the costs be shared in your view?

What if they dont win...Wont the burden will be on India as well as a partner.

 

[Yeti]

The choice came as a relative surprise in Switzerland after media reported several days ago that the Swedish plane had not fully passed technical tests. A Paris-based analyst specialising in the air defence industry said the Rafale option was considerably more expensive and had little chance of winning the contract however.

Saab admitted it made "huge concessions over the price to ensure it got the contract", the analyst said, while adding that the deal could still be put to a referendum if there was sufficient opposition.

Saab said Wednesday it was "proud and delighted" over Switzerland's decision.

"Given that Switzerland is known globally for applying (the) highest procurement standards and requesting state-of-the art technologies, Saab is both proud and delighted that Gripen has been chosen as the Swiss Air Force's future multirole fighter aircraft," Saab said in a statement.

The Swiss selection "confirms that Saab is a market-leader in the defence and security industry and that Gripen is a world-class fighter system that provides the best value for money", Saab CEO and president Haakan Buskhe said.

---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------

What if they dont win...Wont the burden will be on India as well as a partner.

Just take this into account how many countries fly the EF? and how many fly the Rafale?

 

[sancho]

It is not a lost Sancho.

Take Japan who was always going to win? f35 so thats a non-issue


Switzerland the only reason was cost they picked the lower of the 2 and that was the Gripen why do they need a twin engine EF for in the first place?

LOL, come on. The outcome was clear, that's why Dassault was so smart no to attend the competition, the EF consortium were simply desperate and tried it, but they lost out.
Wrt Switzerland, even I often stated that they don't need anything else than the Gripen, even the Mirage 2000-9 would be way more than enough. But that's not important, since they had their own requirments and according to their evaluation, Rafale was rated as techincally best fighter, cheaper and more cost-effective to operate than the EF? If they had the money, they would have taken Rafale, but they didn't and now compromised with a fighter that is not even fiting to their own requirements.
The simple fact that MMRCA is the first competition where EF was shortlisted to the final stage, tells enough about it's chances on export markets and the resons to reject it were always the same. Too expensive, not capable enough!

Just take this into account how many countries fly the EF? and how many fly the Rafale?

Whats the difference? Is the EF cheaper because it has 4 partners? No, because it's development cost were higher than Rafales. Is it more upgraded and capable than Rafale? No because all partners are cuting their defence budgets big times and canceling their orders.
From this point of view, it was even an advantage for Rafale, the the French did it alone!

Gtg, G8 all!

 

[Yeti]

LOL, come on. The outcome was clear, that's why Dassault was so smart no to attend the competition, the EF consortium were simply desperate and tried it, but they lost out.
Wrt Switzerland, even I often stated that they don't need anything else than the Gripen, even the Mirage 2000-9 would be way more than enough. But that's not important, since they had their own requirments and according to their evaluation, Rafale was rated as techincally best fighter, cheaper and more cost-effective to operate than the EF? If they had the money, they would have taken Rafale, but they didn't and now compromised with a fighter that is not even fiting to their own requirements.
The simple fact that MMRCA is the first competition where EF was shortlisted to the final stage, tells enough about it's chances on export markets and the resons to reject it were always the same. Too expensive, not capable enough!

Buddy how can you say Dassault did not care about that tender? when they issued a statement after they lost:


Dassault wasn’t very happy, though they did concede that the Gripen beat them on price:

“The RAFALE’s capacities would enable the Swiss Confederation to meet its operational requirements with a smaller number of aircraft [emphasis DID’s] at an equivalent or lower cost, as was demonstrated during the assessments…. The “Swiss-tailored” GRIPEN only exists on paper. Its technical development and production risk significantly increasing the financial efforts required of the Swiss Authorities to accomplish the country’s fighter aircraft program. RAFALE INTERNATIONAL extends its sincere thanks the 250 Swiss companies that took part in its industrial partnership project in the 26 cantons of the Swiss Confederation.”

 

[sancho]

Buddy how can you say Dassault did not care about that tender?

Japan, not Switzerland!

 

[StrikeForce]

The choice came as a relative surprise in Switzerland after media reported several days ago that the Swedish plane had not fully passed technical tests. A Paris-based analyst specialising in the air defence industry said the Rafale option was considerably more expensive and had little chance of winning the contract however.

Saab admitted it made "huge concessions over the price to ensure it got the contract", the analyst said, while adding that the deal could still be put to a referendum if there was sufficient opposition.

Saab said Wednesday it was "proud and delighted" over Switzerland's decision.

"Given that Switzerland is known globally for applying (the) highest procurement standards and requesting state-of-the art technologies, Saab is both proud and delighted that Gripen has been chosen as the Swiss Air Force's future multirole fighter aircraft," Saab said in a statement.

The Swiss selection "confirms that Saab is a market-leader in the defence and security industry and that Gripen is a world-class fighter system that provides the best value for money", Saab CEO and president Haakan Buskhe said.

---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------




Just take this into account how many countries fly the EF? and how many fly the Rafale?

If India selects Rafale , then immediately Brazil and UAE may follow. However on Switzerland selecting Gripen, Thats best suited for their defence requirements. The size of Aksai Chin is Switzerland and they dont have any border issues with any nuclear countries. They are all united under EU. Their decision is the best and that does not mean Saab Gripen is better than EF or Rafale.

 

[Yeti]

EF is still in the UAE tender even though the Rafale is bookies fave to win.

---------- Post added at 08:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 PM ----------

Japan, not Switzerland!

Japan come on Sancho there was always going to be only one winner you and me both know that

 

[illusion8]

460 pages and we amongst ourselves haven't been able to decide which is a better plane, I pity the guys at the Ministry of Defense.

 

[Yeti]

Most experts say the Eurofighter's Typhoon—priced somewhere between the F-18 and the F-35—is a worthy contender for Japan's air-defense needs. But it faces an uphill battle due to pressure from Washington, which, as Tokyo's top security ally, has quietly pushed the case for a U.S. jet. As a result, they say the F-35 is the top contender, followed by the F-18.

"It's the Americans' competition to lose," said James Hardy, a senior analyst for Asian Pacific region with Jane's Defense Weekly. "The fact is that the U.S. is Japan's security partner, and the Japanese Air Self Defense Force has flown U.S. planes since the 1970s."


Japan Weighs Options for Expensive Fighter Jets - WSJ.com

we all know Japan will pick US Fighter

 

[Yeti]

I don't mind who will win the tender but im thinking of facing China in the future thats why I prefer the EF