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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

Russians will be loving this. It means despite losing the mrca contract . it will be actually the russians who will be getting more orders for MKIs as a stop gap arrangement for mrca planes.
Well done iaf strategists
 
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Livefist @livefist · 46m46 minutes ago
Indian & French aircraft carriers (Vikramaditya & Charles de Gaulle) to lead joint naval exercise Varuna from April 23 in the Arabian Sea.

Livefist @livefist · 57m57 minutes ago
Ball firmly in Dassault's court. Indian Def Min tells Parliament: "They have to tell us whether they can do it or not. Can’t keep waiting."

March 18, 2015 13:25 PM
Malaysia Offered Similar Financial Package As Egypt For Rafale Procurement


LANGKAWI, March 18 (Bernama)-- French aircraft manufacturer, Dassault Aviation, says Malaysia is being offered a financial package similar to that given to Egypt, for procurement of its Rafale jet fighter.

Dassault Chief Executive Officer Eric Tappier said the package entails a ten-year repayment loan from a French commercial bank and guaranteed by the government of France.


Cairo recently acquired 24 Rafale combat aircraft and a multi-mission frigate and associated equipment from Dassault Aviation worth 5.3 billion euros.

"We are committed and looking forward to having a long term business deal here in Malaysia as we have the best fighter aircraft which can cover multirole missions," he said during a breakfast session with the media here Wednesday.

He said Dassault had already tied-up with a few local companies, namely, Zetro Aerospace, CTRM and Airod as part of a long-term plan to expand its business in the aerospace industry in Malaysia.

He said the company is also eyeing other local companies that have potential for collaboration, with the transfer of know-how and technology to Malaysia, in some aspects of the process to build aircraft.

"We are also looking at different types of industrial packages to offer to Malaysia, like the final assembly line of aircraft, production of some parts, development, maintenance and support which we see local industries as having the capability, if they collaborate with us," he added.

On the Malaysian Aerospace Industry Blueprint 2015-2030 launched yesterday, he said it was apt for fuelling the industry's development.

The blueprint was launched by Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak in conjunction with the ongoing Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace Exhibition (Lima 2015).

Tappier said Dassault sees the present as a good opportunity to collaborate with more Malaysian companies as it is not merely focused on selling aircraft.

The Rafale is making its third appearance at the LIMA since 2011 and is the only company participating in an aerial demonstration this time.

"We believe we can succeed in Malaysia. We have a good aircraft to offer. and as far as I am concerned, good government-to-government relations as well," he added. -- BERNAMA

State News


No wonder DM is giving such statements.. Across the world Dassault goes and gives soft loans to rake up sales but about MMRCA its as if not bothered at all.

@halloweene : So Malaysian sales also proposed on the same lines of Egypt. its also offering like
"the final assembly line of aircraft, production of some parts, development, maintenance and support which we see local industries as having the capability, if they collaborate with us"
Do you find it ironical that negotiations with India is super slow and with DM posturing its becoming increasingly tougher? Or you think its just for media only? is there any financial package for Indian MMRCA too? Whats Dassault thinking about a concrete announcement when PM Modi visits? Is that possible?

Another article


DASSAULT AVIATION : A DEADLY WARBIRD NAMED RAFALE
03/17/2015 | 12:53am US/Eastern

IF the 2013 edition of the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace(Lima) exhibition was anything to go by, this year's flight demonstration by Dassault Aviation's Rafale at Lima 2015 is definitely going to be a showstopper.

Blessed with phenomenal agility and blistering performance, the Rafale has been at the pointy end of the spear. The jet-fighter has racked up impressive sortie rates, often under severe, austere conditions during campaigns in Mali, Libya, and more recently, against Islamic State targets in Iraq.

The Rafale is one of contenders for Royal Malaysian Air Force's (RMAF) multi-role combat aircraft programme. Under the plan, estimated at a whopping RM8 billion, the RMAF is looking to equip three squadrons with 36 to 40 new fighter aircraft. Other competitors include the Eurofighter Typhoon, Boeing's F/A-18/F Super Hornet and the Saab JAS-39 C/D Gripen.

On March 19, 2011, French Rafales conducted reconnaissance and strike missions over Libya in Operation Harmattan. Initial targets were artillery pieces laying siege around Benghazi.

Of particular significance in this deployment was that the Rafales did not need defence suppression aircraft to neutralise enemy air defences.

Instead, it relied solely on its onboard Spectra self-defence jamming system. Warfighters also were pleased with the type's ability to maintain high operational sortie rates.

During the conflict, the fighters typically conducted six-hour sorties. A typical loadout would include four Mica air-to-air missiles, four to six Armement Air-Sol Modulaire (AASM, or Air-to- Ground Modular Weapons), a Thales DamoclEs targeting pod and two auxilliary drop tanks.

The "swing" loadout allowed the Rafale to switch between air-to- air, and air-to-ground missions with just a flick of the switch. Loiter times were augmented by the use of aerial refuelling.

Two years later, the Rafale was back in action. This time, in Mali. InJanuary 2013, Rafales took part in Operation Serval, the French military intervention in support of the government of Mali against the Movement for Oneness and Jihad in West Africa.

On Jan 13, four Rafales took off from an airbase in France to carry out airstrikes on rebel training camps, depots and facilities in the city of Gao in eastern Mali. This was followed by additional airstrikes over the next few days by Rafale and Mirage 2000D strike fighters.

The sudden emergence of the Islamic State (IS) and its sweeping wave of terror finally forced the Americans into action. In September last year, Rafales began flying reconnaissance missions over Iraq as part of Operation Chammal, France's contribution to the international effort to combat the terror group.

Initially, six Rafales were tasked with identifying IS positions in support ofUnited States airstrikes, flying from Al Dhafra Airbase in the United Arab Emirates, photographing potential targets. Later, the number was bumped up to nine jets.

On Sept 18, Rafales joined US Navy F/A-18 E/F Super Hornets on airstrikes. The Rafales launched four strikes near the northern Iraqi town of Zumar that destroyed a logistics depot and killed dozens of IS militants.

(c) 2015

DASSAULT AVIATION : A DEADLY WARBIRD NAMED RAFALE | 4-Traders
 
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No wonder DM is giving such statements.. Across the world Dassault goes and gives soft loans to rake up sales but about MMRCA its as if not bothered at all.
India doesn't need, nore has it requested, finacial aid to pay for the MMRCA- apples and oranges.
 
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India doesn't need, nore has it requested, finacial aid to pay for the MMRCA- apples and oranges.

What you are saying is partly true, but does it not show lack of sincerity on the part of Dassault and French government? They are trying hard to rake up sales via that route a possible sale of 3 squadrons mind you and may offer such schemes to more competitions.. in the meantime, the MMRCA progress is almost snail pace. DM talks as if the decision is pending from Dassault side only.. And in the meantime, as time goes on the fleet suffers... Its clear that Su30MKI servicability is at 57% and aimed to reach 70%... To my mind, the deal of MMRCA is even more important now when you know the primary bird is almost one third plus grounded bcz of any reason. On top, the lack of Plan B options is also distressing as new additional sukhois means nothing as it hardly adds to the teeth in present conditions. Its taking too long and time is money............
 
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This is so annoying.

there is no need to be so annoyed my friend ,until & unless you have any mental issues on your side

this is after all a forum where people have right to express their views .

I didn't miss nothing, you're the one who jumped the gun.
No you have
i have pointed out those things clealry in my prevoius post

So? That allows you to assume it 5500km? What nonsense. Bring official sources that put it so and then talk.
who the hell am i to assume anything .. i have posted the source clearly which cites 5500km with internal fuel & 3 large drop tanks tanks .It is from unofficial sources
https://defence.pk/attachments/rafales-range-5000-6000km-jpg.203383/
Official sources cant disclose such things as i have said clearly in my previous post that those things are classified
Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2] | Page 48


But unofficial sources are usually air force officials which dont want to reveal their identity to those journalist in public
for security reasons

According to me its CFT (2x1150L) + 2x1250L + 3x2000L (+ 5750L internal). If only you actually bothered to read what you quote
'2 CFT's and 2 x 1250 litre supersonic tank (because I really don't know how to do it) in addition to the above
thats the hell wrong assumption from your side
why would rafale carry 2 x1250L droptanks along with 3x 2000L drop tanks that s not required at all
it covers up 5 wet stations on rafale which prevents any cruise missile carraige on it's wet station as they are all used up if they carry 5 drop tanks
which is highly illogical


Stop smoking whatever you weed you got there. CFT only add a minor 2300L fuel. That is about 16% increase.
1st of all learn to post in a proper civilised way .
I am not your pal next door that you are talking to me like that

this kind of rude & arrogant replies from your side wont achieve anything


CFT add 20-25 % increase in range not 16 % increase according to you
source
dassault CFT range increase by 20-25 percent.JPG



CHEERS
 
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India doesn't need, nore has it requested, finacial aid to pay for the MMRCA- apples and oranges.


Depends, no one is ever going to say no to favourable terms. However the statement from the DM is pretty ominous.

As India and France struggle to break the deadlock over the $20-billion Rafale fighter deal, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar reiterated on Tuesday that the contractual terms in the Request for Information and the pricing were “non-negotiable.”

“The pricing will be decided on the basis of the Request for Proposal,” he told presspersons outside Parliament.

However, on the guarantee clause, which had been an issue of contention between Dassault and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL), he said the two firms had to sort it out.

These comments are significant in the backdrop of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s upcoming visit to France next month. Foreign Secretary S. Jaishankar is visiting France next week.

Mr. Parrikar indicated that the wait could not be “endless” and the decision would be “expedited.” The contract negotiation committee is expected to submit its report this month after which a final decision will be taken.



Hardly seems like the DM is looking to compromise. The specific mentioning of the pricing leaves little room to manoeuvre. Either Dassault capitulates or this deal is unlikely to go anywhere.
 
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Depends, no one is ever going to say no to favourable terms. However the statement from the DM is pretty ominous.

As India and France struggle to break the deadlock over the $20-billion Rafale fighter deal, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar reiterated on Tuesday that the contractual terms in the Request for Information and the pricing were “non-negotiable.”

“The pricing will be decided on the basis of the Request for Proposal,” he told presspersons outside Parliament.

However, on the guarantee clause, which had been an issue of contention between Dassault and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL), he said the two firms had to sort it out.

These comments are significant in the backdrop of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s upcoming visit to France next month. Foreign Secretary S. Jaishankar is visiting France next week.

Mr. Parrikar indicated that the wait could not be “endless” and the decision would be “expedited.” The contract negotiation committee is expected to submit its report this month after which a final decision will be taken.



Hardly seems like the DM is looking to compromise. The specific mentioning of the pricing leaves little room to manoeuvre. Either Dassault capitulates or this deal is unlikely to go anywhere.

Why is $10 billion contract $20 billion ?
Can anyone answer ?
 
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What you are saying is partly true, but does it not show lack of sincerity on the part of Dassault and French government? They are trying hard to rake up sales via that route a possible sale of 3 squadrons mind you and may offer such schemes to more competitions.. in the meantime, the MMRCA progress is almost snail pace. DM talks as if the decision is pending from Dassault side only.. And in the meantime, as time goes on the fleet suffers... Its clear that Su30MKI servicability is at 57% and aimed to reach 70%... To my mind, the deal of MMRCA is even more important now when you know the primary bird is almost one third plus grounded bcz of any reason. On top, the lack of Plan B options is also distressing as new additional sukhois means nothing as it hardly adds to the teeth in present conditions. Its taking too long and time is money............
For 10bilion we can buy 250+ su 34..and even with 50% of serviceability the number will be more than that of the proposed figure of rafale purchase
 
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LIKE I TOLD YOU GUYS 18 MONTHS AGO INDIA CANT AFFORD BOTH RAFALE & FGFA

SOMETHING HAS TO GIVE
 
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Why is $10 billion contract $20 billion ?
Can anyone answer ?


$20 BN is a BS figure. The actual figure is around $15-16 BN (50% of which will be ploughed back into India) and the orginal deal had been valued at $12 BN.

For 10bilion we can buy 250+ su 34..and even with 50% of serviceability the number will be more than that of the proposed figure of rafale purchase
The MMRCA is about a LOT more than the planes, it will transform the Indian aviation industry, buying 250 Su-34s won't offer the same benfits to India and will only hurt the IAF.

LIKE I TOLD YOU GUYS 18 MONTHS AGO INDIA CANT AFFORD BOTH RAFALE & FGFA

SOMETHING HAS TO GIVE
Based on what?? India is going to spend $620 billion on defence between 2014 and 2022 (50% of this will be CAPEX), money is not an issue.
 
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Based on what?? India is going to spend $620 billion on defence between 2014 and 2022 (50% of this will be CAPEX), money is not an issue.

$620B?? WOW, that is incredible. 2014 is already gone. Budget of 2015-16 is announced. So, for like 6 years India would be spending avg $100B per year?

Check the figures which Ajai Shukla provided in this image. Total capex for Army, IAF, Navy work out to be $22B (1$ = 62 Rs) in year 2021-22. If Ajai Shukla did some severe stupidity and even If I double the amount, it would be just like $44B.
Allocation%2Bgraphic.jpg
 
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Terms Non-Negotiable On MMRCA Rafale Deal; Indian MoD
Source : Our Bureau ~ Dated : Wednesday, March 18, 2015 @ 09:03 AM
Indian Defense Minister, Manohar Parrikar on Tuesday made it clear to the French Government that there would be no compromise on the costs and Request For Proposal (RFP) of the purchase of Dassault Rafale Multi Medium Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA).

“We have conveyed our stand to them very clearly. No terms are negotiable and they (French Government) have to make up their mind as to whether they can do it or not. We can’t keep on waiting,” Parrikar said. “The Ministry will think of strengthening the existing fleet of Su-30Mki in case the deadlock continues.”

Parrikar had earlier last week said, “Rafale deal is not through or final. If it is at all finalized in future, it will take time. I would not like to comment on it as it is still in the negotiation stage,” he said during the lower house session.”

"I am waiting the Contract Negotiation Committee (CNC) report and until the detailed report is submitted, I will be unable to comment on the MMRCA aircraft acquisition. I have asked the CNC to expedite the report. The report is expected in March if not February. It is essential for the ministry to make a final decision about the deal,” Parrikar had said during the Aero India Airshow last month.

The cost of the program was $12 billion when the initial tender was floated in 2007. The price shot up to $18 billion when Dassault won the contract as the lowest bidder in January 2012.

The transfer of technology, life cycle costs and creating assembly line might finally cross $20 billion.

The government may find it difficult to justify a nearly 80% price hike for the Rafale jets to the Indian parliament. In the past, the accounting watchdog, the Comptroller and auditor general (CAG) has criticized the government for its fiscal conduct while concluding defense deals.

Terms Non-Negotiable On MMRCA Rafale Deal; Indian MoD
LOL signed 18th of march while Parrikar says report expected in march if not february...
 
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Abingdon.

Your figures are outrageous of 609.billion .

India is a poor developing country

Rafale is too costly this is the sole issue now.

We are flying cheap rusty obsekete migs

Get realistic

Money is a massive issue for every nation even the rich western countries.

So do t tell us money is no issue

Indians are running scared. Of the totalaacquisition and life cycle cost of thus hyper expensive yet brilliant fighter

And yes I repeat I predicted this issue before any one else on this entire forum
 
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