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Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]
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Hindustani78
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Rafale talks to take a month more - The Hindu
Updated: September 27, 2015 10:48 IST
India’s insistence on 50 per cent off-set clause, tweaking of weaponry technology and plans to set up two bases were among the sticking points
The talks for negotiating the cost of 36 Rafale fighter jets India is buying from France is going on at a “hectic” pace and are likely to be wrapped up in another one month, top defence sources said.
“The talks have been very hectic. There are a lot of fine prints that both sides look into. The talks will most likely take one more month,” defence sources told PTI.
“The talks are taking place since morning to evening. The French side is here thrice every month and every effort is to wrap up the talks fast,” they said.
The Defence Acquisition Council had on September 1 given the go ahead for further negotiations for purchase of 36 jets that had got stalled due to differences over a variety of issues.
India’s insistence on 50 per cent off-set clause, tweaking of weaponry technology and plans to set up two bases were among the sticking points that had cropped up during the talks that began after Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced the decision to acquire the fighter jets during his trip to France in April.
If things proceed smoothly, a government-to-government agreement between India and France could be signed soon, paving the way for the final contract for the purchase of the aircraft.
Mr. Modi’s decision to buy the jets, citing operational requirements of the IAF, had given a boost to the modernisation plans of the air force as the original deal for 126 Rafale jets through a tendering process had got stuck for years.
Updated: September 27, 2015 10:48 IST
India’s insistence on 50 per cent off-set clause, tweaking of weaponry technology and plans to set up two bases were among the sticking points
The talks for negotiating the cost of 36 Rafale fighter jets India is buying from France is going on at a “hectic” pace and are likely to be wrapped up in another one month, top defence sources said.
“The talks have been very hectic. There are a lot of fine prints that both sides look into. The talks will most likely take one more month,” defence sources told PTI.
“The talks are taking place since morning to evening. The French side is here thrice every month and every effort is to wrap up the talks fast,” they said.
The Defence Acquisition Council had on September 1 given the go ahead for further negotiations for purchase of 36 jets that had got stalled due to differences over a variety of issues.
India’s insistence on 50 per cent off-set clause, tweaking of weaponry technology and plans to set up two bases were among the sticking points that had cropped up during the talks that began after Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced the decision to acquire the fighter jets during his trip to France in April.
If things proceed smoothly, a government-to-government agreement between India and France could be signed soon, paving the way for the final contract for the purchase of the aircraft.
Mr. Modi’s decision to buy the jets, citing operational requirements of the IAF, had given a boost to the modernisation plans of the air force as the original deal for 126 Rafale jets through a tendering process had got stuck for years.
anant_s
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Rafale Deal: French team arrives today; $4.5 billion may be invested in ‘Make in India’ projects
NEW DELHI: A major breakthrough could be imminent in the Rafale fighter aircraft deal with the French side agreeing to an Indian condition that calls for investing 50% of the deal value in 'Make in India' projects in the defence, security and aerospace sectors. A top team from Paris, led by Engineer-General Stephane Reb, director of the International Directorate of the DGA (General Directorate for Armament) of the French ministry of defence will be in Delhi on Tuesday to work out final price negotiations and take the deal to the final stage, sources familiar with the development told ET.
The French manufacturers of the Rafale fighter will commit to making investments worth $4.5 billion in the Indian industry as part of the deal. Sources aware of the matter told ET that while the French side has accepted in principle a 50% offset clause, which requires the Rafale manufacturers to invest half the deal value in India, the government will also liberalise its stringent defence offsets policy to address some specific concerns of the manufacturer.
A final pact could be ready within a month. Negotiations had been stalled over these offset conditions.
The two sides are now working to finalise the draft Inter Governmental Agreement (IGA) that will be signed as part of the deal after the logjam over offsets and pricing was broken following top-level political intervention from New Delhi and Paris. Air Marshal SPB Sinha, the deputy chief of air staff, will lead the final price discussions from the Indian side. As reported by ET, the Rafale deal had been delayed following differences on pricing as well as the offsets clause between the two sides
The logjam has been broken with a broad agreement on hybrid offsets in which French investments in other Make in India projects will also be considered as meeting offset obligations.
The investments in India could include civilian projects that companies like Dassault and Thales are pursuing. One of the Make in India investments is likely to be in the manufacturing of components of the French Falcon executive jets as well as in the smart city projects of Thales.
On September 1, the Indian negotiating team had been given a go-ahead to conclude the deal following a top-level defence acquisition meet in the Capital. Prime Minister Narendra Modi met his French counterpart in the US on Monday and is expected to discuss the state of the negotiations.
The deal, clinched in principal during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's Paris trip in April, has since been stuck for over four months now.
Rafale Deal: French team arrives today; $4.5 billion may be invested in ‘Make in India’ projects - The Economic Times
NEW DELHI: A major breakthrough could be imminent in the Rafale fighter aircraft deal with the French side agreeing to an Indian condition that calls for investing 50% of the deal value in 'Make in India' projects in the defence, security and aerospace sectors. A top team from Paris, led by Engineer-General Stephane Reb, director of the International Directorate of the DGA (General Directorate for Armament) of the French ministry of defence will be in Delhi on Tuesday to work out final price negotiations and take the deal to the final stage, sources familiar with the development told ET.
The French manufacturers of the Rafale fighter will commit to making investments worth $4.5 billion in the Indian industry as part of the deal. Sources aware of the matter told ET that while the French side has accepted in principle a 50% offset clause, which requires the Rafale manufacturers to invest half the deal value in India, the government will also liberalise its stringent defence offsets policy to address some specific concerns of the manufacturer.
A final pact could be ready within a month. Negotiations had been stalled over these offset conditions.
The two sides are now working to finalise the draft Inter Governmental Agreement (IGA) that will be signed as part of the deal after the logjam over offsets and pricing was broken following top-level political intervention from New Delhi and Paris. Air Marshal SPB Sinha, the deputy chief of air staff, will lead the final price discussions from the Indian side. As reported by ET, the Rafale deal had been delayed following differences on pricing as well as the offsets clause between the two sides
The logjam has been broken with a broad agreement on hybrid offsets in which French investments in other Make in India projects will also be considered as meeting offset obligations.
The investments in India could include civilian projects that companies like Dassault and Thales are pursuing. One of the Make in India investments is likely to be in the manufacturing of components of the French Falcon executive jets as well as in the smart city projects of Thales.
On September 1, the Indian negotiating team had been given a go-ahead to conclude the deal following a top-level defence acquisition meet in the Capital. Prime Minister Narendra Modi met his French counterpart in the US on Monday and is expected to discuss the state of the negotiations.
The deal, clinched in principal during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's Paris trip in April, has since been stuck for over four months now.
Rafale Deal: French team arrives today; $4.5 billion may be invested in ‘Make in India’ projects - The Economic Times
Hindustani78
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Mr. Narendra Modi met Mr. Hollande on his last day in New York.
Rafale negotiations on track - The Hindu
Prime Minister Narendra Modi and President of France Francois Hollande expressed satisfaction over the ongoing negotiations on Dassault Rafale fighters that India plans to buy from France.
India had announced its decision to purchase 36 fighters off-the-shelf from France when Mr. Modi visited the country in March. There were reports that the negotiators were finding it difficult to reach a final sale agreement, and both leaders reviewed the progress of the deal when they met on Monday.
Mr. Modi also met Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, Mr. David Cameron on his last day in New York. A statement from the Prime Minister’s office said the four common themes that were discussed at his meetings with France, UK and the US were “climate change, terrorism, India’s desire for membership of the four export control regimes, and reform of the United Nations Security Council.”
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Mr. Narendra Modi met Mr. Hollande on his last day in New York.
Rafale negotiations on track - The Hindu
Prime Minister Narendra Modi and President of France Francois Hollande expressed satisfaction over the ongoing negotiations on Dassault Rafale fighters that India plans to buy from France.
India had announced its decision to purchase 36 fighters off-the-shelf from France when Mr. Modi visited the country in March. There were reports that the negotiators were finding it difficult to reach a final sale agreement, and both leaders reviewed the progress of the deal when they met on Monday.
Mr. Modi also met Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, Mr. David Cameron on his last day in New York. A statement from the Prime Minister’s office said the four common themes that were discussed at his meetings with France, UK and the US were “climate change, terrorism, India’s desire for membership of the four export control regimes, and reform of the United Nations Security Council.”
That French guy looks evil.
Hindustani78
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Rafale deal faces many obstacles - The Hindu
India and France are engaged in intense negotiations to thrash out an inter-governmental agreement which would provide the framework for final negotiation on the deal for 36 Rafale fighters.
Sources on both sides said the deal was far from final conclusion, and serious differences over almost every major aspect of the deal for the advanced fighters remain. Among them are French side’s concerns about a major Indian private sector conglomerate whose services are being recommended by some sections of the Indian government.
Officials said a delegation of senior officials from the French government had been in New Delhi for the past few days fine-tuning the agreement to be signed between the two sides.
The deal for the purchase of 36 fighters from Dassault announced by Prime Minister Narendra Modi in Paris in April is yet to be formally signed into an agreement. “It would be a framework under which we will have to deal with various aspects of the deal,” a source said.
One official in the know of things said the French side had several concerns that could play out as both sides sit down to carry out specific negotiations. Key among them is their questions about what role a major Indian private conglomerate would play in the deal. Due diligence done on the group, recommended strongly by a section in the government, has thrown up questions over its financial capabilities, the sources said.
The two sides could also find the negotiations running into serious trouble over the offset clause for the deal. While the MMRCA (Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) deal — the precursor to the present Rafale deal — had 50 per cent offset, and most of its fighters were to be assembled in India, the deal under negotiation is for off-the-shelf purchase of 36 fighters from France.
The Economic Times on Tuesday reported that a major breakthrough was imminent in the deal with the French side agreeing to an Indian condition that calls for investing 50 per cent of the deal value in ‘Make in India’ projects in the defence, security and aerospace sectors. Under the formula, the newspaper said, French investments in other projects, including in civilian sectors, will also be considered as meeting offset obligations. Sources said the French side was hopeful of a more liberalised offset policy, without which the contract would be difficult to execute. Another issue would be over the final price of the fighter. Sources said India could demand mounting of some non-French armaments on Rafale, which could also add to further complications in the deal.
India and France are engaged in intense negotiations to thrash out an inter-governmental agreement which would provide the framework for final negotiation on the deal for 36 Rafale fighters.
Sources on both sides said the deal was far from final conclusion, and serious differences over almost every major aspect of the deal for the advanced fighters remain. Among them are French side’s concerns about a major Indian private sector conglomerate whose services are being recommended by some sections of the Indian government.
Officials said a delegation of senior officials from the French government had been in New Delhi for the past few days fine-tuning the agreement to be signed between the two sides.
The deal for the purchase of 36 fighters from Dassault announced by Prime Minister Narendra Modi in Paris in April is yet to be formally signed into an agreement. “It would be a framework under which we will have to deal with various aspects of the deal,” a source said.
One official in the know of things said the French side had several concerns that could play out as both sides sit down to carry out specific negotiations. Key among them is their questions about what role a major Indian private conglomerate would play in the deal. Due diligence done on the group, recommended strongly by a section in the government, has thrown up questions over its financial capabilities, the sources said.
The two sides could also find the negotiations running into serious trouble over the offset clause for the deal. While the MMRCA (Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) deal — the precursor to the present Rafale deal — had 50 per cent offset, and most of its fighters were to be assembled in India, the deal under negotiation is for off-the-shelf purchase of 36 fighters from France.
The Economic Times on Tuesday reported that a major breakthrough was imminent in the deal with the French side agreeing to an Indian condition that calls for investing 50 per cent of the deal value in ‘Make in India’ projects in the defence, security and aerospace sectors. Under the formula, the newspaper said, French investments in other projects, including in civilian sectors, will also be considered as meeting offset obligations. Sources said the French side was hopeful of a more liberalised offset policy, without which the contract would be difficult to execute. Another issue would be over the final price of the fighter. Sources said India could demand mounting of some non-French armaments on Rafale, which could also add to further complications in the deal.
Hindustani78
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Rafale deal 'hopefuly' by year-end: IAF chief | Zee News
New Delhi: Admitting that there is a shortage of fighters, the Indian Air Force (IAF) chief, Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha, said on Saturday he is "hopeful" that the deal for purchasing 36 Rafale jets off-the-shelf from France will be finalised by the year-end.
He said that the negotiations for the deal, finalised during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to France in April, was progressing well.
"I am hopeful that the negotiations for the deal will not go beyond this year," the air chief said at the annual conference ahead of Air Force Day on October 8.
"This is my feeling," he added.
The air chief said it will take two to three years for the first of two Rafale squadrons to be operational.
He also said that at least six squadrons of medium multi-role combat aircraft were required, adding that the decision on acquiring these will be taken by the government.
New Delhi: Admitting that there is a shortage of fighters, the Indian Air Force (IAF) chief, Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha, said on Saturday he is "hopeful" that the deal for purchasing 36 Rafale jets off-the-shelf from France will be finalised by the year-end.
He said that the negotiations for the deal, finalised during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to France in April, was progressing well.
"I am hopeful that the negotiations for the deal will not go beyond this year," the air chief said at the annual conference ahead of Air Force Day on October 8.
"This is my feeling," he added.
The air chief said it will take two to three years for the first of two Rafale squadrons to be operational.
He also said that at least six squadrons of medium multi-role combat aircraft were required, adding that the decision on acquiring these will be taken by the government.
#hydra#
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every year has an year ending, tell me which year?2015 or 16 or 2050 or year 2100 .......
PARIKRAMA
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@Abingdonboy
IAF chief's statement seems a bit odd. I am sure he is unhappy that he is not getting new birds but equally it is surprising that he is quoting 2-3 months timeframe what we all thot would have ideally wrapped up earlier. Is it a sign of a complex deal which is going on? or is it a sign that these 36 jets itself is making the negotiators sweat way too much?
BTW in the interview he confirmed 6 sqds of rafale later so as a requirement to b elooked by government so make in india is there for sure and minimum 18x6+36=1444 birds are there for sure..
So congrats that we were right till the end when we said its coming come what may.. Only sad part is the time taken fro negotiations as well as announcement of Make in India part. You see, Modi will complete 2 years in May 2016. Effectively if he wants to use the Rafale Make in India deal investments as a showcase for elections in 2018-19, the NDA government must approve and announce the deal by May 2016 or before completion of 2 years in power. This gives a meaningful timeframe to see smart investments, and perhaps TOT flowing into MII complex as well as some other peripheral projects like Smart cities etc.
He did show confidence of finding the strength of squad back to 42 by 2027 but Rafale, Pakfa and investment flowing into AMCA and production rate of LCA (all versions) seems to be the core issues which may rock the boats of his planning and implementation.
Hope rafale and PAKFA issues gets solved in next 3 months and MII part in too for both the deals.
IAF chief's statement seems a bit odd. I am sure he is unhappy that he is not getting new birds but equally it is surprising that he is quoting 2-3 months timeframe what we all thot would have ideally wrapped up earlier. Is it a sign of a complex deal which is going on? or is it a sign that these 36 jets itself is making the negotiators sweat way too much?
BTW in the interview he confirmed 6 sqds of rafale later so as a requirement to b elooked by government so make in india is there for sure and minimum 18x6+36=1444 birds are there for sure..
So congrats that we were right till the end when we said its coming come what may.. Only sad part is the time taken fro negotiations as well as announcement of Make in India part. You see, Modi will complete 2 years in May 2016. Effectively if he wants to use the Rafale Make in India deal investments as a showcase for elections in 2018-19, the NDA government must approve and announce the deal by May 2016 or before completion of 2 years in power. This gives a meaningful timeframe to see smart investments, and perhaps TOT flowing into MII complex as well as some other peripheral projects like Smart cities etc.
He did show confidence of finding the strength of squad back to 42 by 2027 but Rafale, Pakfa and investment flowing into AMCA and production rate of LCA (all versions) seems to be the core issues which may rock the boats of his planning and implementation.
Hope rafale and PAKFA issues gets solved in next 3 months and MII part in too for both the deals.
PARIKRAMA
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For some more entertainment reading
IAF wants over 100 Rafale or similar jets
Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha addresses a press conference in New Delhi on October 3, 2015. Tribune photo: Mukesh Aggarwal
New Delhi, October 3
Indian Air Force today said it would need at least six squadrons comprising 108 Rafale or similar jets to shore up its capabilities as it hoped that the contract for 36 French fighter aircraft would be inked by year-end.
Noting that two squadron of 18 Rafale jets each might not be enough, Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha said his force would like to have at least six squadrons of the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA).
He hinted that even though the Rafale is the front- runner, India may go in for another aircraft with similar capabilities "if the deal is good".
“Definitely, we would like to have MMRCA variety of aircraft. At least about six squadrons to my mind. Let us see, there may be some other alternatives as well," Raha said addressing a press conference ahead of the Air Force Day on October 8.
He was replying to questions about the possibility of India Air Force wanting more than the 36 Rafales under a government to government deal announced by Prime Minister Narendra Modi during his trip to France in April.
Asked if the additional four squadrons of aircraft will be Rafales or if there is a possibility of other players getting into play, Raha said, "I may wish to have Rafale. But there are equally good aircraft. So if the deal is good and the government decides we need to have six of similar squadron...."
"There are alternatives. I cannot say I only want Rafale. I want capability of Rafale type aircraft. So the government will have a look at it and based on urgency and the type of contract is signed with Dassault Aviation, further decisions may be taken by the government. I cannot predict," he said.
Admitting that the IAF is currently "short" in terms of authorised strength of 42 squadrons, Raha said more aircraft are needed to replace many more squadrons in coming years.
"The need is there. As Air Force, we will like to have more of these (MMRCA) but it will have to be viable in terms of cost, in terms transfer of technology and in terms of Make in India policy that the government is trying to implement.
"So if those terms and conditions are good, then I am sure we will be able to get more. But as of now we are looking at 36," he said.
With the government cancelling the multi-billion tender for 126 MMRCA, there is renewed hope in the aviation industry that India may go in for fresh bids to fill up the gaps.
From Swedish firm Saab to US' Lockheed Martin and the France's Dassault Aviation, most of the global aircraft manufactures have offered their jets in line with the government's push for 'Make in India'. — PTI
IAF wants over 100 Rafale or similar jets
@SpArK @Abingdonboy @AUSTERLITZ @MilSpec @Gabriel92 @halloweene @Hindustani78
Capability of rafale type aircraft....
Food for thought or encouraging others to quote few things to increase competition and perhaps urgency of negotiations with added pressure on Dassault?
@halloweene Hows the progress in Dassault end? upscaling of production rate per month seems to be on schedule.. hearing of reached 2 per month now and will reach planned 3 per monh in 2016/17..
But what about the progress in Make in India part? The senior officer (last you said some senior lady posted in India) of Dassault has concluded anything? Any murmurs about whats holding the deal back now? i mean for both Make In India or 36 flyaway part?
BTW you are not seen here for long. Hope you are all well.. @sancho seems retired. Missing his voice and opinion.. If you come in contact with him, do point him here.. we always need good boarders like him..
IAF wants over 100 Rafale or similar jets
Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha addresses a press conference in New Delhi on October 3, 2015. Tribune photo: Mukesh Aggarwal
New Delhi, October 3
Indian Air Force today said it would need at least six squadrons comprising 108 Rafale or similar jets to shore up its capabilities as it hoped that the contract for 36 French fighter aircraft would be inked by year-end.
Noting that two squadron of 18 Rafale jets each might not be enough, Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha said his force would like to have at least six squadrons of the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA).
He hinted that even though the Rafale is the front- runner, India may go in for another aircraft with similar capabilities "if the deal is good".
“Definitely, we would like to have MMRCA variety of aircraft. At least about six squadrons to my mind. Let us see, there may be some other alternatives as well," Raha said addressing a press conference ahead of the Air Force Day on October 8.
He was replying to questions about the possibility of India Air Force wanting more than the 36 Rafales under a government to government deal announced by Prime Minister Narendra Modi during his trip to France in April.
Asked if the additional four squadrons of aircraft will be Rafales or if there is a possibility of other players getting into play, Raha said, "I may wish to have Rafale. But there are equally good aircraft. So if the deal is good and the government decides we need to have six of similar squadron...."
"There are alternatives. I cannot say I only want Rafale. I want capability of Rafale type aircraft. So the government will have a look at it and based on urgency and the type of contract is signed with Dassault Aviation, further decisions may be taken by the government. I cannot predict," he said.
Admitting that the IAF is currently "short" in terms of authorised strength of 42 squadrons, Raha said more aircraft are needed to replace many more squadrons in coming years.
"The need is there. As Air Force, we will like to have more of these (MMRCA) but it will have to be viable in terms of cost, in terms transfer of technology and in terms of Make in India policy that the government is trying to implement.
"So if those terms and conditions are good, then I am sure we will be able to get more. But as of now we are looking at 36," he said.
With the government cancelling the multi-billion tender for 126 MMRCA, there is renewed hope in the aviation industry that India may go in for fresh bids to fill up the gaps.
From Swedish firm Saab to US' Lockheed Martin and the France's Dassault Aviation, most of the global aircraft manufactures have offered their jets in line with the government's push for 'Make in India'. — PTI
IAF wants over 100 Rafale or similar jets
@SpArK @Abingdonboy @AUSTERLITZ @MilSpec @Gabriel92 @halloweene @Hindustani78
Capability of rafale type aircraft....
Food for thought or encouraging others to quote few things to increase competition and perhaps urgency of negotiations with added pressure on Dassault?
@halloweene Hows the progress in Dassault end? upscaling of production rate per month seems to be on schedule.. hearing of reached 2 per month now and will reach planned 3 per monh in 2016/17..
But what about the progress in Make in India part? The senior officer (last you said some senior lady posted in India) of Dassault has concluded anything? Any murmurs about whats holding the deal back now? i mean for both Make In India or 36 flyaway part?
BTW you are not seen here for long. Hope you are all well.. @sancho seems retired. Missing his voice and opinion.. If you come in contact with him, do point him here.. we always need good boarders like him..
Hindustani78
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[/URL]
Lockheed May Offer India Stealth F-35s to Rejoin Sales Race - Bloomberg Business
June 21, 2011
June 21 (Bloomberg) -- Lockheed Martin Corp. may offer its latest warplane, the F-35 stealth fighter, to India in a bid to rejoin the Asian country’s $11 billion combat-jet competition after its older F-16 model was eliminated.
The Senate committee request for a Pentagon study on selling F-35s to India was part of a broader amendment on U.S.- India military ties offered by Senators John Cornyn, Republican of Texas, where the fighter is produced, and Joseph Lieberman, independent of Connecticut, home to United Technologies Corp., which makes the plane’s engines.
The lawmakers also asked the Pentagon to study the possibility of a U.S.-India partnership for development of a replacement for the U.S. Air Force’s T-38 trainer jet. The planes, built by Northrop Grumman Corp.’s predecessor, have been in use since the 1960s.
PARIKRAMA
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@Abingdonboy
Prasun K. Sengupta said...
Negotiations are underway on whether to procure just an initial 36, or a first tranche of 80 Rafales. That's because Dassault has come up with a refined offer that makes it possible to order 80 Rafales that will be accompanied by a suitable direct/indirect industrial offsets package. Main problem was that the MoD never had a crafted guidelines/regulations governing indirect industrial offsets packages (thanks to the brain-dead AKA) & consequently it was let to the present RM to come up with realistic/viable indirect offsets possibilities. That's what caused the procedural delays. The 'desi' journalists had got it all wrong BECAUSE they ASSUMED that the procurement figure revolved around the figure of 36, instead of realising that the figure had increased to 80
80? not 36
he further says
Were you ever in any doubt about the eventual Rafale fleet-strength? Even today at noontime at IAF HQ the CAS of the IAF during his customary pre-Air Force day press conference had stated on-the-record that the IAF requires six squadrons of M-MRCAs, although he added that there are other M-MRCAs available. In my view, he should have been more careful with his words before babbling such soundbytes, because such remarks directly contract PM NaMo's statement in Paris about procuring Rafales directly from France ASAP. And when such contradictory statements are made, the PMO is bound to take IAF HQ to task for being careless with words. Another remark by the CAS today was that the Tejas Mk1, Tejas Mk1A & Tejas Mk2 don't exist--only the Tejas MRCA exists. What he meant by this will now be the subject of various conspiracy theories emanating from the band of 'desi' journalists, rest assured. And no one at the press-conference even asked him to clarify, or ask if the Tejas Mk2 doesn't exist physically or in the form of an R & D project, then for what have 99 F-414 turbofans been ordered from GE & why are they now being delivered since last June? Not a single question about the future of the An-32RE upgrade project or about the future of the AW-101 VVIP helicopters.
Negotiations are underway on whether to procure just an initial 36, or a first tranche of 80 Rafales. That's because Dassault has come up with a refined offer that makes it possible to order 80 Rafales that will be accompanied by a suitable direct/indirect industrial offsets package. Main problem was that the MoD never had a crafted guidelines/regulations governing indirect industrial offsets packages (thanks to the brain-dead AKA) & consequently it was let to the present RM to come up with realistic/viable indirect offsets possibilities. That's what caused the procedural delays. The 'desi' journalists had got it all wrong BECAUSE they ASSUMED that the procurement figure revolved around the figure of 36, instead of realising that the figure had increased to 80
80? not 36
he further says
Were you ever in any doubt about the eventual Rafale fleet-strength? Even today at noontime at IAF HQ the CAS of the IAF during his customary pre-Air Force day press conference had stated on-the-record that the IAF requires six squadrons of M-MRCAs, although he added that there are other M-MRCAs available. In my view, he should have been more careful with his words before babbling such soundbytes, because such remarks directly contract PM NaMo's statement in Paris about procuring Rafales directly from France ASAP. And when such contradictory statements are made, the PMO is bound to take IAF HQ to task for being careless with words. Another remark by the CAS today was that the Tejas Mk1, Tejas Mk1A & Tejas Mk2 don't exist--only the Tejas MRCA exists. What he meant by this will now be the subject of various conspiracy theories emanating from the band of 'desi' journalists, rest assured. And no one at the press-conference even asked him to clarify, or ask if the Tejas Mk2 doesn't exist physically or in the form of an R & D project, then for what have 99 F-414 turbofans been ordered from GE & why are they now being delivered since last June? Not a single question about the future of the An-32RE upgrade project or about the future of the AW-101 VVIP helicopters.
SR-91
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Prasun K. Sengupta said...
Negotiations are underway on whether to procure just an initial 36, or a first tranche of 80 Rafales. That's because Dassault has come up with a refined offer that makes it possible to order 80 Rafales that will be accompanied by a suitable direct/indirect industrial offsets package. Main problem was that the MoD never had a crafted guidelines/regulations governing indirect industrial offsets packages (thanks to the brain-dead AKA) & consequently it was let to the present RM to come up with realistic/viable indirect offsets possibilities. That's what caused the procedural delays. The 'desi' journalists had got it all wrong BECAUSE they ASSUMED that the procurement figure revolved around the figure of 36, instead of realising that the figure had increased to 80
80? not 36
he further says
Were you ever in any doubt about the eventual Rafale fleet-strength? Even today at noontime at IAF HQ the CAS of the IAF during his customary pre-Air Force day press conference had stated on-the-record that the IAF requires six squadrons of M-MRCAs, although he added that there are other M-MRCAs available. In my view, he should have been more careful with his words before babbling such soundbytes, because such remarks directly contract PM NaMo's statement in Paris about procuring Rafales directly from France ASAP. And when such contradictory statements are made, the PMO is bound to take IAF HQ to task for being careless with words. Another remark by the CAS today was that the Tejas Mk1, Tejas Mk1A & Tejas Mk2 don't exist--only the Tejas MRCA exists. What he meant by this will now be the subject of various conspiracy theories emanating from the band of 'desi' journalists, rest assured. And no one at the press-conference even asked him to clarify, or ask if the Tejas Mk2 doesn't exist physically or in the form of an R & D project, then for what have 99 F-414 turbofans been ordered from GE & why are they now being delivered since last June? Not a single question about the future of the An-32RE upgrade project or about the future of the AW-101 VVIP helicopters.
36 never made sense, given the threat perception and bird shortages.
THIS WAS ALWAYS ON CARD, it was well thought out strategy by Modi's govt.
French had to fall in line
.Now he brought another interesting point,......"then for what have 99 F-414 turbofans been ordered from GE & why are they now being delivered since last June".
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i will quote even more interesting. If rumoured offset figure is 4.5Bn$ then full deal is 9 Bn$. Now if its inclusive of weapons then jet deal Total cost of operation is 7.5 Bn $ meaning $94 Mn per jet . If the 9Bn is excluding weapon cost then also per jet cost is 112.5 Mn. Again these are total cost of operations for 40 years...
The only issue is 4.5Bn figure is for this "80" plan or not? No one can confirm that as no offical confirmation has been ever given on anythin related to cost....
One thing is clear, the negotiations are far more complex and definitely there is much bigger directly from france component to augment rafale increased rate of production.
Perhaps if 80 flyway goes thru then 90 under MII will make straight forward 170 birds.. Follow on may add even more for both parts..
So suddenly the hope is different... i guess soemthing really complex cooking here..An elaborate 7 course meal perhaps..
99 GE 414 case and the talk of no MK2 makes me believe MK2 program is priortised atm purely for IN. IAF i believe may evaluate at an appropriate time MK2 coming out for IN.
But interestingly, why such big numbers as IN i dont think has stated something like 50 MK2 jets requirement with 1:1 engine replacements as spares for future..
Perhaps this may imply iAF is keen on MK1 and whatever upgrades HAL ADA can come with DRDO and not give paper dreams of MK2 solution for any present insufficiency or not meeting requirements or any small issue..
The only issue is 4.5Bn figure is for this "80" plan or not? No one can confirm that as no offical confirmation has been ever given on anythin related to cost....
One thing is clear, the negotiations are far more complex and definitely there is much bigger directly from france component to augment rafale increased rate of production.
Perhaps if 80 flyway goes thru then 90 under MII will make straight forward 170 birds.. Follow on may add even more for both parts..
So suddenly the hope is different... i guess soemthing really complex cooking here..An elaborate 7 course meal perhaps..
99 GE 414 case and the talk of no MK2 makes me believe MK2 program is priortised atm purely for IN. IAF i believe may evaluate at an appropriate time MK2 coming out for IN.
But interestingly, why such big numbers as IN i dont think has stated something like 50 MK2 jets requirement with 1:1 engine replacements as spares for future..
Perhaps this may imply iAF is keen on MK1 and whatever upgrades HAL ADA can come with DRDO and not give paper dreams of MK2 solution for any present insufficiency or not meeting requirements or any small issue..
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80 off the shelf and how many made in India then?@Abingdonboy
Prasun K. Sengupta said...
Negotiations are underway on whether to procure just an initial 36, or a first tranche of 80 Rafales. That's because Dassault has come up with a refined offer that makes it possible to order 80 Rafales that will be accompanied by a suitable direct/indirect industrial offsets package. Main problem was that the MoD never had a crafted guidelines/regulations governing indirect industrial offsets packages (thanks to the brain-dead AKA) & consequently it was let to the present RM to come up with realistic/viable indirect offsets possibilities. That's what caused the procedural delays. The 'desi' journalists had got it all wrong BECAUSE they ASSUMED that the procurement figure revolved around the figure of 36, instead of realising that the figure had increased to 80
80? not 36
he further says
Were you ever in any doubt about the eventual Rafale fleet-strength? Even today at noontime at IAF HQ the CAS of the IAF during his customary pre-Air Force day press conference had stated on-the-record that the IAF requires six squadrons of M-MRCAs, although he added that there are other M-MRCAs available. In my view, he should have been more careful with his words before babbling such soundbytes, because such remarks directly contract PM NaMo's statement in Paris about procuring Rafales directly from France ASAP. And when such contradictory statements are made, the PMO is bound to take IAF HQ to task for being careless with words. Another remark by the CAS today was that the Tejas Mk1, Tejas Mk1A & Tejas Mk2 don't exist--only the Tejas MRCA exists. What he meant by this will now be the subject of various conspiracy theories emanating from the band of 'desi' journalists, rest assured. And no one at the press-conference even asked him to clarify, or ask if the Tejas Mk2 doesn't exist physically or in the form of an R & D project, then for what have 99 F-414 turbofans been ordered from GE & why are they now being delivered since last June? Not a single question about the future of the An-32RE upgrade project or about the future of the AW-101 VVIP helicopters.
Things are getting more and more complex with every day! The only certainties are the Rafale is coming (not clear just when as of yet) and that 36 will never be the final figure.
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