Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[PARIKRAMA]

Cross posting from another forum

Q You know something about an annoncement for, say, 36 firm + 44 options ?
Picdelamirand-oil I was said that the 9 billions was for 80.
(Pic is long associated with Dassault and retired but still has a tight leash on info from corridors of power)

$9 Bn package for 80..with total cost of ownership including everything (weapons infra training etc ) for 40 years

@Abingdonboy @SR-91 Once this info becomes officially known i can tell you the negotiations by Indian side is pretty much bang on target.. I say that team deserves much laurels for making all this happen for 9Bn..effectively each rafale may be around $75 mn only with price of weapon/infra training etc around $2.5-3Bn

thats the same as FAF price in Euros of 2012 (Euro 73 Mn) but with 40 years schedule..

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@PARIKRAMA

So the total number is just 80

But the requirement is for 100 Plus

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@PARIKRAMA

So the total number is just 80

But the requirement is for 100 Plus

My dear brother thats off the shelf 80 - 36+44 in 2 tranches in line with Dassault increase in rpoduction to 3 rafales a month
and rest will be make in India.. Come what may, Na Mo will not abandon MII dream of Dassault rafale in India nor Dassault would be foolish to invest 4.5 Bn in staggered basis just to make some falcon jet parts.. Its all falling in place step by step..

 

[Abingdonboy]

Cross posting from another forum

Q You know something about an annoncement for, say, 36 firm + 44 options ?
Picdelamirand-oil I was said that the 9 billions was for 80.
(Pic is long associated with Dassault and retired but still has a tight leash on info from corridors of power)

$9 Bn package for 80..with total cost of ownership including everything (weapons infra training etc ) for 40 years

@Abingdonboy @SR-91 Once this info becomes officially known i can tell you the negotiations by Indian side is pretty much bang on target.. I say that team deserves much laurels for making all this happen for 9Bn..effectively each rafale may be around $75 mn only with price of weapon/infra training etc around $2.5-3Bn

thats the same as FAF price in Euros of 2012 (Euro 73 Mn) but with 40 years schedule..

That's some deal IF it comes to be. Let's wait for confirmation but this will certainly shut up many naysayers; those predicting only 36 Rafales and calling it overpriced.

 

[surya kiran]

80 off the shelf and how many made in India then?


Things are getting more and more complex with every day! The only certainties are the Rafale is coming (not clear just when as of yet) and that 36 will never be the final figure.

My friend, I have told you this earlier and am telling you again. More than 120 Rafales are coming in. It is going to be Reliance. Wait for December. Extra capacity of PakFa is going to be bought for 50 birds, at least. By 2020, Rafale and PakFa will be in the IAF kitty. The threat perception is no longer Pakistan. Hence, the urgency.

 

[Abingdonboy]

My friend, I have told you this earlier and am telling you again. More than 120 Rafales are coming in. It is going to be Reliance. Wait for December. Extra capacity of PakFa is going to be bought for 50 birds, at least. By 2020, Rafale and PakFa will be in the IAF kitty. The threat perception is no longer Pakistan. Hence, the urgency.

This PAK-FA purchase, will it be similar to the K agreement as per the MKI deal wherein the IAF accepted 1 SQN of Su-30Ks and once the MKI was fully developed the IAF handed them back to the Russians in favour of the full-fledged MKIs?

It is going to be Reliance

Unfortunately this is what I hear also.

@Abingdonboy @SR-91 Once this info becomes officially known i can tell you the negotiations by Indian side is pretty much bang on target.. I say that team deserves much laurels for making all this happen for 9Bn..effectively each rafale may be around $75 mn only with price of weapon/infra training etc around $2.5-3Bn

+ @PARIKRAMA I agree fully, the CNC has done an excellent job and clearly this is at the behest of the PMO. The DM seems to have been cut out of the loop entirely (a wise decision by the PM).

 

[surya kiran]

This PAK-FA purchase, will it be similar to the K agreement as per the MKI deal wherein the IAF accepted 1 SQN of Su-30Ks and once the MKI was fully developed the IAF handed them back to the Russians in favour of the full-fledged MKIs?

Yes. And its going to be more like 3 squadrons.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Yes. And its going to be more like 3 squadrons.

As long as a similar agreement is in place then I (and more importantly the IAF) am satisfied. This will certainly be a optimal solution to what is a colossal screwup (the FGFA project) to date. This move will take the pressure off the IAF to a large degree and will make them the undisputed rulers of Asian skies by 2022.

 

[surya kiran]

As long as a similar agreement is in place then I (and more importantly the IAF) am satisfied. This will certainly be a optimal solution to what is a colossal screwup (the FGFA project) to date. This move will take the pressure off the IAF to a large degree and will make them the undisputed rulers of Asian skies by 2022.

Do you know what my worry is? IAF will use the single seater version and then turn around and say, oh we dont need 2 seater. More than capable of this.

 

[SR-91]

if what u said is true then i think it will be two pronged
1. 36 rafale sign may happen in december (if not in jan of course) in France as its intended for French Domestic masses
2. Make in India part commitment may be in Jan as that will serve better Indian domestic audience response.

Maybe, it has to be one of those dates. But IMO, Modi will hold out for another month and announce it over R-Day visit.
But hey, if he announces it in December, it's less trolling we have to put up with.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Do you know what my worry is? IAF will use the single seater version and then turn around and say, oh we dont need 2 seater. More than capable of this.

Either way they need the FGFA.

I suppose their is a risk of them dropping the two-seat requirement once they have the single seat PAK-FA in service. This may be true especially if the FGFA program runs into difficulty in producing a twin seat version- the IAF may have to take a compromise (single seat FGFAs).

 

[danger007]

As long as a similar agreement is in place then I (and more importantly the IAF) am satisfied. This will certainly be a optimal solution to what is a colossal screwup (the FGFA project) to date. This move will take the pressure off the IAF to a large degree and will make them the undisputed rulers of Asian skies by 2022.

may be after 2022.. . yes I agree with you on K theory.... I guess it would be better to go for 3 Sq of Pak-Fa first then customised FGFA... 2 sq of Rafael is not feasible even govt is aware of that..

 

[surya kiran]

This may be true especially if the FGFA program runs into difficulty in producing a twin seat version- the IAF may have to take a compromise (single seat FGFAs).

This would be a much more realistic path to take.

 

[Abingdonboy]

if what u said is true then i think it will be two pronged
1. 36 rafale sign may happen in december (if not in jan of course) in France as its intended for French Domestic masses
2. Make in India part commitment may be in Jan as that will serve better Indian domestic audience response.

I doubt there will be any defence related news announced during the multilateral climate change conference- it really isn't the done thing. Also, if Hollande is coming in January it makes sense to hold out for then. Also I don't think it makes much sense to break up the deal into components and to announce them separately- this isn't really how these things work.

R-day 2016 is d-day as far as the Rafale deal is concerned IMHO. If there is no firm agreement by the end of January we should all be bitterly disappointed- the stars appear to be aligning for that timeframe.

This would be a much more realistic path to take.

The FGFA will be the PAK-FA's MKI (i.e. entirely customised for IAF requirements) so it is coming the only question is if it will have a two seat variant.

 

[SR-91]

Cross posting from another forum

Q You know something about an annoncement for, say, 36 firm + 44 options ?
Picdelamirand-oil I was said that the 9 billions was for 80.
(Pic is long associated with Dassault and retired but still has a tight leash on info from corridors of power)

$9 Bn package for 80..with total cost of ownership including everything (weapons infra training etc ) for 40 years

@Abingdonboy @SR-91 Once this info becomes officially known i can tell you the negotiations by Indian side is pretty much bang on target.. I say that team deserves much laurels for making all this happen for 9Bn..effectively each rafale may be around $75 mn only with price of weapon/infra training etc around $2.5-3Bn

thats the same as FAF price in Euros of 2012 (Euro 73 Mn) but with 40 years schedule..

I was dying to do this at the faces of all naysayers n trollers. Today

$75 MN is really a good price. Negotiation committee did a lot better job than I thought. Credit goes to all those involved.

Rafale saga is now almost finished. @Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA u guys ready for trolls on FGFA.