Agent_47
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Same reasoning can be done when you were pitching for Mig35.
Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]
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Hindustani78
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France to train would-be Rafale pilots from Egypt
3 Sep, 2015
Text: Reuters
For decades a symbol of fruitless endeavours to sell French fighter jets abroad, the Mont-de-Marsan pilot training centre in southwestern France opened its doors this summer to a large contingent of would-be Rafale pilots from Egypt - testimony to a long-awaited commercial breakthrough in which big sales contracts have been signed with Cairo, Doha and several others buyers whose multi-billion-euro deals include cockpit schooling.
In pic: A Rafale fighter jet takes off from the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Red carpet treatment for first foreign visitors
3 Sep, 2015
Red carpet treatment for first foreign visitors includes a 'rest room Egypt' relaxation space on the ground floor of the premises and upstairs photos of the Egyptian pilots proudly lined up in front of the latest-generation jets they will soon take command of. Picture taken August 31, 2015.
In pic: French soldiers and pilots work on a Rafale jet fighter at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Latest-generation jets
3 Sep, 2015
French soldiers prepare a jet fuel tank for a Rafale jet fighter at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Pilot trains on a Rafale jet fighter simulator
3 Sep, 2015
A pilot trains on a Rafale jet fighter simulator at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Mont de Marsan
3 Sep, 2015
A Rafale fighter jet flies over the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Training course on Rafale jet fighters
3 Sep, 2015
Pilots attend a training course on Rafale jet fighters at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Pilots train on a Rafale jet fighter simulator
3 Sep, 2015
Pilots train on a Rafale jet fighter simulator at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
3 Sep, 2015
Text: Reuters
For decades a symbol of fruitless endeavours to sell French fighter jets abroad, the Mont-de-Marsan pilot training centre in southwestern France opened its doors this summer to a large contingent of would-be Rafale pilots from Egypt - testimony to a long-awaited commercial breakthrough in which big sales contracts have been signed with Cairo, Doha and several others buyers whose multi-billion-euro deals include cockpit schooling.
In pic: A Rafale fighter jet takes off from the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Red carpet treatment for first foreign visitors
3 Sep, 2015
Red carpet treatment for first foreign visitors includes a 'rest room Egypt' relaxation space on the ground floor of the premises and upstairs photos of the Egyptian pilots proudly lined up in front of the latest-generation jets they will soon take command of. Picture taken August 31, 2015.
In pic: French soldiers and pilots work on a Rafale jet fighter at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Latest-generation jets
3 Sep, 2015
French soldiers prepare a jet fuel tank for a Rafale jet fighter at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Pilot trains on a Rafale jet fighter simulator
3 Sep, 2015
A pilot trains on a Rafale jet fighter simulator at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Mont de Marsan
3 Sep, 2015
A Rafale fighter jet flies over the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Training course on Rafale jet fighters
3 Sep, 2015
Pilots attend a training course on Rafale jet fighters at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Pilots train on a Rafale jet fighter simulator
3 Sep, 2015
Pilots train on a Rafale jet fighter simulator at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Hindustani78
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Rafale jet fighter simulator
3 Sep, 2015
A pilot trains on a Rafale jet fighter simulator at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Engine of a Rafale jet
3 Sep, 2015
An engine of a Rafale jet fighter is pictured at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
M88 engines which powers Rafale jet
3 Sep, 2015
A view shows M88 engines, produced by Snecma and which power Rafale jet fighters, at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
M88 engines
3 Sep, 2015
A view shows M88 engines, produced by Snecma and which power Rafale jet fighters, at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
French soldiers and pilots work on Rafale jet
3 Sep, 2015
French soldiers and pilots work on Rafale jet fighters at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
French soldier works on a Rafale jet fighter
3 Sep, 2015
A French soldier works on a Rafale jet fighter at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Mont-de-Marsan pilot training centre
3 Sep, 2015
A Rafale fighter jet flies over the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
3 Sep, 2015
A pilot trains on a Rafale jet fighter simulator at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Engine of a Rafale jet
3 Sep, 2015
An engine of a Rafale jet fighter is pictured at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
M88 engines which powers Rafale jet
3 Sep, 2015
A view shows M88 engines, produced by Snecma and which power Rafale jet fighters, at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
M88 engines
3 Sep, 2015
A view shows M88 engines, produced by Snecma and which power Rafale jet fighters, at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
French soldiers and pilots work on Rafale jet
3 Sep, 2015
French soldiers and pilots work on Rafale jet fighters at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
French soldier works on a Rafale jet fighter
3 Sep, 2015
A French soldier works on a Rafale jet fighter at the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Mont-de-Marsan pilot training centre
3 Sep, 2015
A Rafale fighter jet flies over the air base in Mont de Marsan, southwestern France.
Abingdonboy
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Any news on the French DM's visit to India? This was meant to happen at the end of last week but no news of it, he delayed his visit by a few days initially pending DAC clearance of the Rafale purchase so is he delaying it further for more good news?
@halloweene @Gabriel92 @Water Car Engineer @SR-91 @Koovie @PARIKRAMA @Hindustani78 @ranjeet @Star Wars any updates?
@halloweene @Gabriel92 @Water Car Engineer @SR-91 @Koovie @PARIKRAMA @Hindustani78 @ranjeet @Star Wars any updates?
SR-91
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I believe the situation in Syria will hold back the French DM.
2 Rafale jets just began reconnaissance flights and the bombing mission is to begin. Millions of refugees are heading to Europe, it HAS to be on their agenda. Stop the Flow of refugees into Europe will gain priority over signing of the deal.
Hindustani78
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India's big-ticket 36 Rafale deal: Stuck in negotiations
New Delhi, Sep 17, 2015,(IANS)
Five months after India announced the deal to purchase 36 Rafale fighter jets "off the shelf" from France, much of the expectations from the big-ticket deal appears to have evaporated due to protracted negotiations that look set to continue for some more months
While voices from both sides say there is hope for the deal being concluded by December this year, on the French side there is some frustration at the long-winded nature of the negotiations.
The deal for purchase of the 36 Rafale jets, by Dassault Aviation, was announced during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Paris in April. India decided to purchase the 36 jets from Paris in a flyaway condition in a government-to-government agreement.
The Indian Air Force, which badly needs to replace its aging fleet of Soviet MIG aircraft, was looking forward to the new planes.
However, the offsets clause that requires 50 percent of indigenous content in big-ticket defence contracts is believed to be a stumbling block, as also the pricing.
The deal is estimated at $8 billion. While India and France are still involved in the sticky negotiations, Egypt has already welcomed three Rafale jets into the country in July - five months after inking a deal for 24 of the French jets.
Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi inked the contract for 24 Rafales in Cairo in February, in an estimated $5.6 billion deal. Qatar also inked a deal in March this year for purchase of 24 Rafale jets.
According to reports, three twin-seat variant of the jet were delivered in Cairo on July 21. Egypt inked a deal to acquire 16 two-seaters and eight single-seaters Rafale fighters. France is also training Egyptian pilots to fly the Rafale.
French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian visited Cairo a few days after France delivered the jets. He was to visit India on August 31 during which the deal was expected to be inked. Le Drian was in Malaysia to hardsell the Rafale and the Mistral warship.
However, he flew straight on to Europe after it became known that the negotiations were not likely to be concluded soon.
The Indian defence ministry had at the time refused to confirm his visit.
According to French envoy Francois Richier, the defence minister had to fly to Europe to attend a EU defence ministers meeting. Richier said France is hopeful of concluding the negotiations soon.
The progress in negotiations was reviewed by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), the top acquisition body of the defence ministry, chaired by Minister Manohar Parrikar on September 1. Sources said the progress in talks between both sides was "satisfactory".
"The negotiations are on the right track. The DAC was briefed about it, and they gave the go ahead," an official told IANS, not wanting to be identified.
According to informed sources, France is reported to be unhappy over the offset clause that requires it to invest 50 percent of the value of the contract in India. This clause was present in the original deal for 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) Rafale jets.
According to sources, the French may be given a "concession" in the clause and talks are on. However, a final decision is yet to be taken -- one of the reasons for the delay in the deal. Another factor is that India has asked for two air bases for the 36 jets, which France is reported to be unhappy about as it would lead to cost escalation, sources said.
The French side is believed to be of the view that the Rafale should not be cheaper priced for India, as compared to the deals inked with Egypt and Qatar.
The Indian Air Force is expected to be down to 32 squadrons by the end of this year - 576 fighter jets short of the 750-strong fleet required as per the IAF vision document, in case of a two-front war with Pakistan and China.
At least three squadrons of the vintage Soviet Union-origin MiG-21 and MiG-27 single engine aircraft are scheduled to be phased out, officially by the year-end.
The IAF currently has 33 combat squadrons against a sanctioned strength of 39.5, which is sought to be raised to 42.
New Delhi, Sep 17, 2015,(IANS)
Five months after India announced the deal to purchase 36 Rafale fighter jets "off the shelf" from France, much of the expectations from the big-ticket deal appears to have evaporated due to protracted negotiations that look set to continue for some more months
While voices from both sides say there is hope for the deal being concluded by December this year, on the French side there is some frustration at the long-winded nature of the negotiations.
The deal for purchase of the 36 Rafale jets, by Dassault Aviation, was announced during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Paris in April. India decided to purchase the 36 jets from Paris in a flyaway condition in a government-to-government agreement.
The Indian Air Force, which badly needs to replace its aging fleet of Soviet MIG aircraft, was looking forward to the new planes.
However, the offsets clause that requires 50 percent of indigenous content in big-ticket defence contracts is believed to be a stumbling block, as also the pricing.
The deal is estimated at $8 billion. While India and France are still involved in the sticky negotiations, Egypt has already welcomed three Rafale jets into the country in July - five months after inking a deal for 24 of the French jets.
Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi inked the contract for 24 Rafales in Cairo in February, in an estimated $5.6 billion deal. Qatar also inked a deal in March this year for purchase of 24 Rafale jets.
According to reports, three twin-seat variant of the jet were delivered in Cairo on July 21. Egypt inked a deal to acquire 16 two-seaters and eight single-seaters Rafale fighters. France is also training Egyptian pilots to fly the Rafale.
French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian visited Cairo a few days after France delivered the jets. He was to visit India on August 31 during which the deal was expected to be inked. Le Drian was in Malaysia to hardsell the Rafale and the Mistral warship.
However, he flew straight on to Europe after it became known that the negotiations were not likely to be concluded soon.
The Indian defence ministry had at the time refused to confirm his visit.
According to French envoy Francois Richier, the defence minister had to fly to Europe to attend a EU defence ministers meeting. Richier said France is hopeful of concluding the negotiations soon.
The progress in negotiations was reviewed by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), the top acquisition body of the defence ministry, chaired by Minister Manohar Parrikar on September 1. Sources said the progress in talks between both sides was "satisfactory".
"The negotiations are on the right track. The DAC was briefed about it, and they gave the go ahead," an official told IANS, not wanting to be identified.
According to informed sources, France is reported to be unhappy over the offset clause that requires it to invest 50 percent of the value of the contract in India. This clause was present in the original deal for 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) Rafale jets.
According to sources, the French may be given a "concession" in the clause and talks are on. However, a final decision is yet to be taken -- one of the reasons for the delay in the deal. Another factor is that India has asked for two air bases for the 36 jets, which France is reported to be unhappy about as it would lead to cost escalation, sources said.
The French side is believed to be of the view that the Rafale should not be cheaper priced for India, as compared to the deals inked with Egypt and Qatar.
The Indian Air Force is expected to be down to 32 squadrons by the end of this year - 576 fighter jets short of the 750-strong fleet required as per the IAF vision document, in case of a two-front war with Pakistan and China.
At least three squadrons of the vintage Soviet Union-origin MiG-21 and MiG-27 single engine aircraft are scheduled to be phased out, officially by the year-end.
The IAF currently has 33 combat squadrons against a sanctioned strength of 39.5, which is sought to be raised to 42.
PARIKRAMA
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DASSAULT AVIATION: Rafale- "No worries" for the contract to India-Le Drian
STRASBOURG, September 14 (Reuters) - Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian was very confident Monday for the sale of 36 Rafale combat aircraft from Dassault Aviation in India.
"This is changing though. I have no concern. It is only the procedure," said he told Reuters on the sidelines of the Summer University of Defence in Strasbourg.
The CEO of Dassault Aviation, Eric Trappier, present at the same event, declined to comment on the subject.
Jean-Yves Le Drian had given early September in a visit to India after returning from a trip to Malaysia, in the absence of decisive progress in the negotiations on this agreement started 36 Rafale early May with New Delhi.
The Indian military procurement committee (Defence Acquisition Council) in early September gave the green light to continue discussions on the purchase of Rafale, which has yet to be validated by other government agencies before it can be signed with France .
Sources close to the case had said in early August that talks stumbled on differences between Paris and New Delhi, repeating partially blocking points that had stalled the previous exclusive negotiations initiated in early 2012 for a contract of 126 Rafale, which 108 manufactured in India. (Cyril Altmeyer and Marine Pennetier, edited by Jean-Michel Belot)
DASSAULT AVIATION : Rafale-"Aucune inquiétude" pour le contrat en Inde-Le Drian, infos et conseils valeur FR0000121725, AM - Les Echos Bourse
For Rafale lovers and haters, an opinion from Prasun K Sengupta for a pointed question on this subject.
-------- said...
Look at out retarded babus:
India's big-ticket Rafale deal for 36 jets stuck in negotiations - The Economic Times
So that DAC green light was MEANINGLESS, the Rafale saga drags on with no end in sight only thing this new govt has done is reduce the number!! NOTHING has been achieved.
Mark my words we will never get a single Rafale. In a few month we will STILL be talking with the French and then the PMO will scrap the entire process.
You were saying we would be getting 189 rafales a few days ago. What nonsense was was that???
Prasun K. Sengupta said...
To -------- :
So you think once the DAC approves a contract, nothing can stop it from being inked? I had repeatedly explained that the DAC's approval only means that competitive evaluations & contract negotiations can be undertaken by the Defence Procurement Board & only after final approval is accorded by the Cabinet Committee on National Security can contract signature take place.
All this talk of 50% offsets for only 36 MMRCAs is sheer nonsense. No OEM in the world will agree to such terms & conditions. The offsets clause will therefore apply to only 189 MMRCAs to be procured. The real & only impediment is about the IAF's refusal to forego the existing discredited practice of maintaining a customised BRD for each aircraft-type. The way ahead lies in appointing the OEM-specified Indian vendor or Indian representative of the foreign OEM as the total support services provider. Only this way will the MMRCA's through-life MRO costs come done. Nothing else will work. The MoD & Union MoF is however unwilling to accept this fact-of-life. And both these ministries are headed by civilian politicians as ministers, & not Babus.
September 18, 2015 at 4:26 AM
Saurav Jha answered abt rafale (from AMA reddit)
Q:Why do we need Rafale when Su-30MKI does the job? It seems to be many times expensive than even F-35 in lifecycle costs! No article in Indian MSM has so far addressed this question,just wisecracks on maintainability of Su-30MKI!If that were so,we could just address maintainability of Su-30MKI and that would be it! So why the white elephant?Why not more Mig-29s or Su-30MKIs?
SJHA1618[S] 4 points 2 days ago
It seems the IAF wants the Rafale for its lower RCS coupled with on board EW characteristics for the penetrating mission.
DASSAULT AVIATION: Rafale- "No worries" for the contract to India-Le Drian
STRASBOURG, September 14 (Reuters) - Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian was very confident Monday for the sale of 36 Rafale combat aircraft from Dassault Aviation in India.
"This is changing though. I have no concern. It is only the procedure," said he told Reuters on the sidelines of the Summer University of Defence in Strasbourg.
The CEO of Dassault Aviation, Eric Trappier, present at the same event, declined to comment on the subject.
Jean-Yves Le Drian had given early September in a visit to India after returning from a trip to Malaysia, in the absence of decisive progress in the negotiations on this agreement started 36 Rafale early May with New Delhi.
The Indian military procurement committee (Defence Acquisition Council) in early September gave the green light to continue discussions on the purchase of Rafale, which has yet to be validated by other government agencies before it can be signed with France .
Sources close to the case had said in early August that talks stumbled on differences between Paris and New Delhi, repeating partially blocking points that had stalled the previous exclusive negotiations initiated in early 2012 for a contract of 126 Rafale, which 108 manufactured in India. (Cyril Altmeyer and Marine Pennetier, edited by Jean-Michel Belot)
DASSAULT AVIATION : Rafale-"Aucune inquiétude" pour le contrat en Inde-Le Drian, infos et conseils valeur FR0000121725, AM - Les Echos Bourse
For Rafale lovers and haters, an opinion from Prasun K Sengupta for a pointed question on this subject.
-------- said...
Look at out retarded babus:
India's big-ticket Rafale deal for 36 jets stuck in negotiations - The Economic Times
So that DAC green light was MEANINGLESS, the Rafale saga drags on with no end in sight only thing this new govt has done is reduce the number!! NOTHING has been achieved.
Mark my words we will never get a single Rafale. In a few month we will STILL be talking with the French and then the PMO will scrap the entire process.
You were saying we would be getting 189 rafales a few days ago. What nonsense was was that???
Prasun K. Sengupta said...
To -------- :
So you think once the DAC approves a contract, nothing can stop it from being inked? I had repeatedly explained that the DAC's approval only means that competitive evaluations & contract negotiations can be undertaken by the Defence Procurement Board & only after final approval is accorded by the Cabinet Committee on National Security can contract signature take place.
All this talk of 50% offsets for only 36 MMRCAs is sheer nonsense. No OEM in the world will agree to such terms & conditions. The offsets clause will therefore apply to only 189 MMRCAs to be procured. The real & only impediment is about the IAF's refusal to forego the existing discredited practice of maintaining a customised BRD for each aircraft-type. The way ahead lies in appointing the OEM-specified Indian vendor or Indian representative of the foreign OEM as the total support services provider. Only this way will the MMRCA's through-life MRO costs come done. Nothing else will work. The MoD & Union MoF is however unwilling to accept this fact-of-life. And both these ministries are headed by civilian politicians as ministers, & not Babus.
September 18, 2015 at 4:26 AM
Saurav Jha answered abt rafale (from AMA reddit)
Q:Why do we need Rafale when Su-30MKI does the job? It seems to be many times expensive than even F-35 in lifecycle costs! No article in Indian MSM has so far addressed this question,just wisecracks on maintainability of Su-30MKI!If that were so,we could just address maintainability of Su-30MKI and that would be it! So why the white elephant?Why not more Mig-29s or Su-30MKIs?
SJHA1618[S] 4 points 2 days ago
It seems the IAF wants the Rafale for its lower RCS coupled with on board EW characteristics for the penetrating mission.
DASSAULT AVIATION: Rafale- "No worries" for the contract to India-Le Drian
PARIKRAMA
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after a lot of finding, courtesy Picdelamirand-oil, i could finally locate the cost composition of any rafale acquisition.
This helps in understanding any rafale deal
@Abingdonboy Hope you find this interesting
This helps in understanding any rafale deal
@Abingdonboy Hope you find this interesting
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