Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[MirageBlue]

I think you are wrong.
India has seen with M2000 fleet the limitations of a so small fleet and also how good are the Dassault birds (continued with Rafale).
The indian Rafale fleet will never stand at 36. Never.

It won't be just 36 for all time. But it will not be 114 + 36 either. The UAE deal gives us an idea on how expensive Rafale F4 will be. 14 billion euros for 80 Rafale F4s, which when extrapolated to 114 plus an assembly line in India would easily cross $25 billion. there is no way the GoI will ever approve such a monumentally expensive deal.

But the IAF is insisting on continuing with trying to get the 114 MRFA deal going, so the GoI will let them continue.

Instead, the chances of getting 36 or 48 more Rafales would have been a lot better. More affordable and deliveries could have been expedited.

Why is India going for su-30 + mig-29, when the PM himself said "agar rafale hota.....".

Don't make sense for me. Please enlighten if you can crack this?

The Su-30MKIs are the last attrition replacements before the Su-30MKI line is closed at HAL. After that HAL Nashik switches to building other types or (more likely) to the Super-30 upgrade and MRO.

MiG-29s, well the IAF has been quite pleased with the MiG-29UPG program. The type is serving well with it being the favoured type even in Ladakh. A detachment of MiG-29UPGs is now almost permanently based at Leh AFS.

Russia offered un-used MiG-29 airframes that could be upgraded to the UPG standard at ~40 million per airframe. Given how badly the IAF needs fighters, this was a welcome opportunity. So the airframes were evaluated, found to be in suitable condition and the IAF agreed to the deal.

the MiG-29UPG will continue into 2035, with suitable upgrades including the Astra BVRAAM. Makes sense to buy these 21 to add a 4th squadron of MiG-29UPGs.

There are rumours that the IAF requested that these MiG-29UPGs be equipped with AESA radars. Not sure if that will be done or not, but given that HAL is working on a program to upgrade the Navy's MiG-29Ks with HAL built Mission Computer and Litening LDP, it is possible that they could do the same for these MiG-29s as well in addition to the UPG upgrade.

 

[BON PLAN]

It won't be just 36 for all time. But it will not be 114 + 36 either. The UAE deal gives us an idea on how expensive Rafale F4 will be. 14 billion euros for 80 Rafale F4s, which when extrapolated to 114 plus an assembly line in India would easily cross $25 billion. there is no way the GoI will ever approve such a monumentally expensive deal.

But the IAF is insisting on continuing with trying to get the 114 MRFA deal going, so the GoI will let them continue.

Instead, the chances of getting 36 or 48 more Rafales would have been a lot better. More affordable and deliveries could have been expedited.

As M2000-9, the F4 Rafale for UAE will probably be the best of their class. Why not a more powerfull engine? Why not extra goodies? maybe some air bases accomodation? etc.... It add cost.
Never forget that the 12 last Rafale for Qatar were billed 1.1 billion....

MMRCA2 ? It's a cold case, for every competitors. The next move will be a 2nd 36 Rafale batch, followed in some years by a third one maybe smaller. No F15X, no F21, no SH18, no EF2000.

 

[Super Falcon]

Rafale is becoming a very succesful jet in fighter jet market

 

[Foinikas]

The 6th Rafale has been delivered to the HAF in France today by the way.

Παραδίδεται σήμερα το έκτο Rafale "413" στην Πολεμική Αεροπορία - Δούρειος Ίππος

Ολοκληρώνονται σήμερα οι παραδόσεις της πρώτης παρτίδος έξι μαχητικών αεροσκαφών Rafale στην Πολεμική Αεροπορία, βάσει των προνοιών

doureios.com

 

[Super Falcon]

Rafales are superior due to cutting edge tech they offer than any jet in oaf

 

[Super Falcon]

Rafales are far superior than our J 10 because rafales have prooven battle record

 

[Shah_Deu]

Rafales are far superior than our J 10 because rafales have prooven battle record

F-35's also dont have any proven battle record either, so the Mig21's of Injuns must be better by your logic.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Corruption claims threaten Emmanuel Macron’s fighter jet deal

Claims by defence consultant against Thales brings scrutiny to French arms deals with India

www.telegraph.co.uk

Some truly shocking claims to white wash payments to Indian middlemen under the umbrella of consultancy fees via companies in Africa...

 

[serenity]

Rafales are far superior than our J 10 because rafales have prooven battle record

Being able to fly around in Libya is not battle proven. A Mig-21 can do that as well.

The only truly battle proven 4th generations that can be called that to some degree is really the JF-17, Mirage, F-16, F-15, F-14, and F-18. And even then these are really against much weaker, smaller, very poor opponents with at least half generation older aircraft and weak to average air defences.

Even the Su-30MKI and Mig-29 and Mirage 2000 would be said as proven as useless if we take historic conflict examples since those three fighters in IAF was useless against PAF last time there was a combat involving them.

So basically for 4th generations.

Half proven = F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18, some Mirage, and JF-17
Not proven = EF typhoon, Rafale, J-10, J-11, J-15, J-16, Gripen, Tejas, Su-35
Proven useless supposedly (in limited specific situation combat) = Su-30MKI, Mig-29, Mirage 2000 of IAF

Basically this shows how shallow this whole "proven and unproven" nonsense is.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Being able to fly around in Libya is not battle proven. A Mig-21 can do that as well.

The only truly battle proven 4th generations that can be called that to some degree is really the JF-17, Mirage, F-16, F-15, F-14, and F-18. And even then these are really against much weaker, smaller, very poor opponents with at least half generation older aircraft and weak to average air defences.

Even the Su-30MKI and Mig-29 and Mirage 2000 would be said as proven as useless if we take historic conflict examples since those three fighters in IAF was useless against PAF last time there was a combat involving them.

So basically for 4th generations.

Half proven = F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18, some Mirage, and JF-17
Not proven = EF typhoon, Rafale, J-10, J-11, J-15, J-16, Gripen, Tejas, Su-35
Proven useless supposedly (in limited specific situation combat) = Su-30MKI, Mig-29, Mirage 2000 of IAF

Basically this shows how shallow this whole "proven and unproven" nonsense is.

The only noteworthy confirmed aerial kills of the past decade are a Su-22, a Mig-21, and two Su-24s. Let that sink.

 

[Super Falcon]

Being able to fly around in Libya is not battle proven. A Mig-21 can do that as well.

The only truly battle proven 4th generations that can be called that to some degree is really the JF-17, Mirage, F-16, F-15, F-14, and F-18. And even then these are really against much weaker, smaller, very poor opponents with at least half generation older aircraft and weak to average air defences.

Even the Su-30MKI and Mig-29 and Mirage 2000 would be said as proven as useless if we take historic conflict examples since those three fighters in IAF was useless against PAF last time there was a combat involving them.

So basically for 4th generations.

Half proven = F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18, some Mirage, and JF-17
Not proven = EF typhoon, Rafale, J-10, J-11, J-15, J-16, Gripen, Tejas, Su-35
Proven useless supposedly (in limited specific situation combat) = Su-30MKI, Mig-29, Mirage 2000 of IAF

Basically this shows how shallow this whole "proven and unproven" nonsense is.

The time will tell technologocaly rafale is superior to thunder

Remember thunder shoot smaller weaker mig things will be different against rafale

F-35's also dont have any proven battle record either, so the Mig21's of Injuns must be better by your logic.

I think you are quating me wrong every fighter has its class

 

[BON PLAN]

It's now official : Indonesia inked a deal for 42 Rafale.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1491665111676772354

Probably a first batch of 6 with 2021 funds, the next batch of 36 later.

 

[INS_Vikrant]

The 6th Rafale has been delivered to the HAF in France today by the way.

Παραδίδεται σήμερα το έκτο Rafale "413" στην Πολεμική Αεροπορία - Δούρειος Ίππος

Ολοκληρώνονται σήμερα οι παραδόσεις της πρώτης παρτίδος έξι μαχητικών αεροσκαφών Rafale στην Πολεμική Αεροπορία, βάσει των προνοιών

doureios.com

In future would really look forward to IAF and HAF Rafales participating in joint exercise

With last batch of Rafale jets arriving next week hopefully follow up orders will be placed soon

 

[BON PLAN]

Half proven = F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18, some Mirage, and JF-17
Not proven = EF typhoon, Rafale, J-10, J-11, J-15, J-16, Gripen, Tejas, Su-35
Proven useless supposedly (in limited specific situation combat) = Su-30MKI, Mig-29, Mirage 2000 of IAF

sorry, not really.

Totally proven in air air : F14, F15, F16
Half proven in air air : F18, Mig 29, Su27 (M2000 ? it has shoot the first F16 destroyed in air to air engagement).
Not proven in air air : the other.

Totally proven in air to ground : F15, F16, F18, Rafale, M2000
Half proven in air to ground : EF2000, mig and Su ?
Not proven in air to ground : all the other.

 

[BON PLAN]

Serbia is in talk to buy 6 Rafale...

La Serbie négocierait l'achat d'au moins 6 Rafale auprès de Dassault Aviation - Zone Militaire

En juillet 2020, le président Aleksandar Vučić, qui vient d'être réélu, avait plaidé pour un renforcement significatif des capacités militaires de son

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