Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[Windjammer]

100 Rafale awesome, congratulations perhaps you should learn Arabic and hop over to an Egyptian forum to plug more Rafales. More sure you don't give any for free this time.

Good bye...

Defense World

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Damn this is throwing even Walmart a challenge.....the best they can offer is buy one detergent and get second at half price.

 

[Foinikas]

Defense World

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Small correction,we are not getting any free stuff:

Before this, Indians use to boost that their SU-30 (which they lovingly called Asian Raptor) is an overkill of the PAF and it's meant for the Chinese Air Force....where as their MiG-29s are enough to take care of entire PAF.
And guess what....when the test came, no MiG-29 was visible and the so called Asian Raptor was re designated as the AMRAAM Dodger.

You know about a decade ago or so,before I became pro-Pakistan on the whole India vs Pakistan thing,
I had read on wikipedia about how the Mig-29 had locked on PAF F-16s. For some time that kind of remained in my head as if the Mig-29s had actually shot the F-16s down. But then when I read about it again I realized they had only gained a lock on them,supposedly from afar too,if I am not mistaken. They never fired and I thought that would be weird. Now that I checked the article again,that mention's been completely deleted,it's not there.

 

[Windjammer]

Small correction,we are not getting any free stuff:

View attachment 772672



You know about a decade ago or so,before I became pro-Pakistan on the whole India vs Pakistan thing,
I had read on wikipedia about how the Mig-29 had locked on PAF F-16s. For some time that kind of remained in my head as if the Mig-29s had actually shot the F-16s down. But then when I read about it again I realized they had only gained a lock on them,supposedly from afar too,if I am not mistaken. They never fired and I thought that would be weird. Now that I checked the article again,that mention's been completely deleted,it's not there.

The Indians even awarded that alleged pilot who later died in a crash.
You will find plenty of such gloating and self praise by Indians but you wouldn't find PAF boasting about when a pair of F-16s tailed 5 MiG-29s for 20 minutes who were completely unaware of the F-16s presence...that is until Indian GCI realised and warned the MiG pilots, who in turn jinxed so violently that they almost crashed into each other.....what is big deal about painting on an aircraft from own territory when no shooting is happening.....here's a USAF F-4 Phantom in the gunsight of a PAF Mirage...the feat was repeated with F-15 as well.

 

[SQ8]

Small correction,we are not getting any free stuff:

View attachment 772672



You know about a decade ago or so,before I became pro-Pakistan on the whole India vs Pakistan thing,
I had read on wikipedia about how the Mig-29 had locked on PAF F-16s. For some time that kind of remained in my head as if the Mig-29s had actually shot the F-16s down. But then when I read about it again I realized they had only gained a lock on them,supposedly from afar too,if I am not mistaken. They never fired and I thought that would be weird. Now that I checked the article again,that mention's been completely deleted,it's not there.

There is a lot of pilot factor as well involved - The PAF is also flying Dassault products and has used them very successfully. That also reflects on the attitude of the organization itself - the general(not universal) mentality of the human resource in how they approach their training , learning and application of skills along with general morale.

A much maligned video by Indians that talks about their first red flag does delve on that. They bought in su-30 MKIs thinking they would dominate especially in the WVR fights and they didn’t. Not because the MKI isn’t a wonderful machine but because the culture that pilots brought reflected one of internal “good vibes only” mentality and sycophancy throughout the leadership.

That doesn’t mean such careerists don’t exist in the USAF, ADA or PAF - but that the majority work on an ethos of organizational excellence (relative to their own sub-cultures, technology access,size and budget).

Bring that square to the Rafale - it is a very potent system that in the hands of well trained and led airforces can mow down most opposition in its way. However, lets say it is sold to a fictional country called Eshratia and even though the trainers from ADA come in to teach the Estatian AF on how to fly and fight with the Rafale - they find the Esratian pilots not of uniform skillset and their leadership mostly sticking to their own thoughts or nodding saying they’ve understood even if the ADA trainers suspect otherwise. In such a case, all of the ADA trainers knowledge on operating the Rafale along with knowledge on latest BVR combat tactics is likely to be absorbed by the most attentive and effective students but the others will follow the leadership trend of trying to get the badge. That leaves a force of Rafale’s essentially 20% fully capable of utilizing everything, 30% average with the rest not always sure how to use the jet best.
Sending those pilots in combat against a pilot flying a F-16 block-30 pilot who is from an airforce where the culture nurtures/forces at least 50% of the pilots to be fully capable of utilizing their jet means that likely the Rafale will fail.

I always make it a point to read the mishap updates in Air Forces Monthly because it provides a good window into pilot mentality and training. At the end, SPECTRA will automatically classify the bandits using ELINT and inputs from NTCR - it will start dRfM jamming against bandit(s) just as AIDEWS does on the F-16s but if the pilot flying it still manages to not read the cues correctly - they will become a fireball.

 

[Foinikas]

The Indians even awarded that alleged pilot who later died in a crash.
You will find plenty of such gloating and self praise by Indians but you wouldn't find PAF boasting about when a pair of F-16s tailed 5 MiG-29s for 20 minutes who were completely unaware of the F-16s presence...that is until Indian GCI realised and warned the MiG pilots, who in turn jinxed so violently that they almost crashed into each other.....what is big deal about painting on an aircraft from own territory when no shooting is happening.....here's a USAF F-4 Phantom in the gunsight of a PAF Mirage...the feat was repeated with F-15 as well.
View attachment 772678

I know Pakistani pilots are very professional. And from what I've read,many of the Israelis shot down in the Middle-East were actually by Pakistani pilots flying Arab aircraft.

The awarded Indian pilot,you mean the moustachio '70s **** actor guy,right?

owever, lets say it is sold to a fictional country called Eshratia and even though the trainers from ADA come in to teach the Estatian AF on how to fly and fight with the Rafale - they find the Esratian pilots not of uniform skillset and their leadership mostly sticking to their own thoughts or nodding saying they’ve understood even if the ADA trainers suspect otherwise. In such a case, all of the ADA trainers knowledge on operating the Rafale along with knowledge on latest BVR combat tactics is likely to be absorbed by the most attentive and effective students but the others will follow the leadership trend of trying to get the badge. That leaves a force of Rafale’s essentially 20% fully capable of utilizing everything, 30% average with the rest not always sure how to use the jet best.

Well yes. Kind of like tanks and Arabs let's say
That's why I feel that a masterpiece like the Rafale is wasted being sold to the Indians.

 

[Suriya]

Okay, India is going to buy 18 or 24 more Rafale jets to reach the number 54 or 60. But that's it and not single more beyond that. We have AMCA to invest in and IAF is also commited to AMCA.

Yes of course it is a black hole generator capable of destroying planets.Please take your garbage to an Indian forum. Thank you.

American dbc mem getting lot of applause here for anti-India remarks.
I'm sure Pakistanis remember Ayub khan's and Kissinger's quotes about American friendship, but reminding them is never a bad thing.

 

[BON PLAN]

It's an old saying, a plane is only good as it's pilot.
They did try to use their Mirages to launch Israeli Spice bombs against a seminary which wildly fell off target into some woodland.....next day when PAF responded, two of the Indian mirages which were in the arena reported Radar malfunctions and ran away from the battle.
Before this, Indians use to boost that their SU-30 (which they lovingly called Asian Raptor) is an overkill of the PAF and it's meant for the Chinese Air Force....where as their MiG-29s are enough to take care of entire PAF.
And guess what....when the test came, no MiG-29 was visible and the so called Asian Raptor was re designated as the AMRAAM Dodger.

Old gen Mirage 2000 were very effective during The Kargil event. Why do you imagine the newer "-5" be less effective ?

100 Rafale awesome, congratulations perhaps you should learn Arabic and hop over to an Egyptian forum to plug more Rafales. More sure you don't give any for free this time.

Good bye...

Defense World

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You are miss informed.
6 brand new Rafale, and 12 x 2nd hand for a total of 2.5 € billion (wih a weapon package). Do you really see Greece purchasing 6 plane for 2.5 € billions? Be serious. Use the white material between your two ears please.

 

[Windjammer]

Old gen Mirage 2000 were very effective during The Kargil event. Why do you imagine the newer "-5" be less effective ?

Yea very effective indeed.....bombing in own territory against well demarcated positions and without any air opposition whatsoever....even then with assistance from US and Israel.
Better come up with some worthy achievement Indian fanboy.

 

[drunken-monke]

Yea very effective indeed.....bombing in own territory against well demarcated positions and without any air opposition whatsoever....even then with assistance from US and Israel.
Better come up with some worthy achievement Indian fanboy.

And bringing the crap out of NLI infiltrators.. PAF refused to engage IAF.. What was the reason??

 

[Windjammer]

And bringing the crap out of NLI infiltrators.. PAF refused to engage IAF.. What was the reason??

Since you have a habit of running in circles....why don't you answer this....
Pakistan Army intruded into Kargil, slaughtered hundred of Indian soldiers.....what stopped IAF from carrying out strikes on targets on Pakistan side of the border.
Your IAF carried out missions within it's side of LOC....the only time it crossed inadvertently or deliberately...well you got your answer in the shapes of these two.

 

[VkdIndian]

PAF refused to engage IAF.. What was the reason??

Finest level of coordination and joint-manship between PA, PN and PAF. Don’t even talk about the BVR edge that IAF possessed at that time. Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail has written all about it in his blog. Much to the distaste of the fanboys.

 

[BON PLAN]

Yea very effective indeed.....bombing in own territory against well demarcated positions and without any air opposition whatsoever....even then with assistance from US and Israel.
Better come up with some worthy achievement Indian fanboy.

Whatever the situation, Kargil remains indian thanks to M2000, and despite pak opposition. That's all.

 

[Windjammer]

Whatever the situation, Kargil remains indian thanks to M2000, and despite pak opposition. That's all.

Yea Thanks to Mirages. LOL.

rediff.com: Pakistan occupying six Indian peaks, claims MP

 

[Suriya]

Whatever the situation, Kargil remains indian thanks to M2000, and despite pak opposition. That's all.

Yea Thanks to Mirages. LOL.

rediff.com: Pakistan occupying six Indian peaks, claims MP

LoL U think Pakistan's whole objective for Kargil operation where it lost so many soldiers was to capture six worthless peaks who are surrounded by dozen odd Indian held peaks?

 

[Windjammer]

LoL U think Pakistan's whole objective for Kargil operation where it lost so many soldiers was to capture six worthless peaks who are surrounded by dozen odd Indian held peaks?

Oh so you now admit that Pakistan does holds six peaks, better delete your comments before your cousins crusify you.
If the likes of US hadn't saved your bacon the Kargil coffin scandal inquiry would still be fresh in your minds.