Dassault deal far away, IAF begins fleet upgrade

[sancho]

can some one tell what is differnt between MKi & super sukoi MKI MLU and what are there respective costs and how much differnt oit is from specs of rafale and so on

Nobody can tell you that so far, since the upgrade is still not fixed yet. A lot of speculation going on in the media, only certain things seems to be upgraded cockpit, EWS, IRST, airframe strenghtening for Brahmos and RAM coating for a lower RCS.
AESA radar is likely, but not cleared yet (Zhuk AE, or BARS AESA upgrade, possibly based on FGFA's AESA), sometimes speculated on upgraded PESA first, with AESA in a 2nd upgrade phase.
Also not clear is the engine upgrade, Su 35 engine is technically possible, but with the additional AL 31 engine deal, it's more likely that the current engine will be upgraded.

The biggest difference for MKI will be the RCS reduction and the addition of Brahmos! The earlier will make it more leathal again, in times when our opponents got long range AWACS coverage. A reduction by 4 to 5 times is possible and by the fact that it don't carries any external fuel tanks, it's loaded RCS could be reduced by far. The second gives IAF finally the long range strike capability, that we badly need especially wrt targets in Tibet. India's cruise missile strike capability is very limited so far and if you want to stop a numerical superior opponent, you need to slow down his movements as far away from your borders as possible.
The Rafale offers many of these capabilities directly, low RCS, long range detection, deep strike capability, excellent weapon pack and will do many roles together with the MKI, but they are very complementing though. When the one prefers strikes from high altitude and at safer distance, the other prefers low level penetration. The one flys high and actively detects at long range, while the other prefer lower altitudes and passive long range detection. The MKI might take out the radars, while the Rafale takes the SAM's... ... ... could be a highly effective duo, perfectly balanced in A2A and A2G roles, that gives IAF several alternatives of weapons, or tactics!

 

[Hulk]

All these speculation threads will only stop when deal is signed. I will happen, you have to have patience with India. @sancho sudhrenge nahi log..

 

[Su-11]

I hope the next govt buries this stupid deal. Overpriced french shyt which wont be used by any spineless Indian govts anyway. The money can be better spent else where.

 

[dbc]

When the one prefers strikes from high altitude and at safer distance, the other prefers low level penetration. The one flys high and actively detects at long range, while the other prefer lower altitudes and passive long range detection. The MKI might take out the radars, while the Rafale takes the SAM's... ... ... could be a highly effective duo, perfectly balanced in A2A and A2G roles, that gives IAF several alternatives of weapons, or tactics!

Low altitude penetration into Tibet will likely be a one way trip for the pilot. Sancho you need to look beyond the brochure and take into account facts such as ....
"......Tibetan Plateau is sometimes called "the Roof of the World" the Chinese have long range radars on the roof of the world. With an average elevation of 4,500 ft the Chinese are looking down into India.

 

[帅的一匹]

Low altitude penetration into Tibet will likely be a one way trip for the pilot. Sancho you need to look beyond the brochure and take into account facts such as ....
"......Tibetan Plateau is sometimes called "the Roof of the World" the Chinese have long range radars on the roof of the world. With an average elevation of 4,500 ft the Chinese are looking down into India.

That's why we took Aksi Chin, we looked at you from high place.

 

[帅的一匹]

I hope the next govt buries this stupid deal. Overpriced french shyt which wont be used by any spineless Indian govts anyway. The money can be better spent else where.

You are right man, Inida shall concentrate its resource on indeginization programme.

 

[帅的一匹]

Why, what would be the point when the Super MKI is far better?

Super MKI is far superior than Rafale, India goverment shall go for another hundred MKI instead wasting money and resource on Rafale.

 

[sancho]

Low altitude penetration into Tibet will likely be a one way trip for the pilot. Sancho you need to look beyond the brochure and take into account facts such as ....
"......Tibetan Plateau is sometimes called "the Roof of the World" the Chinese have long range radars on the roof of the world. With an average elevation of 4,500 ft the Chinese are looking down into India.

It's about Rafales terrain hugging capabilities to remain undetected and Tibet is a bit bigger than the mountain areas at the borders.
What IAF has to target with Rafale and MKI, are the air and missile bases deeper within Tibet, that are out of the range of Indian ground missiles. That's where air launched Brahmos and hopefully Scalp will play important roles and until Nirbhay is fully developed and integrated.
Tezpur -> Gonggar where Chinese Flankers were seen is just slightly over 300Km away, so taking out their forwarded bases is not the issue even from within Indian airspace, but how to destroy the once in greater distances is the key!

 

[Taygibay]

Interesting, the Pakistani guy thinks Rafale is <i><b>shyt</b></i> and the Chinese one thinks it's useless?

If I was Indian, I'd take it as proof that they are more worried than they let on and induct it ASAP?
Usually when your competitors diss' your product, it's because they have no better way to win over it!

Just sayin' Tay.

 

[dbc]

It's about Rafales terrain hugging capabilities to remain undetected and Tibet is a bit bigger than the mountain areas at the borders.
What IAF has to target with Rafale and MKI, are the air and missile bases deeper within Tibet, that are out of the range of Indian ground missiles. That's where air launched Brahmos and hopefully Scalp will play important roles and until Nirbhay is fully developed and integrated.
Tezpur -> Gonggar where Chinese Flankers were seen is just slightly over 300Km away, so taking out their forwarded bases is not the issue even from within Indian airspace, but how to destroy the once in greater distances is the key!

The Chinese have long range radar at twice the elevation of Leh, this give Chinese forces the ability to continuously monitor every air base in North India. The Ganbala radar station located in Qinghai is the highest human operated military radar in the world.
1.Terrain hugging ingress is not a viable option against the Chinese.
2. India cannot sustain enough sorties to cause sufficient damage or successfully interdict.

The above is true regardless of which fighter the IAF acquires including the F-35(payload limitation). Assuming US VLO aircraft such as the B-2 and the F-22 will never see service in the IAF.

 

[dbc]

Interesting, the Pakistani guy thinks Rafale is <i><b>shyt</b></i> and the Chinese one thinks it's useless?

If I was Indian, I'd take it as proof that they are more worried than they let on and induct it ASAP?
Usually when your competitors diss' your product, it's because they have no better way to win over it!

Just sayin' Tay.

Pathetic ..

 

[帅的一匹]

MKI cause more threat than Rafale to China.

 

[帅的一匹]

As long as RAfale deal scraped, IAF looks more fragile.

 

[帅的一匹]

China had begun to mass producemJ10b at the year end. When Rafale is still a far away dream, J10b has come true.

 

[Chronos]

Interesting, the Pakistani guy thinks Rafale is <i><b>shyt</b></i> and the Chinese one thinks it's useless?

If I was Indian, I'd take it as proof that they are more worried than they let on and induct it ASAP?
Usually when your competitors diss' your product, it's because they have no better way to win over it!

Just sayin' Tay.

No, it's more like they don't even know what the hell they ae on about, but they see this is an indian thread so they decide to come here and bash anyway.