CV-18 Fujian - Type 003 Aircraft Carrier News & Discussions

[Deino]

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2025 is quite long wait, it will delay the naval fighter project further.

Again I don't know, why you constantly claim, the fifth generation fighter will be delayed especially how this should be related to a IMO very realistically estimation by @ChineseTiger1986 for a 2021 launch and service entry around 2025.

Given that the new fighter J-35 will be unveiled hopefully this year or maybe even only 2021, the an estimated flight testing of 5-6 years is not unrealistic and would fit to that date. As long as it is not ready yet, the additional J-15s will do their duty.

 

[kungfugymnast]

Again I don't know, why you constantly claim, the fifth generation fighter will be delayed especially how this should be related to a IMO very realistically estimation by @ChineseTiger1986 for a 2021 launch and service entry around 2025.

Given that the new fighter J-35 will be unveiled hopefully this year or maybe even only 2021, the an estimated flight testing of 5-6 years is not unrealistic and would fit to that date. As long as it is not ready yet, the additional J-15s will do their duty.

If catapult steam, military manufacturers could refer US or French fighters for guideline on the kinetic energy propulsion to send a loaded aircraft weight into the air. If EMALS, it is considered something totally new that even US has not placed 100% operational. Manufacturer will look at lift-drag ratio design that is best to determine when there's really a working EMALS that could really fit and powered by upcoming aircraft carrier.

If EMALS is confirmed powerful enough to easily send even max takeoff 80,000 fighter up into the air, then Shenyang will develop large fighter with focus more on higher payload, more internal fuel, speed and power. If the EMALS is weak, then they'll come up with lighter fighter with lift-drag suited for low speed stability and maneuverability like F/A-18E/F, Rafale, F35C sacrificing top speed slower like Mach 1.8+.

 

[Deino]

...

If EMALS is confirmed powerful enough to easily send even max takeoff 80,000 fighter up into the air, then Shenyang will develop large fighter with focus more on higher payload, more internal fuel, speed and power. If the EMALS is weak, then they'll come up with lighter fighter with lift-drag suited for low speed stability and maneuverability like F/A-18E/F, Rafale, F35C sacrificing top speed slower like Mach 1.8+.

No it will not, it will NOW develop a fighter that will be ready when the carrier is ready. It simply makes no sense to wait until the carrier is done, then test a catapult of whatever kind and then start development of a new fighter.

Like I said so often - and slowly I'm getting the feeling you are here to either constantly troll certain threads with stupid questions, or you are not able or willing to accept the facts: The developed, tested and decided long ago for a type of catapult and if the info is correct it will be an EMALS. They also decided on how the Type 003 carrier will look like, what kind of catapult it will have and what type of fighter it has to launch. ... Therefore they also decided some time ago that - most likely - SAC will finalise development of its FC-31 into an evolved design called J-35 and when nothing goes worse, both, carrier catapult and fighter will be ready for test by around the mid- to late 2020s. Period!

Therefore stop with these constant "they will test a catapult", "they will build a carrier" and "then they will build an enlarged WS-10-powered J-31" ... that's all BS. The PLAN has built and tested catapults, they decided for the Type 03 under construction and they also decided what type of fighter it will operate.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Got it, just need 2 working carriers as substitute while waiting for the proper nuclear powered carrier. However the J15 are lacking AESA radar for the 2 operational carriers limited to less fuel and payload to take off from less efficient ski ramp.



2025 is quite long wait, it will delay the naval fighter project further.

Those projects cannot rush, the Type 003 will likely start to equip with the J-15B.

Again I don't know, why you constantly claim, the fifth generation fighter will be delayed especially how this should be related to a IMO very realistically estimation by @ChineseTiger1986 for a 2021 launch and service entry around 2025.

Given that the new fighter J-35 will be unveiled hopefully this year or maybe even only 2021, the an estimated flight testing of 5-6 years is not unrealistic and would fit to that date. As long as it is not ready yet, the additional J-15s will do their duty.

The new J-15 with the WS-10H engine should belong to the Type 003.

Since the WS-10H is more suitable for the catapult launch, whereas the AL-31F is more suitable for the ski-jump launch.

 

[Deino]

...
Since the WS-10H is more suitable for the catapult launch, whereas the AL-31F is more suitable for the ski-jump launch.

But why? There is nothing like a certain engine is better or worse rated for a certain catapult or launch system.

 

[kungfugymnast]

No it will not, it will NOW develop a fighter that will be ready when the carrier is ready. It simply makes no sense to wait until the carrier is done, then test a catapult of whatever kind and then start development of a new fighter.

Like I said so often - and slowly I'm getting the feeling you are here to either constantly troll certain threads with stupid questions, or you are not able or willing to accept the facts: The developed, tested and decided long ago for a type of catapult and if the info is correct it will be an EMALS. They also decided on how the Type 003 carrier will look like, what kind of catapult it will have and what type of fighter it has to launch. ... Therefore they also decided some time ago that - most likely - SAC will finalise development of its FC-31 into an evolved design called J-35 and when nothing goes worse, both, carrier catapult and fighter will be ready for test by around the mid- to late 2020s. Period!

Therefore stop with these constant "they will test a catapult", "they will build a carrier" and "then they will build an enlarged WS-10-powered J-31" ... that's all BS. The PLAN has built and tested catapults, they decided for the Type 03 under construction and they also decided what type of fighter it will operate.

It is based on feasibility and practicality basis. On mock deck, you could get all source of power adequate to power EMALS. But on carrier, it depends on capacity from reactor to generate enough energy to power the EMALS on its own. Sudden power drop/loss would lead to launch failure end up crashing into sea. If all fighters grounded due to lacked of power to launch aircraft designed to take off with full power on EMALS during war will be disastrous. That's why future stealth fighter depends on how powerful the EMALS that will be fitted on carrier. If based on your suggestion, dafest solution is to build medium stealth fighter with lift-drag designed for low speed stability and maneuverability with low maximum speed having 1 main bay and won't have range like J-20

Those projects cannot rush, the Type 003 will likely start to equip with the J-15B.

The new J-15 with the WS-10H engine should belong to the Type 003.

Since the WS-10H is more suitable for the catapult launch, whereas the AL-31F is more suitable for the ski-jump launch.

Agree, only when the launch system is finalized on Type003, the J-15 will be fitted with AESA, more powerful WS10H and designated J15B.

But why? There is nothing like a certain engine is better or worse rated for a certain catapult or launch system.

Naval fighter is recommended to have the higher thrust the better for better chance of successful launch and less risk of stalling.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

But why? There is nothing like a certain engine is better or worse rated for a certain catapult or launch system.

The AL-31F has the greater acceleration explosiveness, whereas the WS-10H has slightly greater thrust and longer lifespan.

Both engine have its own advantages and shortcomings.

The J-15A with the AL-31F will be reserved for 16 & 17 only.

Agree, only when the launch system is finalized on Type003, the J-15 will be fitted with AESA, more powerful WS10H and designated J15B.

If the Type 003 is nuclear powered, then its nuclear reactor will definitely be derived from the CAP1400.

Not sure how its specs being compared to the A1B reactor for the CVN-78 class, but the next gen nuclear reactor being derived from the CAP1700 will likely be superior compared to the A1B reactor.

If the Type 004 really exists, then it will be a superior version of the Type 003, just like the Type 002 to the Type 001.

 

[waja2000]

It is based on feasibility and practicality basis. On mock deck, you could get all source of power adequate to power EMALS. But on carrier, it depends on capacity from reactor to generate enough energy to power the EMALS on its own. Sudden power drop/loss would lead to launch failure end up crashing into sea. If all fighters grounded due to lacked of power to launch aircraft designed to take off with full power on EMALS during war will be disastrous. That's why future stealth fighter depends on how powerful the EMALS that will be fitted on carrier. If based on your suggestion, dafest solution is to build medium stealth fighter with lift-drag designed for low speed stability and maneuverability with low maximum speed having 1 main bay and won't have range like J-20
Agree, only when the launch system is finalized on Type003, the J-15 will be fitted with AESA, more powerful WS10H and designated J15B.
Naval fighter is recommended to have the higher thrust the better for better chance of successful launch and less risk of stalling.

I think you may not understandng how EMALS works, it not in-directly use ship power, under EMALS ship power will charge "energy power storage" more simple understanding just like power bank or batteries, ship power will charge full "energy power storage" waiting EMALS to ready launch aircraft/fighter after aircraft/fighter take off, ship power re-change again in 45 second （US EMALS）to ready next launch.
EMALS design can support up to 40 tons aircraft so not worry at all. medium or heavy fighter will be fine, as long meet Take off/landing requrement will be fine.

 

[waja2000]

If the Type 003 is nuclear powered, then its nuclear reactor will definitely be derived from the CAP1400.
Not sure how its specs being compared to the A1B reactor for CVN-78 class, but the next gen nuclear reactor being derived from the CAP1700 will likely be superior compared to the A1B reactor.
If the Type 004 really exists, then it will be a superior version of the Type 003, just like the Type 002 to the Type 001.

China on construction to built experiment nuclear ship, launch in 2022,with install 2 x ACPR50S reactor civilian spec compat nuclear with 25MW electic each total 50MW. not sure future military spec ractor. so is possible China nuclear powered AC can use 4 x ACPR50S = 100MW, should be no issue for 8-90,000 tons Aircraft carriar. no sure china plan on 2/3/4 reactor in AC. or new reactor.

US AC Nimitz class 2 x A4W reactor with total electricity 100MW. USS Ford class 2x A1B reactor will be 125MW electricity in total.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

China on construction to built experiment nuclear ship, launch in 2022,with install 2 x ACPR50S reactor civilian spec compat nuclear with 25MW electic each total 50MW. not sure future military spec ractor. so is possible China nuclear powered AC can use 4 x ACPR50S = 100MW, should be no issue for 8-90,000 Aircraft carriar. no sure china plan on 2/3/4 reactor in AC. or new reactor.

US AC Nimitz class 2 x A4W reactor with total electricity 100MW. USS Ford class 2x A1B reactor will be 125MW electricity in total.

The military version might even have higher priority, therefore the kickstart of the development could even be earlier.

BTW, other than the CAP1400, China has no other alternative propulsion for a 80,000+ tons supercarrier.

 

[kungfugymnast]

The AL-31F has the greater acceleration explosiveness, whereas the WS-10H has slightly greater thrust and longer lifespan.

Both engine have its own advantages and shortcomings.

The J-15A with the AL-31F will be reserved for 16 & 17 only.



If the Type 003 is nuclear powered, then its nuclear reactor will definitely be derived from the CAP1400.

Not sure how its specs being compared to the A1B reactor for the CVN-78 class, but the next gen nuclear reactor being derived from the CAP1700 will likely be superior compared to the A1B reactor.

If the Type 004 really exists, then it will be a superior version of the Type 003, just like the Type 002 to the Type 001.

AL31F has greater acceleration than WS10H? Thought WS10H is superior than AL31F in everything?

"The J-15A with the AL-31F will be reserved for 16 & 17 only."
What does 16 & 17 mean?

Noted on the nuclear reactor, thanks for the info

I think you may not understandng how EMALS works, it not in-directly use ship power, under EMALS ship power will charge "energy power storage" more simple understanding just like power bank or batteries, ship power will charge full "energy power storage" waiting EMALS to ready launch aircraft/fighter after aircraft/fighter take off, ship power re-change again in 45 second （US EMALS）to ready next launch.
EMALS design can support up to 40 tons aircraft so not worry at all. medium or heavy fighter will be fine, as long meet Take off/landing requrement will be fine.

The energy power storage received electric supply from boiler dynamo powered by reactor? If the EMALS is confirmed capable of launching aircraft up to 40 tons, then they could proceed to develop navy fighter J35 without having to wait for Type003.

China on construction to built experiment nuclear ship, launch in 2022,with install 2 x ACPR50S reactor civilian spec compat nuclear with 25MW electic each total 50MW. not sure future military spec ractor. so is possible China nuclear powered AC can use 4 x ACPR50S = 100MW, should be no issue for 8-90,000 Aircraft carriar. no sure china plan on 2/3/4 reactor in AC. or new reactor.

US AC Nimitz class 2 x A4W reactor with total electricity 100MW. USS Ford class 2x A1B reactor will be 125MW electricity in total.

Good info, at the meantime PLAN carrier requirement is to provide support to entire South China Sea to entrance area of Pacific Ocean to cover Guam to eastern further preventing US fleet from getting near should conflict happens. Nuclear powered aircraft carrier with more powerful reactors requirements will come after that.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

AL31F has greater acceleration than WS10H? Thought WS10H is superior than AL31F in everything?

"The J-15A with the AL-31F will be reserved for 16 & 17 only."
What does 16 & 17 mean?

Noted on the nuclear reactor, thanks for the info

Since the AL-31F can reach its afterburner faster than the WS-10H, since the WS-10 family got a lot of reverse engineering from the CFM56 as China did obtain it during the 1980s from the US.

Just like its US counterparts, the WS-10 family usually got less dexterity compared to the AL-31 family which can reach the afterburner in the shortest amount of time.

The only advantages of the WS-10 family is having slightly higher afterburner thrust and longer lifespan.

 

[kungfugymnast]

Since the AL-31F can reach its afterburner faster than the WS-10H, since the WS-10 family got a lot of reverse engineering from the CFM56 as China did obtain it during the 1980s from the US.

Just like its US counterparts, the WS-10 family usually got less dexterity compared to the AL-31 family which can reach the afterburner in the shortest amount of time.

The only advantages of the WS-10 family is having slightly higher afterburner thrust and longer lifespan.

WS10H got tech from AL31F as well, they didn't add the quick afterburner for better reliability. Noted.

"The J-15A with the AL-31F will be reserved for 16 & 17 only."
>> I just figured out you're referring to type 001 & 002. The J15A will be upgraded to J15B when type 003 onwards entered service. Type 001 & 002 probably for future VSTOL & STOVL and helicopters operation assisting type 075 amphibious assault group.

 

[Deino]

WS10H got tech from AL31F as well, they didn't add the quick afterburner for better reliability. Noted.

"The J-15A with the AL-31F will be reserved for 16 & 17 only."
>> I just figured out you're referring to type 001 & 002. The J15A will be upgraded to J15B when type 003 onwards entered service. Type 001 & 002 probably for future VSTOL & STOVL and helicopters operation assisting type 075 amphibious assault group.

Dear @kungfugymnast ... please remember again to stick on topic!

You are again and again discussing in very different directions - first from J-15A to J-15B now the benefits of WS-10H against AL-31F - and that all in the carrier thread!

 

[aziqbal]

There is no way 003 is nuclear powered

where is the land based test facility ?

there is no magic jump to CVN

it’s a long hard haul

003 can’t be nuclear powered