Current Tensions in Xinjiang-China

[shravan]

Answer the simple qeustion i asked you......how many hindus are there in pakistan compared to muslims in india?

I think you should answer that.

 

[glomex]

Your a occupation army in kashmir just like the american in afganistan so its lawful and right for the freedom fighters to attck invading-occupation armies.

The Indian army came to Jammu and Kashmir not as army of invasion; rather they came on request of the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir.

On 22 October 1947 some parts of the State were invaded by unruly tribal warriors, killing and pillaging on their way to Srinagar, the Maharaja's forces were not able to defend the State territory.
The Maharaja had two choices: either let these tribesmen run over the country and destroy everything or seek help from India - he chose the later.

The Maharaja could not have got help from the government of Pakistan as they betrayed his trust; and despite the Standstill Agreement with the Maharaja, they stopped all the necessary supplies to the State and managed the tribal invasion to punish the Maharaja for not yielding to the demands of the Pakistani rulers who wanted State's accession to Pakistan.

The Maharaja requested help from India, and signed an accession treaty on 26th October 1947, which was 'provisionally' accepted by the government of India. In line with the request of the Maharaja the Indian forces landed in Srinagar on 27th October 1947. Their primary purpose was to save the State from the invaders; and protect 'life', 'liberty' and 'property'.

 

[glomex]

Answer the simple qeustion i asked you......how many hindus are there in pakistan compared to muslims in india?

The increasing Islamisation of Pakistan and antagonism against a majority Hindu. Pakistan has forced many Hindus to leave Hinduism and convert to Islam[citation needed]. Such Islamisation include the blasphemy laws, which make it dangerous for religious minorities to express themselves freely and engage freely in religious and cultural activities. The promulgation of Sharia, Quranic law has also increased the marginalization of Hindus and other minorities. Following the destruction in 1992 of the Babri Mosque in India, riots and persecution of Hindus in retaliation has only increased; Hindus in Pakistan are routinely affected by communal incidents in India and violent developments on the Kashmir conflict between the two nations. It remains the hope of many that a permanent peace between the two nations will go a long way in making life better for the roughly 3 million Hindus living in Pakistan. The 1998 census recorded 2,443,614 Hindus in Pakistan. Reports from Pakistan indicate that Hindu minorities under Taliban rule in Swat are being forced to wear Red headgear such as turbans to make it easier for the Islamic militants to target them for discrimination. In light of these deprivations, Pakistani Hindu minorities have started fleeing to India.[

 

[dabong1]

Do you have a link that gives the count of Muslims killed in Jammu and Kashmir ......

I you cant be bothered to check for facts and figures on the internet i am not going to waste my time for you.......go to the kashmir thread and you can have all the links you want.

Here is what your so called mujahidins did in Kashmir...

Genocide in Kashmir

1. 400,000 Kashmiri Pandits, constituting 99% of the total population of Hindus living in Muslim majority area of the Kashmir Valley, were forcibly pushed out of the Valley by Muslim terrorists, trained in Pakistan, since the end of 1989. They have been forced to live the life of exiles in their own country, outside their homeland, by unleashing a systematic campaign of terror, murder, loot and arson.


2. Genocide of Kashmiri Pandits has reached its climax with Muslim terrorism succeeding in 'CLEANSING' the valley of this ancient ethno-religious community.

3. Educational Institutions burnt, damaged forcefully occupied : 105

4. Religious & Cultural Institutions Destroyed/burnt, damaged : 103

5. Shops, Factories looted/burnt/occupied : 14,430

6. Agriculture dependent families deprived of their land and source of income : 20,000

7. Horticulture dependent families deprived of their resource : 12,500

8. Houses Burnt : more than 20,000

9. Houses looted : 95%

10. Torture killings of Kashmiri Pandits in the Valley : more than 1,100

Are you trying to compare the misrey of the hindu kashmiris to the muslims kashmiris?

 

[glomex]

Yes

Paste those links here....and please don't ask me to GOOGLE IT.........you made a claim so the onus of proving it lies on you......

 

[dabong1]

The increasing Islamisation of Pakistan and antagonism against a majority Hindu. Pakistan has forced many Hindus to leave Hinduism and convert to Islam[citation needed]. Such Islamisation include the blasphemy laws, which make it dangerous for religious minorities to express themselves freely and engage freely in religious and cultural activities. The promulgation of Sharia, Quranic law has also increased the marginalization of Hindus and other minorities. Following the destruction in 1992 of the Babri Mosque in India, riots and persecution of Hindus in retaliation has only increased; Hindus in Pakistan are routinely affected by communal incidents in India and violent developments on the Kashmir conflict between the two nations. It remains the hope of many that a permanent peace between the two nations will go a long way in making life better for the roughly 3 million Hindus living in Pakistan. The 1998 census recorded 2,443,614 Hindus in Pakistan. Reports from Pakistan indicate that Hindu minorities under Taliban rule in Swat are being forced to wear Red headgear such as turbans to make it easier for the Islamic militants to target them for discrimination. In light of these deprivations, Pakistani Hindu minorities have started fleeing to India.[

So thats why pakistan had a hindu chief justice Rana Bhagwandas.......what are these pakistanis doing they even have a hindu in the cricket team Danish Kaneria.

 

[glomex]

I you cant be bothered to check for facts and figures on the internet i am not going to waste my time for you.......go to the kashmir thread and you can have all the links you want.




Are you trying to compare the misrey of the hindu kashmiris to the muslims kashmiris?

You made a claim and you have to prove it...if you cant you lose the argument.......and you claim falls flat just like any other Pakistani claim.......if you know the location of links....then you are not wasting any time....just paste the link to that thread..

Yes if you want to talk about Kashmir..... Kashmir historically comprised of Hindus and Muslims.....why only talk about Muslims in Kashmir.....Hindus are also a part of Kashmir.....


You are claiming about Kashmir than why don't discuss Kashmir in totality...why leave Kashmir Hindus out of the discussion....

 

[glomex]

So thats why pakistan had a hindu chief justice Rana Bhagwandas.......what are these pakistanis doing they even have a hindu in the cricket team Danish Kaneria.

Just open this link and you will know the status onf Hindus in Pakistan.......

hindus in Pakistan - Google Search

 

[dabong1]

Paste those links here....and please don't ask me to GOOGLE IT.........you made a claim so the onus of proving it lies on you......

Go the kashmir thread.......all the links you want and more.

 

[dabong1]

You made a claim and you have to prove it...if you cant you lose the argument.......and you claim falls flat just like any other Pakistani claim.......if you know the location of links....then you are not wasting any time....just paste the link to that thread..

Yes if you want to talk about Kashmir..... Kashmir historically comprised of Hindus and Muslims.....why only talk about Muslims in Kashmir.....Hindus are also a part of Kashmir.....


You are claiming about Kashmir than why don't discuss Kashmir in totality...why leave Kashmir Hindus out of the discussion....

As i said before lets go to the kashmir thread and debate it all you want.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...0220-future-kashmir-7-possible-solutions.html

Read the post from page 1 all the way through and then get back to me.

 

[Speeder]

Urumqi: criticism and credit for the Chinese police
( By Peter Foster, DT reporter, Beijing)

For the first time since Sunday’s violence a sense of normality is returning to the streets here.

I went out this morning at 8am immediately after curfew was lifted and things were definitely feeling more relaxed – many more cars on the roads, people doing their tai-ji in the parks, women returning from the vegetable markets laden with fresh produce, even a few dog-walkers.

There is still a very visible police presence - helicopters circling overhead and massive convoys of armoured personnel carriers, water canons and trucks carrying paramilitary police winding slowly through the city as a constant reminder that the forces of law and order are ready to act at a moment’s notice.

A note on the performance of the Chinese police during this crisis: from what I’ve seen they have been highly disciplined and professional under extremely challenging circumstances and deserve real praise for this.

On the one hand, it could be argued that the police failed in the first instance. Certainly that is the view of many Han people we’ve spoken too who are deeply angry that Sunday’s killing was allowed to take place at all.

It seems that the police were taken completely by surprise. Having broken up the original demonstration around the People’s Square and the South Gate on Sunday night between 6pm and 8pm, they failed to anticipate the extreme violence that was unfolded along the side-streets after about 10.30pm.

Perhaps this was because Urumqi, unlike Kashgar, is generally felt to be a stable - I hesitate to use the ‘H’ word (harmonious) - city where relations between Uighur and Han are nothing like as tense as in other parts of Xinjiang.

Then on Tuesday, the police appeared to get caught out a second time when, having focussed on locking down the Uighur areas, they seemed unprepared for the huge number of Han who took to the streets with their clubs and other weapons to show their anger over what they say was effectively an anti-Han pogrom carried out by thuggish Uighur elements on Sunday night.

These are fair criticisms, but equally the Chinese police and paramilitaries must be given huge credit for handling the situations that did arise.

On Tuesday they walked a fine line between confronting the Han protesters - keeping them separate from the Uighur community at a time when there was a real sense of blood lust in the air - and allowing them they chance to vent their legitimate anger and frustration.

In the event, the Han crowds on Tuesday effectively were allowed to go round and round in circles, exhausting themselves in the hot sun while never actually being allowed to reach the objects of their anger. To my mind, this was very smart policing.

Then on Wednesday, after an overwhelming show of force, the police made sure that the Han protestors largely stayed off the streets.

Similarly on Tuesday when a crowd of Uighur women and children of the Sai Ma Chang (Racetrack) district led a protest against the arrest of their men, the police contained the protest - showing force, but judiciously withdrawing a few hundred metres just at the moment when it looked as if things might get nasty.

I don’t claim to be an expert in riot control, but I have reported on mass protests in many different cities around the world - in the UK (football riots in London), in Africa (Harare and Lagos), in Pakistan (Lahore, Karachi, Peshawar) and in several cities in India - and I’m happy to say that China’s police have showed far greater professionalism, discipline and restraint than I’ve observed in many of those places.

Riots are feverish and unpredictable things and it only takes one nervous recruit to lash out (and if you look behind the visors, many of the Chinese police are pretty young) and suddenly a controlled situation can turn very nasty indeed.

All credit to the Chinese foot-soldiers, therefore, who have shown great professionalism and must be applauded for preventing any major further bloodshed after Sunday night.

They are neatly turned out, quiet and orderly when off-duty - for example, they don’t leave a trail of litter after chow-time like India’s police always did. These are small things but they do matter, since they set the tone.

If there is any criticism to be made, as outlined in the two points above, it should be directed at the commanders and officials who failed to anticipate events.

The next test for the police is how they handle the cases of the 1,400 arrested people, mostly Uighurs. The innocent must be returned unharmed to their families, while the guilty must be punished. Both sides, Uighur and Han, need to be satisfied by this process. It won’t be easy.

On that note, I shall shortly be departing for London on a summer break, but my colleague Malcolm Moore will be keeping you up date on China news with tweets and blogs from Shanghai and beyond.

For now, it’s ‘zaijian’ from me.



Chinese translation:

英国每日电讯报记者Peter Foster 2009年7月9日的博文：《给中国警员的批评和赞许》

乌鲁木齐 – 自星期日首次发生暴力事件以来，正常生活的感觉第一次回到了这里的街道上。



今天早上 8 点钟宵禁一结束，我就出门了。局势毫无疑问地感觉轻松多了—在路面行驶的汽车多了，有人在公园里打着太极拳，妇女们从菜市场带着新鲜的农产品归来。我甚至还看到了一些遛狗的人。



警方的存在仍然非常醒目—直升飞机在头顶盘旋，长长的装甲运兵车队，高压水枪和运载着准军事警察（指武警）的卡车在城市里缓缓穿行。这些景象不断提醒着你，维持法律和秩序的力量正随时准备行动。



这里对中国警察在此次危机中的表现说一句：依我所见，他们在极困难的形势下表现了很高的纪律性和专业性，为此应该实实在在地赞扬他们一番。



而另一方面，可以说，警方在第一时间是失败了。这无疑是我们与之交谈过的许多汉族人的看法。他们对周日的杀戮未能被阻止感到深深的愤怒。



警方似乎完全措手不及。他们驱散了周日晚6-8点间发生在人民广场和南门附近的第一次示威，却没能预见到10点半以后在小巷里的极端暴力。



这可能是因为，乌鲁木齐不像喀什那样，是个总体上感觉稳定（我不太愿意使用“和谐”这个词）的城市，这里的维汉关系与新疆的其他地方不同。



而到了星期二，警方似乎又一次没有就位。那时，警察们还一直将注意力放在确保维族聚居区的稳定上。此时，大批汉人手持棍棒和其他武器走上街头，对被他们称为嗜血的维族分子周日对他们的屠杀表示义愤，这似乎让警察手足无措。



这些都是合理的批评。但中国警方和武警对后来发生的事态的处理，也值得大大表扬。



周二，警察们如履薄冰。他们既要直面汉族示威者，要在空气中弥漫着真正的血腥味时把他们与维族聚居区隔离开，又要让他们有机会发泄自己合理的愤怒和挫败感。



在事件过程中，警方默许一群群的汉族人绕着大圈子来回走动，让他们在热辣辣的太阳下面消耗气力，但从未允许他们接触到那愤怒的对象。在我看来，这是非常聪明的警戒手段。



后来，星期三，通过毫不掩饰地展示警力，他们确保了抗议的汉人基本上远离街道。



此前周二的情况也是如此。当一群赛马场区的维族妇女和儿童领头开始抗议抓捕自己家中的男人后，警察制止了这次抗议。他们展示了警力，但就在事态可能即将变糟的一刹那，他们明智地后退了几百米。



我不想自诩为防暴问题专家。但我曾在世界许多地方报道过群体抗议事件—如英国（伦敦的足球流氓骚乱）、非洲（哈拉雷和拉各斯）、巴基斯坦（拉合尔、卡拉奇和白沙瓦），以及印度的几个城市。我可以说，中国的警方展示了远远高于以上许多地方同行的专业素养、纪律和克制力。



骚乱是狂热和不可控制的事情。只要警队中有一个新兵不慎大打出手，就能让已得到控制的局势变得不可收拾。而透过盔甲，你可以看到中国警队中的许多人都很年轻。



因此，要无保留地称赞这些展示了极高专业素质的中国警察。应当为他们在周日晚间的暴力发生之后阻止了进一步流血而鼓掌。



他们训练有素，在下岗时则安静有序。比方说，他们不像印度警察那样总是在饭后拖着一条丢弃杂物的尾巴。这些都是小事，但并非毫无影响，因为它们会左右警方给人的印象。



如果要批评什么的话，正如前面提到的那样，应该批评那些未能预见到事态发展的指挥员和警官。



警方的下一个考验在于如何处置1400多名被捕者，其中大多数是维族人。无辜者应当不受伤害地送回家中，而罪犯则必须得到惩罚。这个过程必须让维汉双方都得到满意的说法，而这并非易事。



说到这里，我很快要去伦敦休一个夏季假期。我的同事Malcolm Moore将继续不断地从上海和其他地方通过Twitter和博客向你们通报中国新闻。

(source: Daily Telegraph)

 

[glomex]

Go the kashmir thread.......all the links you want and more.

Those threads must be claims made by some one like you.......I want the news links pasted here...if you can't accept that you can't.....and accept your claims are just claims without proof....

 

[oct605032048]

Rebiya's fake evidence only fools herself
(chinadaily.com.cn)
Updated: 2009-07-09 16:35
Comments(35) PrintMail

Rebiya's fake evidence only fools herself

Rebiya Kadeer, head of the separatist World Uygur Congress, displays a picture which she describes as "Chinese police crack down peaceful demonstrators in Urumqi, capital of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region" when interviewed by Qatar's Al-Jazeera Television. [Agencies]

However, the picture Rebiya Kadeer displayed is actually a news photo taken last month in Hubei province.

Rebiya's fake evidence only fools herself
Local residents confront armed policemen in the street outside Yonglong Hotel of Shishou City, Central China's Hubei Province, June 21, 2009. The death of a chef called Tu Yuangao sparked three days of civil unrest in Shishou city. Tu died after falling from a high building and the government said he committed suicide after investigation. [nfdaily.cn]

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20090709/0013729e4ad90bc040673c.jpg

 

[dabong1]

The Indian army came to Jammu and Kashmir not as army of invasion; rather they came on request of the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir.

And the people of kashmir requested the pak army come in stop the rape and kiling of muslim by the indian army.

On 22 October 1947 some parts of the State were invaded by unruly tribal warriors, killing and pillaging on their way to Srinagar, the Maharaja's forces were not able to defend the State territory.
The Maharaja had two choices: either let these tribesmen run over the country and destroy everything or seek help from India - he chose the later.

Thats indian distorted history......you came first into kashmir thinking nobody would find out but the kashmir found out and asked for help from pakistan.

The Maharaja could not have got help from the government of Pakistan as they betrayed his trust; and despite the Standstill Agreement with the Maharaja, they stopped all the necessary supplies to the State and managed the tribal invasion to punish the Maharaja for not yielding to the demands of the Pakistani rulers who wanted State's accession to Pakistan.

The Maharaja requested help from India, and signed an accession treaty on 26th October 1947, which was 'provisionally' accepted by the government of India. In line with the request of the Maharaja the Indian forces landed in Srinagar on 27th October 1947. Their primary purpose was to save the State from the invaders; and protect 'life', 'liberty' and 'property'.

The right of the people to choose what they want is more important then some maharaja getting his dictatorial ways......you do belive in democracy dont you?

 

[dabong1]

Those threads must be claims made by some one like you.......I want the news links pasted here...if you can't accept that you can't.....and accept your claims are just claims without proof....

What happened..? you went to the post and all the links are there but you dont want to accept it