Comparison of PAF F-7s and IAF MiG-21s

[Fishbed]

How do PAF F-7s compare with their equivalents (Mig-21s) in the IAF?

Both have originated from the same basic design and both are in service with Air Forces of respective nations in large numbers. In 2002 Pakistan took delivery of a new batch of F-7s, how do they compare with the newly upgraded Mig-21 "Bisons" of the IAF?

 

[Owais]

IAF Mig21 Bison have BVR capablity where as F-7s have not.

 

[sultan0000]

well mig 21 are upgraded for longer lifespan,what about f7

 

[Fishbed]

IAF Mig21 Bison have BVR capablity where as F-7s have not.

What about the recent versions of F-7s delivered to Pakistan in 2002? Do they have some sort of limited BVR capability like Mirage III (Rose upgraded)?

How does its Italian Grifo-7PG PD radar compare with the Phazotron NIIR's Kopyo multimode radar of the Mig-21?

 

[pg7]

Pakistan F-7P have also been fitted with griffo-7 radars with search range of 55km and track range of 39.9Km. So they also have limited BVR capability. Regarding F-7PG, they have improved engine performance, high low level manavourability, HMS, and overall 45% more capable than F-7p. Indian migs are comparatively slightly better than F-7P but inferior to F-7PG in all respects except radar performance

 

[Fishbed]

Here are side views of these two similar aircraft aircraft. The Mig -21 "Bison" appears to be more bulkier then the F-7.

 

[Fishbed]

Pakistan F-7P have also been fitted with griffo-7 radars with search range of 55km and track range of 39.9Km. So they also have limited BVR capability.

They maybe able to identify targets at these ranges but what weapons can they use to engage targets at these ranges? Are they equipped with any BVR missiles? If not then they cannot be said to have limited BVR capability.

Does anyone know why the nose cone for the F-7 is so much smaller as compared with the Indian Mig-21s? I read somewhere that earlier model Mig-21s had smaller nose cones and later when a larger radar was required to be installed the size of the nose cone was increased. If so how is the PAF F-7 able to accommodate the "Grifo-7PG PD radar" in such a small nose cone?

 

[joey]

The mig 21 is one of the best cold war designs to be built, a lot of fighters are ditrect inspirations from the mig 21.

Having said all, If someone asks me to fly it I'll happily choose Alladins flying carpet before it.

 

[Keysersoze]

There are differences in the designs apart from fuselage size. The F-7pg has a different wing design

Improvements on the J-7E mainly focused on aerodynamic performance and avionics. The original delta wing plan-form was with a new “double-delta” design similar to that of the Russian Su-15 and Swedish Saab J-35 Draken. The new wings retain the existing leading-edge sweep angle of 57° inboard but have reduced sweep angle of 42° on the outboard wing, which also has a leading-edge flap fitted. This design offered an excellent solution to the inherent low aspect ratio problem of a slender delta. The slighting larger wingspan and 8.17% more wing area also gave an increased internal fuel capacity (from 2,080kg to 4,165kg) and much enhanced manoeuvrability.


F-7PG

The F-7MG fighter is serving with the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) as the F-7PG. The PG variant is generally same as the MG variant but its avionic configuration has been tailored to meet the PAF requirements. As the Marconi Super Skyranger radar did not meet the PAF requirements, the F-7PG is fitted with an I-band Italian FIAR Grifo-7 pulse-Doppler fire-control radar (37km range), which was optimised to fire the U.S.-made AIM-9L all-aspect short-range AAM, making a lethal combination in air-to-air combat.

The PAK pilots first test flew the F-7MG fighter at Chengdu’s test site in 1997. Following the flight evaluations, the PAF ordered 46 F-7PGs and nine FT-7PG. The PAF was so impressed with the aircraft’s performance that it ordered an additional 11 F-7PGs subsequently.

http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/j7e.asp

 

[Interceptor]

Pakistan F-7P have also been fitted with griffo-7 radars with search range of 55km and track range of 39.9Km. So they also have limited BVR capability. Regarding F-7PG, they have improved engine performance, high low level manavourability, HMS, and overall 45% more capable than F-7p. Indian migs are comparatively slightly better than F-7P but inferior to F-7PG in all respects except radar performance

The F-7PG have also a added feature of HUD Head-Up Display.

 

[Fishbed]

The slighting larger wingspan and 8.17% more wing area also gave an increased internal fuel capacity (from 2,080kg to 4,165kg)

How is it possible that a minuscule increase in wing area of 8.17% can lead to more that doubling of the internal fuel capacity of the aircraft? The wings only store only a part of fuel for the aircraft so even by doubling the size of the wings you would not get 2x the internal fuel capacity.

I think you have made an error copying from somewhere....

What are the types of AAM missiles carried by the F-7 besides short range IR homing missiles?

Upgraded IAF Mig-21 Bisons can carry long range AA-12 'Adder' which would give them a huge advantage against PAF F-7s without BVR capability.

 

[Keysersoze]

How is it possible that a minuscule increase in wing area of 8.17% can lead to more that doubling of the internal fuel capacity of the aircraft? The wings only store only a part of fuel for the aircraft so even by doubling the size of the wings you would not get 2x the internal fuel capacity.

I think you have made an error copying from somewhere....

What are the types of AAM missiles carried by the F-7 besides short range IR homing missiles?

Upgraded IAF Mig-21 Bisons can carry long range AA-12 'Adder' which would give them a huge advantage against PAF F-7s without BVR capability.

I have checked with a knowledgeable guy in regards to the fuel issue. apparently the previous models of F-7 did not have wing fuel tanks at all. I am unsure if the figure includes drop tanks or not.

The F-7's that are not going to be retired will have the Grifo radar which give them BVR. The only question is which missile is going to be used with it. I understand A missile from Denel was under consideration a while back.

 

[mirage_lover]

Couldn't we just throw SD-10 on the F7PG? Or does the Italian Radar restrict use of Chinese equipment?

 

[Fishbed]

Couldn't we just throw SD-10 on the F7PG? Or does the Italian Radar restrict use of Chinese equipment?

I think if no major modifications were required to the F-7pg to use the SD-10 then the PAF would have done so long ago. Same goes for the F-16 A/B.

 

[EagleEyes]

Fishbed,

What makes you think good amount of SD-10 is in Pakistan? First order for 500 or so have yet been place.