'CIA doctor' accused of treason

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Has ISI chief Pasha turned himself in and surrendered to the US courts since he is accused in a wrongful death case in New York?

Sure, as soon as the CIA Chiefs in charge of the US drone program surrender to Pakistani courts hearing cases against the murders of innocents in US controlled drone strikes.

 

[Awesome]

Has ISI chief Pasha turned himself in and surrendered to the US courts since he is accused in a wrongful death case in New York?

He has at least denied that charge, Leon Panetta hasn't.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Interesting. Do you think that the doctor will be killed nonetheless?

By the government? No.

But public US support for the Doctor and demands for his release will make it almost impossible for the GoP to release him, given the current hostile US-Pak relationship and anti-US sentiment - especially after the Raymond Davis issue.

The US chose to use its influence and coercion to free a murderer and accept the consequences, and also reduce a lot of domestic wiggle room the GoP had - that may now result in an innocent man paying the price for Davis's crimes.

 

[karan.1970]

You have to look at the repercussions of his act as well, and not only the act itself. The point that he sold state secrets is not the point, rather the point at hand is for whom was he doing it for?

so hypothetically, if you (a Pakistani citizen) go to the CIA website and share a lead about a possible terrorist attack , then you become liable for treason??

The problem is that its not clear what is he being tried for

1. Helping CIA
2. Helping CIA kill Osama
3. Helping CIA kill Osama in Pakistan
4. Helping CIA kill Osama in Pakistan by endangering Pakistani kids
5. Helping CIA kill Osama in Pakistan by leaking a state secret of Osama's location in a Pakistani safe house

All 5 actions may result in a different section in Pakistani criminal courts, and in my view, only item 5 carries an angle of treason

---------- Post added at 08:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 PM ----------

Sure, as soon as the CIA Chiefs in charge of the US drone program surrender to Pakistani courts hearing cases against the murders of innocents in US controlled drone strikes.

Exactly my point.. Expectations of people turning themselves in to foreign powers on mere accusations is really stupid..

---------- Post added at 08:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 PM ----------

He has at least denied that charge, Leon Panetta hasn't.

Pasha has been charged in the court.. Panetta hasnt been..

 

[Jango]

The one who thanked you and many like you and have already passed the judgement that he is a traitor in all the senses this what newdelhinsa saying not to do. Defending someone and announcing the verdict are two different things. The first is good for discussion forum the later is futile here. If many like you have already passed the judgement then there is no point for you to be animated.

And I think i have the right to believe , with all the information available to me, that he is a traitor to the state, in that he was working with a foreign intelligence agency.

But , whether the CIA approached him by a third party, and he got fooled, that could be the hurdle then, and he could be pardoned in that case, but if the CIA told him about their own self and tellling him to make a fake drive, that does warrant a penalty. I am sure though, that he would not have known that the CIA would have conducted an op or OBL was living there.

 

[newdelhinsa]

A doctor wouldn't know the supplied vaccination is fake or original. If the agency did supplied the fake vaccination then it was criminally inhuman, a subject to a criminal trail.

---------- Post added at 08:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 PM ----------

And I think i have the right to believe , with all the information available to me, that he is a traitor to the state, in that he was working with a foreign intelligence agency.

But , whether the CIA approached him by a third party, and he got fooled, that could be the hurdle then, and he could be pardoned in that case, but if the CIA told him about their own self and tellling him to make a fake drive, that does warrant a penalty. I am sure though, that he would not have known that the CIA would have conducted an op or OBL was living there.

So you are saying you feed on information available to you by media sources? Good to know.

 

[Jango]

so hypothetically, if you (a Pakistani citizen) go to the CIA website and share a lead about a possible terrorist attack , then you become liable for treason??

The problem is that its not clear what is he being tried for

1. Helping CIA
2. Helping CIA kill Osama
3. Helping CIA kill Osama in Pakistan
4. Helping CIA kill Osama in Pakistan by endangering Pakistani kids
5. Helping CIA kill Osama in Pakistan by leaking a state secret of Osama's location in a Pakistani safe house

All 5 actions may result in a different section in Pakistani criminal courts, and in my view, only item 5 carries an angle of treason

I could not get the bolded part. If I am a Pakistani living in US , yes i would tell that. I don't see the relation here in the two cases though. I am telling the CIA about an attack on their own country. Afridi is not the same.

And once the phrase, Helping CIA comes in, yes, he is liable for treason, for cooperating with a foreign agency without the consent or knowledge of his own state. He did do that, did he not? unless he did not know and was approached by a third party.

---------- Post added at 07:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 PM ----------

A doctor wouldn't know the supplied vaccination is fake or original. If the agency did supplied the fake vaccination then it was criminally inhuman, a subject to a criminal trail.

---------- Post added at 08:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 PM ----------



So you are saying you feed on information available to you by media sources? Good to know.

Do you know the intricacies of this case then?

You lot are the same people who tend to believe that the Helos from the OBL raid took off from Tarbela Air base.( so, you believe the media as well huh?). Dont you believe the media?

 

[iPhone]

would Indian gov't be okay with it's citizens contacting CIA, without consulting any Indian agencies first, on any terror leads? would indian gov't reward that indian?

I know what would the american gov't do if any american contacted the KGB or even M16 without reaching the FBI or CIA first.

 

[Solomon2]

So Americans are 'citizens' in that they can go out and kill people like OJ Simpson or convicted child rapists released on parole? It would all be for the 'greater good', no?

Treason is a political crime committed against a state or government to which the person charged with treason owes a duty of allegiance. Should the organs (as Solzhenitsyn termed them) of the State violate the compact between State and citizen and no process of appeal is available, what remaining duty does the citizen have to the organs? Only loyalty to the people of the State remains - working outside the organs.

Very few Americans believe that the situation experienced by the Founding Fathers applies to them: we have representative government and a functioning justice system. In the examples you mention, in the criminal trial the jury didn't convict OJ (although today it might have because DNA testing is more widely accepted) but in the civil suit he was convicted and sentenced to pay millions in damages. A sex offender is out on parole - what is wrong with that, the system offers mercy as well as dealing justice.

 

[fd24]

Interesting. Do you think that the doctor will be killed nonetheless?

He will probably hang himself if he saw you first.

 

[karan.1970]

I could not get the bolded part. If I am a Pakistani living in US , yes i would tell that. I don't see the relation here in the two cases though. I am telling the CIA about an attack on their own country. Afridi is not the same.
And once the phrase, Helping CIA comes in, yes, he is liable for treason, for cooperating with a foreign agency without the consent or knowledge of his own state. He did do that, did he not? unless he did not know and was approached by a third party.[COLO

I mean a pakistani in pakistan.. Isnt sharing a lead about a terror attack not too different from sharing information about the whereabouts of the biggest terrorist in the world..and if you share it with CIA, you become liable for treason because its without knowledge of ISI??

---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 PM ----------

would Indian gov't be okay with it's citizens contacting CIA, without consulting any Indian agencies first, on any terror leads? would indian gov't reward that indian?

I know what would the american gov't do if any american contacted the KGB or even M16 without reaching the FBI or CIA first.

It wouldnt be a charge of treason for sure..

 

[Doctor09]

What makes you think I would spy against the United States for anyone? I am a full, law abiding citizen. I do not want to turn out like Samir Khan or Faisal Shahzad, disgracing Pakistanis or Pakistan in a country that is talking about it (Pakistan) a lot these days (& not in a good way).

you should be aware of him ..... it smells fishy ...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The blame goes to GoP and GHQ who should have defined the lines of do's and don'ts for Pakistani people. T

haha what planet are you on buddy?
No no no and No.
You just cant work secretly for anyone else even for a very friendly foreign government without the knowledge of your government. It doesn’t have to be stated to you it’s a bloody common sense that has been lost since the launch of Fox News and its pseudo imitating News channels across the world that has given us the stories of protecting freedom and going after the WMDs. Let me give an Indian example to make it easier and digestible for you.
You will NOT work for KGB and pretend to be doing something that you are not and that too where when asked by your fellow citizens or movement agencies you have to cover it up or lie. If there is even a sightless suggestion that whatever you are being asked to do that shouldn’t come to the knowledge of CID or RAW or what ever then boy you are betraying the country and you deserve to be made an example

This doctor agreed to work for a secret agency and not under the consent of the state he is the citizen of but secretly and he very well knew that he was pretending to be doing something (vaccination) while he wasn’t and he betrayed his profession and his country.

journalists, doctors and aid workers remain neutral in a conflict and don’t become a party specially to an undercover agency belonging to anther country because that brings their profession under controversy and makes the work of their colleagues more dangerous.

By the looks of it. I don’t think he was that gullible that he couldn’t understand what he was doing even after the Raymond Davis affair who didn’t even have any immunity and was on false papers.

Agreed that Pakistanis couldn’t catch OBL on their own like they did when they caught Al Libbi an, KSM and Mullah Bradar, had the Americans been more open and shared their part of information in return then this doctor wouldn’t have had to make his profession questionable. This was not the only place OBL was living there were other places as well and it was also raided in the past when he was elsewhere. I must say he became too smug or fearless that he decided to go back to the place that was raided in the past but his days were numbered and he paid the ultimate price. Yes he don’t mourn his death but the method of Americans has meant that we had to face the brunt of the fallout resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Pakistanis.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I mean a pakistani in pakistan.. Isnt sharing a lead about a terror attack not too different from sharing information about the whereabouts of the biggest terrorist in the world..and if you share it with CIA, you become liable for treason because its without knowledge of ISI??

yes sir,

replace ISI with RAW, and you might understand.
you cant work for someone undercover without the prior knowledge of your own government.

 

[khanz4996]

THE PUNISHMENT FOR TREASON IS HANGING TILL DEATH