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Churches burnt in India

On church Burnings. Here is an article from last year in the US.
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ATLANTA – Three torched churches were discovered in Alabama Tuesday - the latest in a string of suspected arsons that damaged five churches in Bibb County.

Investigators have not discovered any apparent motives. Four of the five churches in Bibb County - three of which burned to the ground - were white Baptist congregations. The other was black.

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Nationally, such patterns are not unusual. Most arson targets are white congregations, whereas mosques and synagogues get hit in much smaller numbers.

In a country with more than 350,000 churches, motives are as varied as the denominations they target, experts say. According to the Insurance Information Institute, the top reasons for torching a church include the coverup of a burglary, vandalism, and revenge. Racism, insurance fraud, and thrill-seeking are less common.

In fact, church burnings are common. The nation sees 15 to 20 church arsons a month, scattered from Florida to California. [ Editor's note: The original version misstated the frequency of church burnings in the US.]

Nearly 1,000 churches burned between 1996 and 2000 nationwide, according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). Authorities nabbed about 100 suspects, a pace that has only decreased slightly.

Since the summer of 1996, when a spate of racially motivated Alabama church fires drew national attention, investigators are not much closer to knowing what fuels the church arsonist. Confessions range from the hateful to the mundane: In Suffolk County, Va., an 18-year-old pleaded guilty to torching St. Mary's Catholic Church in October 2005, after stealing a few hot dogs and some sacramental wine in the course of an inebriated evening.

"There is really nothing unusual about the rate of church fires," says Conrad Goeringer, who has written about the issue for American Atheist magazine. "There's a tendency to construct a conspiracy theory or link fires together that are totally unrelated."

The National Fire Protection Association agrees, citing a five-year investigation in the late 1990s by the Department of Justice, which concluded there was no broader racial conspiracy. The motives for church arsons mirrored reasons given by arsonsists for torching homes and businesses, says John Hall, vice president for fire analysis at NFPA in Quincy, Mass.

"Especially with juvenile fire-setting, which applies to most church arson, motive is rarely as grand as the damages," he says.

Still, religious motivation may lie behind the Bibb County fires.
(Map) RICH CLABAUGH - STAFF

"If you burn a church and nobody's there, then it's not murder, it's a message," says Joe Barnhart, a religious studies professor at the University of North Texas. "Because we do have freedom of religion, consequently it sends a double message: Even as religion binds people together it also often alienates people."

So far, authorities think a local resident is the culprit in the Bibb County fires, someone who would know exactly where the small, out of the way churches are located - all far from the main road. Often a church arsonist is someone the congregation knows, law enforcement experts say.

"There's been many times when those people who are committing the crime lived in the neighborhood and often frequented the churches," says ATF Special Agent Austin Banks. "Definitely, to commit a crime such as this, there's a deep, deep psychological and emotional trauma that's going on in a person. You definitely have deep-seated issues if you're involved in burning a church."
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Nearly 1,000 churches burned between 1996 and 2000 nationwide


That is in a nation that is over 78% Christian. Church burnings have been a common tool to frighten and intimidate black Southerners for over 150 years. Just because a few churches are torched in India does not mean that the nation is full of bigots and the government encourages it, violence against minorities happens even in "Enlightened" :azn: countries like the US.
 
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Salaams,

It is Haraam to kidnap,

It is Haraam to force someone to convert...

You can only convey the message...and Allah will do the rest.
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There are Muslims who kill other innocent people.

Its Haraam to Kill innocent people.

The point is that, there are bad and good people in every society...
Some adhere to the truth while others don't...

However there are some more "bad" people in certain societies, same case goes to "good" people.

So long as people understand that there are some 'bad' people and some 'good' people, I think that should indicate what happens all over the world!

When terrorists attack, it does not mean all people are terrorists.

When mosques are bombed, it does not mean all are bombers or Pakistan has become unIslamic.

When Churches are burnt and temples bombed, it does not mean all people are not secular!

But since I have not seen God nor seen his retributions, I would not be too categoric that God will take necessary action and even if it does, nothing indicates that it is changing our lives.

I rather be pragmatic and a realist than one who believes in fatalism, even though fatalism is a great balm to soothe the soul and dampen the shock.
 
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Look, lets get this clear, these missionaries aren't angels either. They use all sorts of tactics to achieve mass conversions, completely changing the nature of these tribal societies.
NE India is already in trouble with christian terrorism becoming endemic. The last thing we need is another large christian population hostile to the state.

Don't get me wrong...I have nothing against christians. They are some of the most progressive communities in India. However, these "christians" in question are simply being used as vote banks by the local "christian" leaders.

Ultimately, christianity is a monotheistic religion, whose teachings, if used in the wrong way, can lead to a totalitarian ideology being developed in the region.

Again, don't get me wrong. These acts by VHP are horrible and definitely shouldn't have happened. However, we need to look deeper to understand the nature of the problem.
 
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worthynews.com/christian/india-hindu-militants-burn-down-church-christian-tortured-official-says/


christianpersecutionindia.blogspot.com/2005/05/hindu-extremists-in-india-attack.html

christianpersecutionindia.blogspot.com/2004_02_01_archive.html

these links are credible?
 
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Its funny the standard bearers of secularism jump on the Hindu's after missionaries systematically deride Hindu gods, attacking our places of worship and finally climax it up with attacking a eighty year old Sanyasin who was merely trying to stop conversions by talking to the people involved! :lol:

Faith is really blind!

These acts by VHP are horrible and definitely shouldn't have happened. However, we need to look deeper to understand the nature of the problem.

From my limited understanding of how issues stand Hindu organizations are now recieving more support thanks to the unceasing attacks on Hindus by Abrahamic faiths and the standard bearers of secularism.

Address the root cause of aggression against the Hindu's and you've just killed their raison d etre.
 
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Whether the news is true or not, it does not correctly point out the condition of Christians in India. There are 3 Chrisitian CMs in India including in non-Christian majority states. They are leading in education and many professions including education.

This kind of thing only happens in remote tribal areas where large scale conversion is being attempted against strong local resistance mixed with local political interests
 
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I'm not sure about the other two but this Sameul Rajashekara Reddy chap in Andhra is communal. Hindu organisations had to fight to retain Tirupathi hills for the historic Balaji temple. Morons wanted a church erected on the Tirumala!
 
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Religion - all religions - speaks of good of humanity.

That is the spiritual side.

However, the temporal side of religion is that it is an instrument which the clergy - all clergies - use to empower themselves financially and with power - over the masses.

This quest to have more power over more people and thus more money through contributions is what causes the rift between those who swipe away the gullible masses and those who lose those gullible masses.

The religious r-at race.

Assisted by hired goons under the guise of religion!
 
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I'm not sure about the other two but this Sameul Rajashekara Reddy chap in Andhra is communal. Hindu organisations had to fight to retain Tirupathi hills for the historic Balaji temple. Morons wanted a church erected on the Tirumala!

Only in India!
 
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Religion - all religions - speaks of good of humanity.

I don't subscribe to this view. I now believe that all religions were invented by the clergy.
 
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In India, Churches Torched On Christmas

NEW DELHI, Dec. 26, 2007
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(AP) Hindu extremists ransacked and burned eight village churches in eastern India, marring Christmas celebrations in a corner of the country with a history of violence against Christians, officials said Wednesday. One person was killed in the violence.

Authorities deployed 450 police and imposed a curfew to quell the violence in the remote district of Orissa state where the churches — most nothing more than mud and thatch houses — were attacked, said Bahugrahi Mahapatra, a government official.

Six village churches were torched on Christmas Day, and two more were attacked Wednesday along with 10 houses belonging to Christians, Mahapatra said.

India is overwhelmingly Hindu but officially secular, a fact India's leaders often point out. They note that religious minorities, such as Christians, who account for 2.5 percent of the country's 1.1. billion people, and Muslims, who make up 14 percent, often coexist peacefully. Some have risen to the highest levels of government and business.

But throughout India's history, both communities have faced repeated attacks from hard-line Hindus, with violence against Christians often directed at foreign missionaries and Hindu coverts to the religion.


Orissa has one of the worst histories of anti-Christian violence. In one of the most brutal incidents, an Australian missionary and his two sons, aged 8 and 10, where burned to death in their car following a Bible study class in 1999.

Orissa is also the only Indian state that has a law requiring people to obtain police permission before they change their religion. The law was intended to counter missionary work.
What the hell state permission to change religon in a proclaimed secular state???? Religous converts are victimised in India or shall I call it Hindustan?
Hypocrisy has new limits.:disagree:
Another event of ethnic war crime, under reported by Indian media.
 
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I wasn't the one who dragged Pakistan into it, you did by stating that the rights of the monorities are protected in Pakistan in accordance to the sayings of Quran. I simply posted a link that speaks of the contrary. Now it is obvious that Quran doesn't say anything about kidnapping hindu girls & forcing their marriage to muslim. Therefore, what you said is incorrect & that Pakistan fails to protect the rights of its minorities.

Well come up with a better article next time to prove someone wrong other then from some J whoever he was which could not even be validated. Also it was not me who brought the issue but a mere response to vindod who said that we dont expect lectures about secularism from a non secular country. Besides like i always say pakistan isnt secular so perhaps according to you rights of non muslim must not be safe in pakistan but india is atleast thats what indians protay, so in a country where all are same and secured with respect to their religions and beliefs, an act like this puts a doubt. Also if you do a little google and compare the percentage of the rights abuse both in india and pakistan, you will find out that besides being a non secular country minority abuse is very low as compared to what happens in secular india.
 
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We also have a right to life under constitustion, but murders still happen. You have a right to dignity, but rapes occur all over the world. You have a right to property but robbery occurs.

All this happens despite the state not because of it. The state wants to protect us (ideally at least) but it is not all powerful to prevent everything everywhere.

So if in a vast country of billion plus people, if these kinds of incidents prove that Indian secularism is false, Pakistanis are the only ones insinuating that. Why no other country thinks so. They can appreciate the difficulty in being a secular democracy in a region where there is hardly any democracy for a thousand mile around or more.

Pl. appreciate that India also faces many problems like your country does. If in spite of all the problems you believe in your country's ideals, give India the same space, that is if someone is not doing it with malice in his heart.
 
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We also have a right to life under constitustion, but murders still happen. You have a right to dignity, but rapes occur all over the world. You have a right to property but robbery occurs.

All this happens despite the state not because of it. The state wants to protect us (ideally at least) but it is not all powerful to prevent everything everywhere.

Aggreed, however the same principle should be applied to everyone and everywhere and not only to india.

So if in a vast country of billion plus people, if these kinds of incidents prove that Indian secularism is false, Pkaistanis are the only ones insinuating that. Why no other country thinks so. They can appreciate the difficulty in being a secular democracy in a region where there is hardly any democracy for a thousand mile around or more.

Thats a matter of opinion and self interest. If you talk about the world, even you know how bias they are. Allow me to prove it. The US is the most that shouts for deomcracy all of the world, since we are talking about SA so in this case pakistan and how they want to see democracy prevail here but this is the same US that supports the dictatorship in egypt because that serves their purpose and i can give you many other examples. You see if these churches were burnt in pakistan, all hell would had got loose from all over the world, the humanrights watch, the media, the redcross and god knows what, but in india's case no one bothered to even condemn the act if not more. So as for you saying why only pakistanies and not the rest of the world simple because hipocrasy is at its top. India is just too important strategicaly for them to raise issues like these.
 
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