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Churches burnt in India

We are not talking how things should be but how they are!

In a perfect world things would be much different but it is not a perfect world, is it?

Lets not try to judge others by their actions and ourselves by our ideals. ;)
 
Lets not try to judge others by their actions and ourselves by our ideals. ;)

NO no no! you misunderstood, why would we judge anyone. Its just a debate. However since pakistan came in between the track went slightly offtopic.
 
Even you are a muslim or atleast protay to be one and if you ever did read the Quran you would know how clearly it states the muslims to protect the lives and things property etc of a non muslim when he/she lives with you and that too in minority. Even you cant deny the bold part

All that pretence is quickly dropped and the kaffirs are made fair game when no one is looking. Takkiya.
 
IceCold, that is the point. India has its issues. No doubts. But those who preach to us need to have the moral courage based on what they practice.

Let him cast the first stone who has not sinned. ;)
 
We are what we are and we follow the guidance of the holly quran and that is the very reason the name of pakistan is islamic republic of pakistan and we treat miniorites with respect to the teaching of the holy quran.

Even you are a muslim or atleast protay to be one and if you ever did read the Quran you would know how clearly it states the muslims to protect the lives and things property etc of a non muslim when he/she lives with you and that too in minority. Even you cant deny the bold part

I am most definately sure this isn't what the holy Quran teaches.

Kidnap Hindu Girl, Force Marriage to Muslim: Pakistan
By J. Grant Swank Jr.

Sanao Menghwar has had three of his daughters kidnapped, then forced to marry Muslim men. That means that the young women were coerced into becoming Islamics.

This happens daily, particularly in the Pakistani Sindh province, according to Hasan Mansoor, reporter, Midday.com.

Other Hindus in the province worry when their daughters will disappear. Therefore, there are entire Hindu families leaving Pakistan for Canada, India or other nations.Menghewar and his wife left their house on errands. When they returned to their residence, their daughters were missing. They reported the missing young women to the police department, filing the necessary papers. Neighbors helped them on a search party to locate the daughters, but to no avail.

Menghwar’s daughters have yet to be found. However, authorities have arrested three Islamic young men assumed to be connected with the girls’ kidnapping. The men have been released on bail by a court due to the men being minors.


"’Kidnapping Hindu girls like this has become a normal practice. The girls are then forced to sign stamp papers stating that they’ve become Muslims,’ says Laljee Menghwar, a member of the Hindu Panchayat in Karachi."

Because of Muslim threats, Hindus have had to turn to what those in the Netherlands are resorting to. Both areas have been under extreme pressure from maiming and killing Islamics so that the local citizens have put into action what one person refers to as "self-censorship."

There is no talk. There is no public utterance. There is nothing said negatively about the Muslims in the area for fear of being slain.

So it is that Islamic killers international could overtake country after country, area after area. Instill such fear in the people that no one speaks the facts concerning local Islamics kidnapping and killing; therefore, they have open skies to do just that — more so.

"’Hindus here are too frightened to vent their anger — they fear victimization,’ said one local."

Nevertheless, Pakistani Christian community members have come to their aid. The Christians have organized support for the Hindus persecuted by Muslims. The Christians have "carried out a demonstration with them in Karachi, protesting against this crime.

"Similarly startling incidents have occurred in several districts of Sindh and evoked identical responses. At least six Hindu girls met this fate a few months ago in Jacobabad (a tribal area heavily inhabited by Hindus) and Larkana districts.

"Sapna, the daughter of one Seth Giyanchand, was recently taken to a shrine (Amrote in Shikarpur district) by Shamsuddin Dasti. Dasti, a Muslim friend of Sapna’s brother, is a married man and father of two.

"Nevertheless, the custodian of the shrine, Maulvi Abdul Aziz lost no time in converting Sapna to Islam (her name was changed to ‘Mehek’) and marrying her to Dasti. The case came to light only when Sapna’s parents stated that their daughter hadn’t eloped but had been abducted."

Islamic fanaticism is increasing alarmingly, according to Nuzzhat Shirin of the Aurat Foundation. The fanatics erect shrines that are used in coercing "conversions." When a Hindu is forced to become a Muslim, zealot Islamics gather at the shrines, chanting and singing and marching in the streets.

Such a ruckus is made that if the young kidnapped girl appears in court, the fanatic Muslims yell, scream, throw rose petals into the air and follow the youth into the building so that she is so intimidated that she can hardly speak.

It is Muslim winning by intimidation. It is Muslim overcoming a culture by threatening. It is by Islamics abducting young girls that an entire community is snuffed out by moving away or succumbing to the Muslim murderers global.


"The threat of victimization by Muslims is palpable; Shirin says when forced conversion cases make it to court, lawyers themselves avoid taking them up, fearing a backlash from maulvis."

It is the same with so-called "honor killing." When Muslim males slay a Hindu female whom they have accused of dishonoring the clan in some way, usually police and media say nothing, looking the other way. Therefore, the slaughtering of innocent females continues daily.

"And forced conversions are not the only problem that the Hindu minority (there are 2.7 million Hindus in Pakistan; Pakistan’s total population is 140 million) is facing in the country.

"A powerful syndicate of bandits and patrons in the northern districts of Sindh regularly kidnap rich Hindus for ransom. They not only kill hostages if the ransom doesn’t arrive on time, they even kill some despite their ransom being paid.

"Sadham Chand Chawla, the former president of the Hindu Panchayat, Jacobabad, was abducted and murdered. His killers remain at large despite enormous protests. Following his murder, his family had received several threats until they secretly migrated to India."

Copyright © 2005 by J. Grant Swank, Jr.
 
I am most definately sure this isn't what the holy Quran teaches.

Do i even need to comment on it. Come on Bushroda, i didnt expect you to come up with articles such as these. By the way why is pakistan again and again being draged into this thread when its not even about hindus and muslims and more importantly india vs pakistan. We are not secular, we never were ok fine but india is and thats what you guys show your image or atleast pretend to the world so why in the hell were the churches burned by hindus? Also this makes It about christians(minority) vs hindus(majority) and not muslims. So lets stick to the topic here.
 
Salaams,

Obviously...that is ridiculous...Also that is Unislamic...

Usually stories of that caliber get International attention, hence I'm not convinced.

Why don't we look at the Ottoman Caliphate... We see the Armenians... the Christians in Egypt are there...Syria...Malaysia...Indonesia...Who sent an army to Force them to convert, Or even Kazakhstan?

Besides that... We are the Islamic Republic of Pakistan... Miniorities need to realize that they are "minorities" and should not try to preach their religion or aggravate the local culture or people. They are free to practice their religion, and have the right to say " they are being abused and what so not", but afterall they are the minorities and need to understand that their impact on the whole country is quite (how to say it) minimal.


And the point being, India is secular and all... more churches have been burned in India the last decade than churches being burned in Pakistan which has the state religion of Islam.

So thats a valid point.
 
And so we are not secular, but its not us that we are discussing here but india which appears to be secular but still things like these occur.
And while we are an islamic country, civil and legal rights are the same for every person irrespective of which religion he/she is. The Quran very clearly states how a muslim should deal with minorites and hence there should be no doubt in one's mind about the rights of the minorites. Even you are a muslim or atleast protay to be one and if you ever did read the Quran you would know how clearly it states the muslims to protect the lives and things property etc of a non muslim when he/she lives with you and that too in minority. Even you cant deny the bold part

Well, the practice does not support the preaching!

I am sure you cannot deny that.
 
If a rare incident happend then you post such a big article what happend to trains burn in Gujrat the Massacars normally happend every with any minorites even the lower cast indians ... So far we have the Hindu Cheif Justics of Pakistan (Bhagwan Das)
 
If a rare incident happend then you post such a big article what happend to trains burn in Gujrat the Massacars normally happend every with any minorites even the lower cast indians ... So far we have the Hindu Cheif Justics of Pakistan (Bhagwan Das)

Acting and then thrown out!

We have Moslem Presidents, Chief Ministers, Air Force Chiefs etc etc.

Right now the Vice Chief is a Moslem!
 
Salaams,

Whether Ottoman Caliphate did this...Whether the VP was a Muslim or Chief Justice was a Hindu ... it still doesn't change the fact... that:

in the last decade much more churches were burned in a Secular India than in a Pakistan with the state religion of Islam.
 
Do i even need to comment on it. Come on Bushroda, i didnt expect you to come up with articles such as these. By the way why is pakistan again and again being draged into this thread when its not even about hindus and muslims and more importantly india vs pakistan. We are not secular, we never were ok fine but india is and thats what you guys show your image or atleast pretend to the world so why in the hell were the churches burned by hindus? Also this makes It about christians(minority) vs hindus(majority) and not muslims. So lets stick to the topic here.

I wasn't the one who dragged Pakistan into it, you did by stating that the rights of the monorities are protected in Pakistan in accordance to the sayings of Quran. I simply posted a link that speaks of the contrary. Now it is obvious that Quran doesn't say anything about kidnapping hindu girls & forcing their marriage to muslim. Therefore, what you said is incorrect & that Pakistan fails to protect the rights of its minorities.

As for India well it is secular (maybe not too many Indians are). The constitution of India doesn't allow discrimination on the basis of a person's faith. Anyone be it hindu, muslim, christian, sikh, jain, male/female has equal oppurtunity. But, illiteracy & poverty are a bane for any society & therefore it becomes hard to implement true secular nature in a society sometimes. And this is where the clashes result as in Orrisa. But, then there is Kerala where hindus & cristians live amicably next to each other & the christian chief minister (& the current defence minister of India) happens to be the most loved & respected politician by the people of Kerala. Difference between Orrisa & Kerala is obvious. Orrisa is amongst the poorest states in India with literacy around 50% whereas Kerala has the highest literacy rate in India at nearly 100%.
 
Salaams,

It is Haraam to kidnap,

It is Haraam to force someone to convert...

You can only convey the message...and Allah will do the rest.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are Muslims who kill other innocent people.

Its Haraam to Kill innocent people.

The point is that, there are bad and good people in every society...
Some adhere to the truth while others don't...

However there are some more "bad" people in certain societies, same case goes to "good" people.
 

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