Churches burnt in India

[BATMAN]

You don’t need to read any thing, as I have already translated the phrase which you questioned.
I have attached the link as proof, that it is reported on BBC.
If my translation is wrong than many members or moderators might have responded already.

BTW, don't act that this is first time when ethnic crimes are made under state protection. There will hardly be a single day in India's 60 years history when minorities are not targeted because of there religion. Hundreds of thousands of non-Muslims had been killed since inception of Hindustan, either by Hindutva activists or either by state security personals.

Now, I just read again on BBC Urdu that today a Muslim family house has been burnt in which one died and three members were injured and this happened in Madhya Perdaish by activists of RSS.
BBCUrdu.com

Heaven sake, be honest to your self and stop claiming India a secular state where an animal belonging to Hindu have more rights than a Muslim or Christian human.
Where converting from Hinduism means extra judicial killing by extremists under state protection.
It is not secularism; to the contrary it is extreme extreme of religious extremism. Which in other words means, you are far far away from labeling your self secular?
Secularism is your fantasy.

You claim to be democratic where as you have martial laws like; POTA, TADA, OSA and many more, which are primarily used to victimized non-Hindus.
No wonder Hindus get undue opportunities in India so they feel different and cannot imagine how a day to day life is for a non-Hindu.
Muslims in India, live their lives counting days they survived, without getting killed and arrested.
In this Indian life reality, no wonder Indian Muslims have lost there sense of freedom and basic rights and many don’t complain at all.
In India all ethnic crimes do not appear in press until it is a case of death.
No wonder if Muslims in Indian army are treated similarly.

Your state securities are not only equal accomplices in these regular ethnic crimes, instead they have history of shooting Muslims and declaring it encounter.
Have you ever wondered why most encounters happened with suppressed minorities?

 

[Bushroda]

You don’t need to read any thing, as I have already translated the phrase which you questioned.
I have attached the link as proof, that it is reported on BBC.
If my translation is wrong than many members or moderators might have responded already.

If could find a link in Urdu than how hard is it to find a similar link in English? It makes sense only if both the debating parties have access to source & I seriously don't wish to get lost in translation.

BTW, don't act that this is first time when ethnic crimes are made under state protection.

Sure, the whole world witnessed the state sponsored crimes in 1971 in Bangladesh.

There will hardly be a single day in India's 60 years history when minorities are not targeted because of there religion. Hundreds of thousands of non-Muslims had been killed since inception of Hindustan, either by Hindutva activists or either by state security personals.

Let's give a rest to the flight of imagination & provide a solid link to prove that state police or military was involved in church burning.

Now, I just read again on BBC Urdu that today a Muslim family house has been burnt in which one died and three members were injured and this happened in Madhya Perdaish by activists of RSS.
BBCUrdu.com

Another of your link that only you can read.

Heaven sake, be honest to your self and stop claiming India a secular state where an animal belonging to Hindu have more rights than a Muslim or Christian human.

Batman, its about time you stop wearing your underpants outside. India is a secular state whether you like or not. The constitution is impartial to every individual irrespective of his faith. There is no country where there are no inter-religious conflicts. Even in US there were attacks on muslims post 9/11. France, Britain & other developed European countries have too witnessed inter community conflicts. Similar things happen in India. Illiteracy & poverty only make the situation worse.

Where converting from Hinduism means extra judicial killing by extremists under state protection.
It is not secularism; to the contrary it is extreme extreme of religious extremism. Which in other words means, you are far far away from labeling your self secular?
Secularism is your fantasy.

Extra judicial killings for conversion from Hinduism!!!!
We arn't talking about Pakistan here. Show me a link where a single person has been killed by state for converting from hinduism. And yes, please make sure it isn't in URDU.

No wonder Hindus get undue opportunities in India so they feel different and cannot imagine how a day to day life is for a non-Hindu.
Muslims in India, live their lives counting days they survived, without getting killed and arrested.

In this Indian life reality, no wonder Indian Muslims have lost there sense of freedom and basic rights and many don’t complain at all.
In India all ethnic crimes do not appear in press until it is a case of death.
No wonder if Muslims in Indian army are treated similarly.

I seriously do not have any empathy for emotional f@rts. You can save this mumbo-jumbo for some other day & some one else. Just provide a link to state that churches are burned by police.

 

[Vinod2070]

Who is passionately mad to infiltrate in my state affairs

I thought this thread was about India! Guess it was a typo by Jana.

If not, is the shoe on the other foot?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I like when you wink at the end and even I don't mind jokes.
What can be clearly seen is who is having sleepless nights. Who is logged on around the clock. Who is passionately mad to infiltrate in my state affairs

Security is eternal vigilance.

One has to see what happens in the neighbour hood including what people in the neighbourhood is talking.

Whatever happens in India or Pakistan affects both and not always pleasantly! That is the sad commentary of history!

Indians are equally perturbed over this tragic event, which can lead to some fanatics, jingos and fundamentalist precipitating a crisis that can spin out of control!

This would be more saddening since there has been a considerable thaw in the relationship in the last few years.

Therefore, the saner elements on both sides have to be wary and on guard so that fools don't upset the apple cart.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Hindus, Christians clash again in India
Posted: 28 December, 2007

Hindu extremists burned down the house of a prominent Christian politician in eastern India yesterday.

The violence appears to be ongoing despite a curfew imposed after two days of attacks against Christians in Orissa State. At least a dozen churches were burned or ransacked in the Christmas riots.

A mob of Hindus torched the house of Radhakant Nayak, a member of the Indian parliament's upper house and a Christian leader in the area. One official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, thought the attacks were an apparent retaliation for earlier attacks on churches, which were followed by the burning of several Hindu homes. Angry Hindus then burned down the village police station.

At this point, the situation seems to be escalating. Yet, Voice of the Martyrs' Todd Nettleton wonders, "Will the police really go after the instigators, or will it be swept under the rug? Orissa is a state that has a history of violence against Christians, so it's hard to say if there will be justice. What we do know is that these Christians will continue to reach out."

Christian leaders are urging government protection after the attacks. They expressed concerns that the violence could rival Gujarat's troubles in December 1998.

The predilection toward sectarian trouble makes this more likely because Orissa is also one of four states with an active anti-conversion law, and, since 2000, baptism requires the permission of the government. Despite all of this, the body of Christ in Orissa continues to flourish. A new Oriya Bible was published in 1998.

Nettleton says prayer goes a long way toward peace. "Voice of the Martyrs is very active in India. I would expect that our staff there very soon will talk to the believers there, to see how we can best assist them and to encourage them that we're lifting them up."

Link:
Mission Network News

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

It is a journalistic ploy to spread dissension when the attribute anything to officials speaking under anonymity.

Be it any religion, conversion, re-conversion etc is not permitted without ascertaining whether allurement, threat or bribes are involved to make a person change religion.

It is also to ensure that some slim customers don't take the money, change the religion and then return to the old religion and thereby making it a 'business' and making a fool of the religious organisation which had given the bribe and thus create bad blood and more confusion!

Conversion is big business for the religious organisation and some unsavoury characters who convert and re-convert and make it a livelihood, apart from making a fool of the society and of the religious organisations and of the religions!

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Does not mean that one should start eradicating the Christians if Churches are preaching Christianity in India.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Not really as it would not be correct to raze mosques or bomb temples!

Religion is big business and so when money is involved, stupid things happen!

My post above is about All religious organisations and of those who are fooling the religious organisations and making a mockery of religion per se!!

 

[Spring Onion]

Violence forces Christians to move into camps

December 29 2007 at 03:47PM

Nearly 700 Christians fearing attacks by Hindu hard-liners took shelter in government-run relief camps on Saturday after sectarian violence in eastern India left at least four people dead last week.
Authorities were providing food, medicine and security to Christians who moved into the four relief camps on Friday in the rural district of Kandhamal in eastern Orissa state, said Pradeep Kapoor, the inspector-general of police.

Meanwhile, two police officers were suspended for failing to prevent violence on Christmas Eve, when long-standing tensions between the Hindu majority and the small Christian community erupted over conversions to Christianity, Kapoor told The Associated Press.






Nearly 800 police and paramilitary forces were trying to restore calm, he said.

No fresh incidents of violence were reported on Saturday for a second day in Kandhamal, nearly 200 km west of Bhubaneshwar, the capital of Orissa state, Kapoor said.

The state government also transferred the top district administrator, Bhabagrahi Mohapatra, as punishment for failing to stop the fighting.

Three people were killed Thursday when police opened fire on a group of hard-line Hindus who set fire to a police station in Kandhamal district's Brahmangaon village. They said police failed to protect them after a group of Christians burned down several Hindu homes in apparent retaliation for attacks on churches, officials said.

Another person also died last week in communal fighting.

About 19 churches have been ransacked and burned since Monday and several homes have been destroyed.

At least 25 people have been arrested, Superintendent of Police Narsingh Bhol said.

India is overwhelmingly Hindu but officially secular. Religious minorities - such as Christians, who account for 2.5 percent of the country's 1,1 billion people, and Muslims, who make up 14 percent - often coexist peacefully.

But throughout India's history, the issue of conversions has sparked violence by hard-line Hindus.

Hindu groups have long charged Christian missionaries with trying to lure the poor and those who occupy the lowest rungs of Hinduism's complex caste-system away with promises of money and jobs. - Sapa-AP
-------------
IOL: Violence forces Christians to move into camps

 

[Spring Onion]

BTW sir Ray as was reported that violence was started when "The trouble between the communities sparked after Hindu right-wing organizations objected to plans by local Christian groups to celebrate Christmas in a big way."


So the put aside conversion issue for a moment how on eart celebrating Christmas could harm the Hindus ????

Atleast the Christians have this much right to do under secular country or not ?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Jana,

In the Islamic world, conversion is a common phenomenon?

Remember the case of the South Koreans?

What does the Islamic law say on Moslems converting to other religions? (Sura 2.217: and Sura 16.106).

There is no doubt that what is happening in Orissa is most disgusting, but there is nothing to make a song and a dance about it. It is not religion, it is politics.

However, there is also a belief that one should be allowed to change his religion when one desires.

That is also a good thing.

It is people who ruin life on issue like this!

 

[Spring Onion]

Jana,

In the Islamic world, conversion is a common phenomenon?

Remember the case of the South Koreans?

What does the Islamic law say on Moslems converting to other religions?

There is no doubt that what is happening in Orissa is most disgusting, but there is nothing to make a song and a dance about it.

Nobody is dancing over it.

Whatever the law is in Islamic countries (which i dont think so there is any so far) India claims to be a Secular country hence Contrary to the Islamic countries, in India there should be no such restriction as being secular country it claims to discouarge any religiouse discrimination.

isnt it

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Nobody is dancing over it.

Whatever the law is in Islamic countries (which i dont think so there is any so far) India claims to be a Secular country hence Contrary to the Islamic countries, in India there should be no such restriction as being secular country it claims to discouarge any religiouse discrimination.

isnt it

Sharia is clear about conversion.

and whoever of you turns back from his religion, then he dies...... "he who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, (...) on these is
the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.- (Sura 2.217: and Sura 16.106). In both of these as well other passages, the Koran repeatedly stresses that enduring everlasting fire and severe punishment in the afterworld on those who turn their backs on the Islalmic faith. According to the Koran, however, death is not explicitly mentioned as a punishment, on this earth.

It will be applicable in all countries where there is the Sharia in vogue.

What is happening in Orissa is nothing for anyone to be proud about either! And I don't think anyone is justifying the same.

Religious intolerance has to be condemned, be it in any part of the world.

I am sure no Indian is delighted at what is going on in Orissa.

Just posting a news report without comments is hardly the way to indicate what one wants to say. It appears as if it is being pasted to provoke/ gloat/or make capital of a disgusting issue.

Discuss the issue.

Violence forces Christians to move into camps

December 29 2007 at 03:47PM

Nearly 700 Christians fearing attacks by Hindu hard-liners took shelter in government-run relief camps on Saturday after sectarian violence in eastern India left at least four people dead last week.
Authorities were providing food, medicine and security to Christians who moved into the four relief camps on Friday in the rural district of Kandhamal in eastern Orissa state, said Pradeep Kapoor, the inspector-general of police.

Meanwhile, two police officers were suspended for failing to prevent violence on Christmas Eve, when long-standing tensions between the Hindu majority and the small Christian community erupted over conversions to Christianity, Kapoor told The Associated Press.






Nearly 800 police and paramilitary forces were trying to restore calm, he said.

No fresh incidents of violence were reported on Saturday for a second day in Kandhamal, nearly 200 km west of Bhubaneshwar, the capital of Orissa state, Kapoor said.

The state government also transferred the top district administrator, Bhabagrahi Mohapatra, as punishment for failing to stop the fighting.

Three people were killed Thursday when police opened fire on a group of hard-line Hindus who set fire to a police station in Kandhamal district's Brahmangaon village. They said police failed to protect them after a group of Christians burned down several Hindu homes in apparent retaliation for attacks on churches, officials said.

Another person also died last week in communal fighting.

About 19 churches have been ransacked and burned since Monday and several homes have been destroyed.

At least 25 people have been arrested, Superintendent of Police Narsingh Bhol said.

India is overwhelmingly Hindu but officially secular. Religious minorities - such as Christians, who account for 2.5 percent of the country's 1,1 billion people, and Muslims, who make up 14 percent - often coexist peacefully.

But throughout India's history, the issue of conversions has sparked violence by hard-line Hindus.

Hindu groups have long charged Christian missionaries with trying to lure the poor and those who occupy the lowest rungs of Hinduism's complex caste-system away with promises of money and jobs. - Sapa-AP
-------------
IOL: Violence forces Christians to move into camps

 

[Spring Onion]

Sharia is clear about conversion.

and whoever of you turns back from his religion, then he dies...... "he who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, (...) on these is
the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.- (Sura 2.217: and Sura 16.106). In both of these as well other passages, the Koran repeatedly stresses that enduring everlasting fire and severe punishment in the afterworld on those who turn their backs on the Islalmic faith. According to the Koran, however, death is not explicitly mentioned as a punishment, on this earth.
It will be applicable in all countries where there is the Sharia in vogue.

.

I think you being an educated person and civilized too so for the first time i wish to see you praise Islam for this i highlighted the parts of your post quoting Quran
My dear Sir Ray it clearly Shows that Islam Does not order any Punishment in this world for those who convert from Islam to any other religion rather it says i would again quote your own reference here "Koran repeatedly stresses that enduring everlasting fire and severe punishment in the afterworld"


So by as per Quran Allah says they will be punished in the afterworld by Allah and not by any Human.
Hence no such law in any Islamic Country that mention any punishment for the same.


So my dear Islam does not orders any violence against thos who converts to other religion


Islam Zaindabad indeed.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Islam possibly does not, but those who practice it, do!

That is the unfortunate commentary!

As I have always said, here and elsewhere, that religions speaks of good things. It is those who practice it, make their own interpretations and force it on others (mostly illiterates) and the fireworks start!

Practitioners of all religions make a mess in the name of religion!