Chinese Foreign Affairs News & Discussions

[Chinese-Dragon]

You guys had the Red Army march on your soil in 1969 and both you had nukes!

That wasn't a full-blown war, that was just border clashes. And at that time China did not have a significant nuclear stockpile either.

Like you said, even without a large nuclear stockpile, it becomes limited to "conflicts" rather than full-blown "wars".

Anyway I'm not sure what I'm trying to convince you of. If you feel a future "war" between India and Pakistan is inevitable, then what can I say.

 

[corporate_slave]

My god you are peanut, I put the link because there are comments linking to other reports by US congressional findings indicating that India too is guilty of proliferation. Can you 100% say that India has never proliferated any Nuclear Technology to other nations???

I did not deny any of what you said is inaccurate except for how you like to paint the GOI as some kind of saint in this affairs.

I have not heard of anyone claiming that India is guilty of proliferation, except by the Pakistani propaganda machine. I would be obliged if you could provide the link right here. Until I see a link (a Pakistani Jingo site won't do, neither will some blogspot/wordpress thing), I will maintain that India has 100% never proliferated any nuke technology. (by the way, when you speak of 'Nations', which nation are you referring to? There can't be too many which you have in mind!). I accept, as does the other Indian poster, that India is also guilty of obtain tech through 'underhand means' (for lack of a better word), but that is very different from proliferation.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I have not heard of anyone claiming that India is guilty of proliferation, except by the Pakistani propaganda machine. I would be obliged if you could provide the link right here. Until I see a link (a Pakistani Jingo site won't do, neither will some blogspot/wordpress thing), I will maintain that India has 100% never proliferated any nuke technology. (by the way, when you speak of 'Nations', which nation are you referring to? There can't be too many which you have in mind!). I accept, as does the other Indian poster, that India is also guilty of obtain tech through 'underhand means' (for lack of a better word), but that is very different from proliferation.

OK, for the sake of argument, let's assume that China is guilty of proliferation, and India is not. (Neither of which can be proved officially).

What now?

 

[justanobserver]

Originally Posted by mike05
My god you are peanut, I put the link because there are comments linking to other reports by US congressional findings indicating that India too is guilty of proliferation.

What such comments (regarding to India proliferating nukes) are there ?

The lone article (whos author is some Pakistani with an anglo name, happens a lot, google 'Christina Palmer') only appears on a blog, a questionable pakistani defense journal (stopped in 2006) and a third rate pakistani newspaper, heck the article even mentions the Hindu caste system !

Originally Posted by mike05
I did not deny any of what you said is inaccurate except for how you like to paint the GOI as some kind of saint in this affairs.

In obtaining nukes, yeah we employed every dirty trick in the book , converting a Canadian research reactor into a military one, probably took help from Russians too

In proliferation yes we're saints . But I don't get it, why are you trying to implicate us? No credible source exists, you've taken a stance of 'guilty until proven innocent' (which we are when we got the NPT exemption)

 

[Illusive]

My god you are peanut, I put the link because there are comments linking to other reports by US congressional findings indicating that India too is guilty of proliferation. Can you 100% say that India has never proliferated any Nuclear Technology to other nations???

I did not deny any of what you said is inaccurate except for how you like to paint the GOI as some kind of saint in this affairs.

The only proliferation India did was 74 nuke testing. Faced lot of sanctions, other than that its clean, clean that numerous nations are willing to give India nuclear deals. Surely there were objections but in the end they trust India.

 

[justanobserver]

Originally Posted by Chinese-Dragon
OK, for the sake of argument, let's assume that China is guilty of proliferation, and India is not. (Neither of which can be proved officially).

There are plenty of articles showing China proliferating nukes to Pakistan, two links were posted from the Washington Post and FAS. However countries can't be sued, heck you're in the P5.

Other countries have proliferated too, France to Israel is one such example I can think of (FAS again has articles on it), but what is anyone going to do about it? Sue France?

Originally Posted by Illusive
The only proliferation India did was 74 nuke testing.

We didn't proliferate it to other countries, that is the main point

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

There are plenty of articles showing China proliferating nukes to Pakistan, two links were posted from the Washington Post and FAS. However countries can't be sued, heck you're in the P5.

Other countries have proliferated too, France to Israel is one such example I can think of (FAS again has articles on it), but what is anyone going to do about it? Sue France?

I'll wait until China is officially recognized as a proliferator by other governments, rather than just some news stories.

And like I said, assuming this is true, what now?

Does that mean that South Asia will forever be bound in the alignment of China and the USA supporting Pakistan? (Russia supports both India and China so it cancels out).

 

[corporate_slave]

OK, for the sake of argument, let's assume that China is guilty of proliferation, and India is not. (Neither of which can be proved officially).

What now?

Actually, I wasn't even talking about China!

I was contradicting the posters presumption that India proliferated Nuke tech!

 

[corporate_slave]

The only proliferation India did was 74 nuke testing.

That's not called 'proliferation'. Poliferation means selling the nuke tech to other countries. What we did was obtain the nuke tech under the guise of civilian tech.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Actually, I wasn't even talking about China!

I was contradicting the posters presumption that India proliferated Nuke tech!

Sorry, I was directing that comment towards justanobserver.

(For the record I never accused anyone of proliferating anything.)

 

[Illusive]

As far as China and India relationship is concerned, both are important nations in Asia. World watches our progress, publishes blogs articles about our economy. But sadly both see each other as threat, but those issues are small which can be solved diplomatically. It will grow if the governments put an effort to it, if media puts effort into it. People will then definitely like each other.

The relations have stalled a bit, but there are these rough patches, we have to live together, because we are people, people of two great countries.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

India has a very good record in proliferation..one of the reasons why Japan agreed to go for a nuclear deal with India.

 

[justanobserver]

Originally Posted by Chinese-Dragon
I'll wait until China is officially recognized as a proliferator by other governments, rather than just some news stories.

And like I said, assuming this is true, what now?

What? There is no official body of "recognition of proliferation" outside of the P5, the P5 can do what they wish

And like I said, assuming this is true, what now?

Dude the links are from FAS!
FAS is not some joke agency, it's the Federation of American Scientists!

The Federation of American Scientists (FAS) is a nonpartisan, 501(c)(3) organization dedicated to using science and scientific analysis to make the world more secure. FAS was founded in 1945 by scientists who worked on the Manhattan Project to develop the first atomic bombs.

My thinking is not "oh lets sue china" but responses for the following statements made by mike

Originally Posted by mike05
China did not provide Nukes, Pakistan developed the nukes herself

Originally Posted by mike05(talk about trying to take the moral high ground). Both sides obtain their weapons thru unorthodox means so there is no right and wrong in either case, what makes India's methods of obtaining its weapons any better then Pakistan's?

My point point being, we do hold the moral high ground (against pakistan) as we didn't proliferate weapons, but again that's not totally related to the title of the thread

 

[Mirza Jatt]

If majority of Indian and Chinese on this forum agree that the relation between two countries will be/should be good and warm...this itself proves what the majority of the learned men in both the countries want.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

The relations have stalled a bit, but there are these rough patches, we have to live together, because we are people, people of two great countries.

That's how I feel as well.