Chinese Foreign Affairs News & Discussions

[Developereo]

At the risk of being a party pooper, allow me to inject some common sense and a reality check into this superficial love-fest. I will phrase my questions to the Chinese members, but the mirror questions apply equally well to the Indian members.

- I see a lot of this fraternal feeling is based on a perceived mutual enmity of 'the white man', but what makes you think the Indian is any more trustworthy than the European? Surely it isn't based on some misplaced belief in Asian brotherhood -- not after what the Japanese, Chinese, Mongols, Cambodians, Indians, Arabs, etc. have all done to each other over the centuries.

- Whom exactly do you suppose the Indian military buildup is aimed at?

- There is almost no shared culture between China and India; they might as well be on separate continents.

- Anecdotal evidence about interaction with people from the other country is meaningless. Ordinary people are mostly decent, smart, hardworking, etc. from all countries. We are all human. It will have zero impact if there is a significant national security conflict between the nations.

- The only reason there hasn't been any significant clash of the two nations is purely an accident of history. The reason the Mongols spared India was because it was an insignificant backwater compared to the flourishing and rich Middle East.

- Geographically, there is absolutely nothing India can provide to China that it doesn't already get from Pakistan. In fact, considerably less, since alienating Pakistan will mean that China has to go the long way through the CARs to get to the Middle East. And neither Turkey nor Russia is going to let China get too comfortable in the CARs.

So, bottom line, China doesn't need India as an ally at all -- except to keep it from becoming a Western ally.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

- Whom exactly do you suppose the Indian military buildup is aimed at?

The immediate answer would be China of course.Considering the fact that one of high level diplomatic personnel even once said that China is no.1 threat.

But if seen a bit more carefully you"ll realize that China for India is more of an excuse to build up our military.That poses another question "Why India needs a powerful military when its existing/perceived threats are China and Pakistan?"
Simple answer would be the ex in 1971 we had to face an American carrier.
Also, we Indians like all crave for power.


-

There is almost no shared culture between China and India; they might as well be on separate continents.

Even if someone boasts that Buddhism was India's export to China in ancient times,truth be told,there is not much of Chinese culture in India or vice -versa when compared to other Indianized countries like Laos,Cambodia,Thailand etc.


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The only reason there hasn't been any significant clash of the two nations is purely an accident of history.

Himalayas served as a good natural geographic fence.
Also Chinese kingdoms never expanded beyond modern day Xinjiang or say into Burma to come in contact with India.
Same for the Indian Kingdoms.

There was however one clash in the 18th-19th century the Sino-Sikh War,which was a stalemate.

The reason the Mongols spared India was because it was an insignificant backwater compared to the flourishing and rich Middle East.

The Mongol invasions into India were repelled by Delhi Sultanate ,even though Kashmir did fall into their hands

Mongol invasions of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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Geographically, there is absolutely nothing India can provide to China that it doesn't already get from Pakistan. In fact, considerably less, since alienating Pakistan will mean that China has to go the long way through the CARs to get to the Middle East. And neither Turkey nor Russia is going to let China get too comfortable in the CARs.

Completely agree

So, bottom line, China doesn't need India as an ally at all -- except to keep it from becoming a Western ally.

Yes! as of now we aren't valuable to them in any way.But we are considered a future potential rival.

 

[CardSharp]

At the risk of being a party pooper, allow me to inject some common sense and a reality check into this superficial love-fest. I will phrase my questions to the Chinese members, but the mirror questions apply equally well to the Indian members.

- I see a lot of this fraternal feeling is based on a perceived mutual enmity of 'the white man', but what makes you think the Indian is any more trustworthy than the European? Surely it isn't based on some misplaced belief in Asian brotherhood -- not after what the Japanese, Chinese, Mongols, Cambodians, Indians, Arabs, etc. have all done to each other over the centuries.

- Whom exactly do you suppose the Indian military buildup is aimed at?

- There is almost no shared culture between China and India; they might as well be on separate continents.

- Anecdotal evidence about interaction with people from the other country is meaningless. Ordinary people are mostly decent, smart, hardworking, etc. from all countries. We are all human. It will have zero impact if there is a significant national security conflict between the nations.

- The only reason there hasn't been any significant clash of the two nations is purely an accident of history. The reason the Mongols spared India was because it was an insignificant backwater compared to the flourishing and rich Middle East.

- Geographically, there is absolutely nothing India can provide to China that it doesn't already get from Pakistan. In fact, considerably less, since alienating Pakistan will mean that China has to go the long way through the CARs to get to the Middle East. And neither Turkey nor Russia is going to let China get too comfortable in the CARs.

So, bottom line, China doesn't need India as an ally at all -- except to keep it from becoming a Western ally.

What is your obsession with race?

 

[Developereo]

we are considered a future potential rival.

Which brings me to the original point about diplomacy being the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a stick.

What is your obsession with race?

It is not my obsession. I am pointing out that much of the India-China friendship talk centers around an 'Asian' partnership to counter 'Western' dominance.

It is the India-China friendship boosters who use the race card (evil white man) to support their arguments. I am pointing out that Asia doesn't have much of a history of brotherly conduct either, so the race card doesn't wash.

 

[maxx]

- Geographically, there is absolutely nothing India can provide to China that it doesn't already get from Pakistan. In fact, considerably less, since alienating Pakistan will mean that China has to go the long way through the CARs to get to the Middle East. And neither Turkey nor Russia is going to let China get too comfortable in the CARs.

Why would better China-India relation alienate Pakistan? If that's what you mean.

 

[Developereo]

Why would better China-India relation alienate Pakistan? If that's what you mean.

India and Pakistan are arch rivals (although Indians like to pretend they have moved on) and are likely to remain so (despite much shared culture) until core issues like Kashmir are resolved.

 

[eastwatch]

China has military ties with Pakistan, BD, Myanmar and Nepal encircling India.

You have to understand why the countries you have mentioned distrust India and go out for Chinese assistance to build their infrastructure and military. India's foreign policy (regional) is a total failure. India is not trusted and respected by its neighbour, only because it believes in bullying.

 

[CardSharp]

Which brings me to the original point about diplomacy being the art of saying nice doggie until you can find a stick.



It is not my obsession. I am pointing out that much of the India-China friendship talk centers around an 'Asian' partnership to counter 'Western' dominance.

It is the India-China friendship boosters who use the race card (evil white man) to support their arguments. I am pointing out that Asia doesn't have much of a history of brotherly conduct either, so the race card doesn't wash.

The talk about solidarity against white people is irrelevant. Official diplomatics communique between China and India contain the same window dressing of ancient civilization and Asia co-prosperity but it doesn't mean for a second that any of it figures into real-politik and how relations are actually carried out.

Race plays a role only in the forming of the 'us' and 'them' and that's not even hard and fast. They are more based on many more factor than race. There isn't going to be a race war of your imagining anytime soon.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

You have to understand why the countries you have mentioned distrust India and go out for Chinese assistance to build their infrastructure and military. India's foreign policy (regional) is a total failure. India is not trusted and respected by its neighbour, only because it believes in bullying.

Going out for Chinese assistance is obvious as its already an established economic and global power.

However yes,India policy isn't effective in SA like wise its neighbors as South Asia is matured or developed enough as of now.

 

[Nomenclature]

At the risk of being a party pooper, allow me to inject some common sense and a reality check into this superficial love-fest. I will phrase my questions to the Chinese members, but the mirror questions apply equally well to the Indian members.

- I see a lot of this fraternal feeling is based on a perceived mutual enmity of 'the white man', but what makes you think the Indian is any more trustworthy than the European? Surely it isn't based on some misplaced belief in Asian brotherhood -- not after what the Japanese, Chinese, Mongols, Cambodians, Indians, Arabs, etc. have all done to each other over the centuries.

- Whom exactly do you suppose the Indian military buildup is aimed at?

- There is almost no shared culture between China and India; they might as well be on separate continents.

- Anecdotal evidence about interaction with people from the other country is meaningless. Ordinary people are mostly decent, smart, hardworking, etc. from all countries. We are all human. It will have zero impact if there is a significant national security conflict between the nations.

- The only reason there hasn't been any significant clash of the two nations is purely an accident of history. The reason the Mongols spared India was because it was an insignificant backwater compared to the flourishing and rich Middle East.

- Geographically, there is absolutely nothing India can provide to China that it doesn't already get from Pakistan. In fact, considerably less, since alienating Pakistan will mean that China has to go the long way through the CARs to get to the Middle East. And neither Turkey nor Russia is going to let China get too comfortable in the CARs.

So, bottom line, China doesn't need India as an ally at all -- except to keep it from becoming a Western ally.

I agree with most you've said. Geopolitics is geopolitics and it will be decided on strategic interests and strategic interests alone.

South Korea is probably a good case for study, China and SK had a tremendous amount of grass-root level good will toward each other at the dawn of this century, and the cultural and economic ties between the two countries are far stronger than anything between China and North Korea (and probably stronger than anything China and India could ever develop). Yet much to South Koreans' charging China backed the North in the aftermath of the sinking of Choenan.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

The reason the Mongols spared India was because it was an insignificant backwater compared to the flourishing and rich Middle East.

India,Bharat,Hindustan,what ever, was rich majority of its history bro. And the Mongols in the form of the early Mughals did take over India. But the large Mongol empire was repelled.

"According to economic historian Angus Maddison in his book The World Economy: A Millennial Perspective, India had the world's largest economy from the first to eleventh century, and in the eighteenth century, with a (32.9&#37 share of world GDP in the first century to (28.9%) in 1000 AD, and in 1700 AD with (24.4%. "

There is almost no shared culture between China and India; they might as well be on separate continents.

There was through Buddhism. Many Chinese monks used to come to India to translate Sanskrit and Pali verse to Chinese.

The only reason there hasn't been any significant clash of the two nations is purely an accident of history.

It was because of the himalayas. Bharats natural borders are the Indus river, himalayas, Arakan Yoma, and the peninsula. No Indian empire passed the Himalayas.

Mughal

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

There was through Buddhism. Many Chinese monks used to come to India to translate Sanskrit and Pali verse to Chinese.

Also, Ancient Chinese literature was highly influenced by Indian culture and Buddhism in particular. The most well-known example is "Journey to the West", where Sun Wukong and a Buddhist monk travel West to India, in order to obtain sacred Buddhist scrolls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_to_the_west

The Japanese then took our idea of the Monkey King, and turned it into Dragon Ball. The main character even has the exact same name as Sun Wukong, 孫悟空 (the Japanese pronounce it as Son Goku).

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Also, Ancient Chinese literature was highly influenced by Indian culture and Buddhism in particular. The most well-known example is "Journey to the West", where Sun Wukong and a Buddhist monk travel West to India, in order to obtain sacred Buddhist scrolls.

Journey to the West - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Japanese then took our idea of the Monkey King, and turned it into Dragon Ball. The main character even has the exact same name as Sun Wukong, 孫悟空 (the Japanese pronounce it as Son Goku).

Wow, I had no Idea dragon ball was a copy of that. I loved that show!

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Wow, I had no Idea dragon ball was a copy of that. I loved that show!

Not the whole series, just the main character. Son Goku was based on the "Monkey King" Sun Wukong.

Son Goku - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No Indian empire passed the Himalayas.

No Indian empire passed through the Himalayas, but Indian "culture" certainly did.

In fact, most of my family is Buddhist, so there is the proof right there.

 

[Developereo]

No Indian empire passed through the Himalayas, but Indian "culture" certainly did.

In fact, most of my family is Buddhist, so there is the proof right there.

As others have pointed out, Buddhism is all but extinct within India itself. Yes, India passed Buddhism onto China and beyond, but it is not a shared culture any more.

It is like saying that the US and Iraq have a shared culture because the ancient Babylonian system of base-60 is still used by us (60 seconds, 60 minutes, 360 degrees, etc.)