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China needs not to be afraid of India.

India will never make the progress she needs because they are a democracy.

In India the population of entire China is crammed into a tiny area. People are literally living on top of each other and because of democracy the government can not build public transportation, universities etc.... for the people who do not want to move. India's population is going to keep growing making economic activities impossible. India is going to be the next Africa.
 
China needs not to be afraid of India.

India will never make the progress she needs because they are a democracy.

In India the population of entire China is crammed into a tiny area. People are literally living on top of each other and because of democracy the government can not build public transportation, universities etc.... for the people who do not want to move. India's population is going to keep growing making economic activities impossible. India is going to be the next Africa.

Everybody agrees.

Now go back and finish your homework before teacher kicks your backside.
 
The problems between India and China are more than just some fist fight over territotory or indoctrination or perspective. It goes to the very heart of how each country views itself.
a) CHina has always considered itself a sigle entity contuniously existing throughout the ages for thousands of years. Emipres/ Governments/ Ideologies change but the land is one, is always the same (growing & expanding) country. So areas which once paid tribute/ accepted the suzeerainty of the any chinese govt in the past is effectively chinese- no matter how distant in history that event may have been

b) India is a product of a more recent. May have existed as a civilization but as a geographical entity we welded our country through 'acquisitions'. So giving concessions on territory just becuase a few hundred years ago they accepted your paramountcy doesn't make sense

The territories in dispute now are Populated and India will never make a compromise on populated territories.

Dear Friend Cardsharp,

This interesting post by 'Guynextdoor' is an appropriate point at which to address you.

There are in fact three aspects of this relationship; all need to be understood, thereafter acted upon (praxis is important) before practical results will emerge.

There is first the emotional history; ethnographers call this myth.

You have brilliantly (on another thread) brought out this element, as it relates to the case of China and India, into the cold light of day for examination. It was a valuable insight. This determines how we think of ourselves, and how we view others.

There is second the actual history; this is usually not known, and participants only refer to it in the stupidest, coarsest terms. Which is a pity. While history does not 'instruct' the human race, it does offer us a picture of the past, and of what may have happened, in the most authenticated account possible, according to strict rules of evidence, which includes stating when these rules of evidence are breached.

In the case of China and India, the recent relationship between China and India has been discussed; the earlier history of the relationship between Tibet and India, and of the relationship between China and Tibet have never been discussed.

There is finally the political and diplomatic situation on the ground. This is influenced and formed, to some extent by the first two factors. We can always identify it and consider sensible ways of proposing solutions that the establishment of each country concerned might actually adopt, if it was inclined to.

In the case of India and China, this is the simplest part of the whole puzzle, and the answers are clear and happily solvable. All that gets in the way today is largely the effect of the myth.

I should like an opportunity some day to dwell on point two purely for your intellectual satisfaction.

With warm regards,
 
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"Everybody agrees."

@Joe Shearer
Thank you sir for raising the level of discussion and debate on so many topics on this forum.
Even in my "most deluded state", i have come away from many of them; in a singularly "better informed condition".
As for the fact that there are many buzzing insects around me; i am still willing to hazard walking into the jungles.
i hope that does not sound "too delusional".
Thanks and Cheers!
 
Why would China fear progress of others?

China needs not to be afraid of India.

India will never make the progress she needs because they are a democracy.

In India the population of entire China is crammed into a tiny area. People are literally living on top of each other and because of democracy the government can not build public transportation, universities etc.... for the people who do not want to move. India's population is going to keep growing making economic activities impossible. India is going to be the next Africa.
 
The problems between India and China are more than just some fist fight over territotory or indoctrination or perspective. It goes to the very heart of how each country views itself.
a) CHina has always considered itself a sigle entity contuniously existing throughout the ages for thousands of years. Emipres/ Governments/ Ideologies change but the land is one, is always the same (growing & expanding) country. So areas which once paid tribute/ accepted the suzeerainty of the any chinese govt in the past is effectively chinese- no matter how distant in history that event may have been

b) India is a product of a more recent. May have existed as a civilization but as a geographical entity we welded our country through 'acquisitions'. So giving concessions on territory just becuase a few hundred years ago they accepted your paramountcy doesn't make sense

The territories in dispute now are Populated and India will never make a compromise on populated territories.

"Everybody agrees."

@Joe Shearer
Thank you sir for raising the level of discussion and debate on so many topics on this forum.
Even in my "most deluded state", i have come away from many of them; in a singularly "better informed condition".
As for the fact that there are many buzzing insects around me; i am still willing to hazard walking into the jungles.
i hope that does not sound "too delusional".
Thanks and Cheers!

Dear Sir,

I make haste to place on record my appreciation of your even-tempered and balanced posts. If any of the pejoratives used mistakenly seemed directed at you, my most humble apologies.

This is far, very far from my intentions.

Some Pakistanis - it would be invidious to single out any, but I have to refer to sparklingway at least, although Agnostic Muslim and one or two others would hold their own in any company - some Indians, your good self prominently included, and these two gentlemen from China, Cardsharp (what a misleading nick!) and chauism, are refreshing, breaths of fresh air.

I write for this august company and its approbation, largely. A word of praise from them is worth the time I spend.

Sincerely,
 
I should like an opportunity some day to dwell on point two purely for your intellectual satisfaction.
With warm regards,
Nothing would please me more. After all, how can I pass up a chance for discourse with someone who writes like a poet and invokes the Greek muse of history.
a) CHina has always considered itself a sigle entity contuniously existing throughout the ages for thousands of years. Emipres/ Governments/ Ideologies change but the land is one, is always the same (growing & expanding) country. So areas which once paid tribute/ accepted the suzeerainty of the any chinese govt in the past is effectively chinese- no matter how distant in history that event may have been b) India is a product of a more recent. May have existed as a civilization but as a geographical entity we welded our country through 'acquisitions'. So giving concessions on territory just becuase a few hundred years ago they accepted your paramountcy doesn't make sense
This is true to a large extent. We Chinese have our shared myths about founding kings and dynasties that linger into the boundary between pre-history and history. This identity never faded or lost its vibrancy through the years. This is more than any political machanation is what I believe to be responsible for there being a single modern Chinese state. Invaders came and went ( and there were many of them) but they all suffer the same fate, cultural assimilation and the inevitable loss of their own identity.


There is second the actual history; this is usually not known, and participants only refer to it in the stupidest, coarsest terms. Which is a pity. While history does not 'instruct' the human race, it does offer us a picture of the past, and of what may have happened, in the most authenticated account possible, according to strict rules of evidence, which includes stating when these rules of evidence are breached.

The key here as with all history is to never depend on one source when possible and always, always be aware when someone is lying to you. There are many many historians today but fewer and fewer of them can be called honest. But we shouldn’t feel the need to lie because the truth can’t hurt us.


In the case of India and China, this is the simplest part of the whole puzzle, and the answers are clear and happily solvable. All that gets in the way today is largely the effect of the myth.

Myth and pride. For the myth are there to sooth our pride.
 
There are something other than history I have to point out, the more issues or problems we have among ourselves in Asia with each other, the more excuses others will have to meddle in our own affairs. Why should we give them the opportunities and pleasure of doing so? Divide and conquer is not a tactics that died with British colonism. It still exists in a very different form. I think everyone should seriously think about that before taking out on its own neighbours.
 
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@Joe Shearer,
"I make haste to place on record my appreciation of your even-tempered and balanced posts. If any of the pejoratives used mistakenly seemed directed at you, my most humble apologies. "

Sir,
Even in any state of utmost 'intoxication, delusion or adolescence' i would find it difficult, nay impossible to take offence at your views. And i'm indeed fortunate that there are many views on this forum that are helpful to keeping myself educated (including but not limited to names you mentioned). As for the more obtuse persons, its nice to see them sometimes; only because they make me feel more intelligent and intellectual than i actually am. And once in a while i get a chance to indulge in some verbal jousting.
But over the years, i have come to understand that plain stupidity carries no particular passport, nature has distributed it evenly across the globe. But to appreciate wisdom, i need to define stupidity; hence i'm willing to countenance it (to some extent).
i believe you are going 'off-air' for while; earnestly awaiting your return.
 
@Joe Shearer,
"I make haste to place on record my appreciation of your even-tempered and balanced posts. If any of the pejoratives used mistakenly seemed directed at you, my most humble apologies. "

Sir,
Even in any state of utmost 'intoxication, delusion or adolescence' i would find it difficult, nay impossible to take offence at your views. And i'm indeed fortunate that there are many views on this forum that are helpful to keeping myself educated (including but not limited to names you mentioned). As for the more obtuse persons, its nice to see them sometimes; only because they make me feel more intelligent and intellectual than i actually am. And once in a while i get a chance to indulge in some verbal jousting.
But over the years, i have come to understand that plain stupidity carries no particular passport, nature has distributed it evenly across the globe. But to appreciate wisdom, i need to define stupidity; hence i'm willing to countenance it (to some extent).
i believe you are going 'off-air' for while; earnestly awaiting your return.

Dear Sir,

With regard to the highlighted passage, may I request you to contact our mutual acquaintance, Toxic_pus, and get from him the relevant sentence from Mr. Frank Zappa's eloquent testimony before the United States Senate? It is relevant and meaningful. This suggestion is in case you have not already read it yourself and understood the vast beauty that lies behind.

Sincerely,
 
If combination of India+China+Russia become true so they can rule the world
 
But over the years, i have come to understand that plain stupidity carries no particular passport, nature has distributed it evenly across the globe.

Words of wisdom. There is no superior race, no God chosen people. I can't say with any seriousness Chinese people are better than Indians or vice-versa. But much of the wasted energy on PDF is aimed at precisely at establishing this "mine better than yours" idiocy.
 
"There is no superior race, no God chosen people. I can't say with any seriousness Chinese people are better than Indians or vice-versa. But much of the wasted energy on PDF is aimed at precisely at establishing this "mine better than yours" idiocy. "

@ CardSharp
Spot on ! Having had the opportunity to work (and live) in different parts of the world, let me share one personal experience. i was part of a programme to train young Chinese professional men. i ended up learning many things from them- especially the things that they were better at. Was that "because of the fact "they were Chinese or, "in spite of the fact" that they were Chinese? Neither. They were intelligent people, well motivated and entirely focused on getting better.
The Beginnings (and definitely not the end) of Learning.
 
Originally Posted by Joe Shearer View Post
"With regard to the highlighted passage, may I request you to contact our mutual acquaintance, Toxic_pus, and get from him the relevant sentence from Mr. Frank Zappa's eloquent testimony before the United States Senate? It is relevant and meaningful. This suggestion is in case you have not already read it yourself and understood the vast beauty that lies behind."

Thank you for sharing this reference. i must get get in touch with 'Toxic_pus'.
 

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