Chinese Air Force (PLAAF) News & Discussions

[Deino]

Sorry my friend, but then You have to look more carefully. All WS-10-version regardless the silver all black one have a characteristic inner movable ring, the AL-31 does not have. Also, the number of petals and their form is very different.

Esp. since that second image shows clearly an AL-31F !

Just look ..

Even more I'm sure, the J-10B IS in operational service with the AL-31FN s. 3 - simply since it is surely not worse than a AL_31FN-powered J-10A - ... but if You want to wait for the J-10C it's o.k.

Deino

 

[Beast]

Sorry my friend, but then You have to look more carefully. All WS-10-version regardless the silver all black one have a characteristic inner movable ring, the AL-31 does not have. Also, the number of petals and their form is very different.

Esp. since that second image shows clearly an AL-31F !

Just look ..

View attachment 265126


Even more I'm sure, the J-10B IS in operational service with the AL-31FN s. 3 - simply since it is surely not worse than a AL_31FN-powered J-10A - ... but if You want to wait for the J-10C it's o.k.

Deino

You do not have first hand knowledge of WS-10A. The video I post proves everything you say is wrong. Shall I trust a PLAAF pilot more or your words who can't even understand a single word of Chinese?

There are many variety of WS-10A. Some even outer exhaust appearance looks like AL-31 but it's not AL-31 engine. Same as the one on J-20. It is using domestic engine all the while.

 

[kungfugymnast]

View attachment 265111

The exhaust of WS-10A @Deino I do not see much different from AL-31F engine. It seems to be the black petal WS-10A and not the silvery WS-10A we usually seen. The petal looks shorter compare to AL-31F version. This black petal WS-10A is believed to be used on J-20 prototype powering it currently.

The pilot claimed J-11B is a beast, helping his squadron to attain Golden helmet for continuous 3 years. He also claim J-11B has strong capabilities for anti-ground, anti-sea and anti-air. It can carries variety of weaponery. The pilot also claimed he is extremely proud of his J-11B to be 100% with made in China including the WS-10A engine.

Looks like J-10A is pinned down badly since J-10B not able to attain operational service. J-10 boys need to wait for J-10C to enter service before reclaimed supremacy.

J-10 is meant to fill the light and small fighter category for replacing the old J-7. It is not from same category as J-11. Once WS10B engine is realized, the J10C would be mass produced replacing the obsolete J7 fleet. Because J10 saves more fuel, cheaper to build and less attention required on maintenance, expect to see more J-10C in PLAAF in future.

PLAAF now concentrates more on J11B/D and J16 because China is large country and it needs adequate long range fighter bomber to fulfill the need for primary defenses first. J10C is more for self defense and border patrol therefore it could wait and make way for J-11 fleet.

 

[Deino]

You do not have first hand knowledge of WS-10A. The video I post proves everything you say is wrong. Shall I trust a PLAAF pilot more or your words who can't even understand a single word of Chinese?

There are many variety of WS-10A. Some even outer exhaust appearance looks like AL-31 but it's not AL-31 engine. Same as the one on J-20. It is using domestic engine all the while.

Yes, I don't have, but I can think ! ... You instead trust a video so much regardless if they mix old and new images together in a report that You either don't want or cannot differ between "what a pilot says" (surely correct, but he's a pilot of a WS-10A-powered J-11BS) and additional images (not really correct, since they show an AL-31F-powered J-11B).

The problem simply is - and here it is a proof how less You understand the PLAAF's structure or individual units - that the 1. Fighter Division's 1. Air Regiment uses indeed J-11B (Block 01 powered by AL-31F) together with Su-27UBK but it gained a few additional (IMO 4 so far) J-11BS powered by the WS-10A.

And even worse, there are not so many different WS-10s out there with a few looking like an AL-31 and a few not. It simply makes no sense especially from the technical standpoint since You can't fit a nozzle from one engine simply to another one. Take a look at the Pratt Whitney F100-family. There are also several different, very different versions with lighter and darker pedals, with higher and lower thrust, usable for the F-16 and F-15, but they all have a very similar nozzle.

You are the one that really has no clue about engines especially if a statement does not fit Your opinion ....

Deino

 

[Beast]

Yes, I don't have, but I can think ! ... You instead trust a video so much regardless if they mix old and new images together in a report that You either don't want or cannot differ between "what a pilot says" (surely correct, but he's a pilot of a WS-10A-powered J-11BS) and additional images (not really correct, since they show an AL-31F-powered J-11B).

The problem simply is - and here it is a proof how less You understand the PLAAF's structure or individual units - that the 1. Fighter Division's 1. Air Regiment uses indeed J-11B (Block 01 powered by AL-31F) together with Su-27UBK but it gained a few additional (IMO 4 so far) J-11BS powered by the WS-10A.

And even worse, there are not so many different WS-10s out there with a few looking like an AL-31 and a few not. It simply makes no sense especially from the technical standpoint since You can't fit a nozzle from one engine simply to another one. Take a look at the Pratt Whitney F100-family. There are also several different, very different versions with lighter and darker pedals, with higher and lower thrust, usable for the F-16 and F-15, but they all have a very similar nozzle.

You are the one that really has no clue about engines especially if a statement does not fit Your opinion ....

Deino

ok, I admit the pilot did not mention Taihang name for the claimed domestic engine. Does that mean China are RE AL-31F engine all along? I am sure the pilot will not mix up his own plane using foreign import or domestic made engine. The reporter will also not mix up the photo since she already taken the pilot body with serial number and definitely take the photo of the exhaust. She will definitely use the same set of photo for her report.

When is the last time China import AL-31F engine?

 

[Deino]

You simply don't get it ?? I'm sure the pilot knows what he does and even more what he's allowed to tell ... but I'm also sure the reported who finished this report does not even has a clue what's a WS-10 or AL-31 and simply used wrong images. They mix images showing that pilot in front of his J-11BS in the outside with images showing a PL-12-armed J-11B in a shelter; they do not even care to add a J-11A armed with a R-77.

And how does it matters when China imported AL-31F the last time ??? They are still operational within sveral units including the 1. DFD as shown by no. '10320' which took part in the September parade together with BS '1032' and both use different engines.

Please such a video is done by a reporter and as such not really 100% correct even if CCTV is statemedia-controlled.

Deino

 

[Beast]

You simply don't get it ?? I'm sure the pilot knows what he does and even more what he's allowed to tell ... but I'm also sure the reported who finished this report does not even has a clue what's a WS-10 or AL-31 and simply used wrong images. They mix images showing that pilot in front of his J-11BS in the outside with images showing a PL-12-armed J-11B in a shelter; they do not even care to add a J-11A armed with a R-77.

And how does it matters when China imported AL-31F the last time ??? They are still operational within sveral units including the 1. DFD as shown by no. '10320' which took part in the September parade together with BS '1032' and both use different engines.

Please such a video is done by a reporter and as such not really 100% correct even if CCTV is statemedia-controlled.

Deino

View attachment 265201

View attachment 265202

Ok, I accept the reporter do make a mistake.

 

[Deino]

Thanks ... and please don't get me wrong !

Me too is more than eagerly awaiting a TH-powered, operational J-10B or C in service and I'm concerned, worried and most of all impatient why progress is/was so much delayed, why we don't hear or see the things we want to know, but if I've learned one thing while watching the PLA-matters all these years, there are often reasons behind we do not understand, decisions we don't have a clue either political or industrial ones; the PLA simply does not work like the Russian AF (who always says a lot and keeps only few) or the US ... and in mind of the collection of aircraft shown at the parade, this is simply such a decision: but only since the many Y-8-EW-types were not shown, including the new ASW type, does that mean they are not operational. If I'm not wrong, the Su-30MKK wasn't on show too ...

All the best,
Deino

 

[Beast]

but only since the many Y-8-EW-types were not shown, including the new ASW type, does that mean they are not operational. If I'm not wrong, the Su-30MKK wasn't on show too ...

All the best,
Deino

Su-30MKK is an imported product. Why would they bother to fly in Victory day? If you noticed, No foreign purchase/ imported aircraft or equipment are shown in V-day. J-10B if operational suppose to be the pride of China aviaition advancement with everything made in China except engine. But it did not shown up but instead led by J-10A. Only explanation is it has not even gain initial / small batch operation. PLAAF is not happy with its performance. They want J-10C

 

[Deino]

O.k. agreed ! ... but like You said they are maybe simply not fully operational due to all delay, due to being now only some sort of stepchild (which I don't think) but they are simply not at FOC but only IOC.

Anyway ... time will tell.

 

[nomi007]

any 1 share this video
看了“中国这些武器已是世界第一”后，好多汉奸高潮了...

-
陆军论坛
- 铁血社区

 

[Akasa]

A rough estimate of the number of modern PLA(N)AF fighter aircraft:

A typical PLAAF regiment consists of 28 aircraft.
A typical PLANAF regiment consists of 24 aircraft.

J-16:
- 28 aircraft per regiment X 1 regiment = 28 J-16

J-10:
- J-10A: 10 PLAAF regiments X 28 aircraft + 1 PLANAF regiments X 24 aircraft = 304 J-10A/S
- J-10B/C: 53 J-10B + 12 J-10C = 65 J-10B/C
Total: 304 + 65 = 369 J-10

J-15:
10 + 5 = 15 J-15

J-11B:
9 PLAAF regiments X 28 aircraft + 3 PLANAF regiments X 24 aircraft = 324 J-11B of all variants

J-11A:
- Su-27UBK/SK (imported): 24 + 26 + 28 = 78 Su-27UBK/SK
- J-11/A: 104
Total: 78 + 105 = 182 J-11/A and Su-27

Su-30:
- Su-30MKK: 38 per batch X 2 batches = 76 Su-30MKK
- Su-30MK2: 24
Total: 76 + 24 = 90 Su-30

JH-7:
- PLAAF: 120
- PLANAF: 120
Total: 240 JH-7

GRAND TOTAL:
324 + 182 + 369 + 15 + 90 + 240 + 28
= 1248 4/4.5th generation combat aircraft

Note:
- Older generation aircraft were not included
- Force multipliers (i.e. AEW/EW aircraft) were not included
- Numbers are likely to be even higher due to production

Aircraft currently in production:
- J-10C
- J-16
- J-15

 

[Beast]

A rough estimate of the number of modern PLA(N)AF fighter aircraft:

A typical PLAAF regiment consists of 28 aircraft.
A typical PLANAF regiment consists of 24 aircraft.

J-16:
- 28 aircraft per regiment X 1 regiment = 28 J-16

J-10:
- J-10A: 10 PLAAF regiments X 28 aircraft + 1 PLANAF regiments X 24 aircraft = 304 J-10A/S
- J-10B/C: 53 J-10B + 12 J-10C = 65 J-10B/C
Total: 304 + 65 = 369 J-10

J-15:
10 + 5 = 15 J-15

J-11B:
9 PLAAF regiments X 28 aircraft + 3 PLANAF regiments X 24 aircraft = 324 J-11B of all variants

J-11A:
- Su-27UBK/SK (imported): 24 + 26 + 28 = 78 Su-27UBK/SK
- J-11/A: 104
Total: 78 + 105 = 182 J-11/A and Su-27

Su-30:
- Su-30MKK: 38 per batch X 2 batches = 76 Su-30MKK
- Su-30MK2: 24
Total: 76 + 24 = 90 Su-30

JH-7:
- PLAAF: 120
- PLANAF: 120
Total: 240 JH-7

GRAND TOTAL:
324 + 182 + 369 + 15 + 90 + 240 + 28
= 1248 4/4.5th generation combat aircraft

Note:
- Older generation aircraft were not included
- Force multipliers (i.e. AEW/EW aircraft) were not included
- Numbers are likely to be even higher due to production

Aircraft currently in production:
- J-10C
- J-16
- J-15

You forget the J-8II/F. I believe estimate more than 200 of them still in service. They are longer legged than J-7G,more pylon for more weapons. More powerful radar compare to J-7G for BVR. They are no match for J-11B. But with datalink with AWACS, they can still be lethal for interceptor roles. Some are optimized for ground attack roles, capable of carrying JADM.

 

[Akasa]

You forget the J-8II/F. I believe estimate more than 200 of them still in service. They are longer legged than J-7G,more pylon for more weapons. More powerful radar compare to J-7G for BVR. They are no match for J-11B. But with datalink with AWACS, they can still be lethal for interceptor roles. Some are optimized for ground attack roles, capable of carrying JADM.

They don't combine BVR capability with WVR capability, and thus they'll have trouble facing modern 4th generation fighters.

 

[Daniel808]

A rough estimate of the number of modern PLA(N)AF fighter aircraft:

A typical PLAAF regiment consists of 28 aircraft.
A typical PLANAF regiment consists of 24 aircraft.

J-16:
- 28 aircraft per regiment X 1 regiment = 28 J-16

J-10:
- J-10A: 10 PLAAF regiments X 28 aircraft + 1 PLANAF regiments X 24 aircraft = 304 J-10A/S
- J-10B/C: 53 J-10B + 12 J-10C = 65 J-10B/C
Total: 304 + 65 = 369 J-10

J-15:
10 + 5 = 15 J-15

J-11B:
9 PLAAF regiments X 28 aircraft + 3 PLANAF regiments X 24 aircraft = 324 J-11B of all variants

J-11A:
- Su-27UBK/SK (imported): 24 + 26 + 28 = 78 Su-27UBK/SK
- J-11/A: 104
Total: 78 + 105 = 182 J-11/A and Su-27

Su-30:
- Su-30MKK: 38 per batch X 2 batches = 76 Su-30MKK
- Su-30MK2: 24
Total: 76 + 24 = 90 Su-30

JH-7:
- PLAAF: 120
- PLANAF: 120
Total: 240 JH-7

GRAND TOTAL:
324 + 182 + 369 + 15 + 90 + 240 + 28
= 1248 4/4.5th generation combat aircraft

Note:
- Older generation aircraft were not included
- Force multipliers (i.e. AEW/EW aircraft) were not included
- Numbers are likely to be even higher due to production

Aircraft currently in production:
- J-10C
- J-16
- J-15

Thanks for Your Estimate. That's Really Informative.

By the way, Aircraft Currently in Production, you said J-10C, J-16, and J-15.
How About J-11B?