Chinese air force among the most capable, analyst says

[中华人民共和&#]

J-11
The Shenyang J-11 (JianJiJi-11 or Jian-11, 歼击机-11 or 歼-11 in Chinese) with NATO reporting name: Flanker B+ is a single-seat, twin-engine jet fighter based on the Soviet-designed Sukhoi Su-27 (NATO reporting name: Flanker) air superiority fighter produced by the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation. The People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) of the People's Republic of China (PRC) is the sole operator of the aircraft.
In 1995, China secured a $2.5 billion production agreement which licensed China to build 200 Soviet-designed Sukhoi Su-27SK aircraft using Russian-supplied kits. Under the terms of the agreement, these aircraft would be outfitted with Russian avionics, radars and engines. However, only 95 of the original aircraft were delivered and the contact for the remaining 105 is still pending. It is believed that Russia cancelled the arrangement in 2006 after it discovered that China had reverse-engineered the technology and was developing an indigenous version, the J-11B. China however insists that it requested Russia to cease deliveries of the aircraft because it could no longer satisfy the PLAAF's requirements.[2] The J-11B variant while lacking the latest Russian features, does incorporate various Chinese modifications to the airframe in addition to the inclusion of Chinese avionics and weaponry.
Source-wikipedia


J-11 B
Russian sources also confirmed that SAC was pursuing a multirole variant of the J-11 designated J-11B with much greater Chinese-made content. At least three examples (#523, #524, and #525) of the J-11B have been delivered to the China Flight Test Establishment (CFTE) for flight test and evaluation since 2006. The aircraft was based on the Su-27SK/J-11 airframe, but with the following modifications:
An indigenous multifunctional pulse-Doppler fire-control radar reportedly capable of tracking 6~8 targets and engaging 4 of them simultaneously;(MKI BARS radar is far more powerful)
An indigenous digital flight-control system;
A Chinese copy of the Russian OEPS-27 electro-optic search and tracking system;
A strapdown INS/GPS navigation system;(included in MKI)
A ‘glass’ cockpit featuring four colour multifunctional displays (MFD) and a wide-angle holographic head-up display (HUD).(included in MKI)

Source-http://www.cctv.com/english/special/PLA_Air_Force_60_anni./20091111/103419.shtml

J-15(CARRIER BASED)

China's J-15 carrier-based fighter will not be able to compete with Russia's Su-33 fighter on global markets because it is inferior to the Russian aircraft, a Russian military analyst said on Friday.
China since 2001 has been developing the J-15 naval fighter, which is believed to be a clone of Russia's Su-33 Falcon-D. China bought an Su-33 prototype earlier from Ukraine, and used it to develop the new aircraft.
The J-15 is expected to be stationed initially onboard the Chinese Varyag aircraft carrier currently being fitted in the port of Dalian. China bought the unfinished Admiral Kuznetsov class aircraft carrier from Ukraine in 1998.
"The Chinese J-15 clone is unlikely to achieve the same performance characteristics of the Russian Su-33 carrier-based fighter, and I do not rule out the possibility that China could return to negotiations with Russia on the purchase of a substantial batch of Su-33s," said Col. (Ret.) Igor Korotchenko, a member of the Defense Ministry's Public Council.
The Su-33 is a carrier-based multi-role fighter, which can perform a variety of air superiority, fleet defense, air support and reconnaissance missions. The aircraft entered service with the Russian Navy in 1995 and are currently deployed on board the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier.
Korotchenko said China was unlikely to solve technical problems related to the design of the folding wings and to develop a reliable engine for the aircraft, although the first J-15 prototype reportedly made its maiden flight on August 31, 2009, powered by Chinese WS-10 turbofan engines.
China and Russia had been in negotiations on the sale of the Su-33 Flanker-D fighters to be used on future Chinese aircraft carriers since 2006, but the talks collapsed over China's request for an initial delivery of two aircraft for a "trial."
Russian Defense Ministry sources confirmed that the refusal was due to findings that China had produced its own copycat version of the Su-27SK fighter jet in violation of intellectual property agreements.
In 1995, China secured a $2.5-billion production license from Russia to build 200 Su-27SKs, dubbed J-11A, at the Shenyang Aircraft Corp.
The deal required the aircraft to be outfitted with Russian avionics, radars and engines. Russia cancelled the arrangement in 2006 after it discovered that China was developing an indigenous version, J-11B, with Chinese avionics and systems. The decision came after China had already produced at least 95 aircraft.
Last year, Russia refused again to sell the Su-33 to China even after Beijing had offered to buy 14 of them, saying that at least 24 jets should be sold to recoup production cost(to reverse engineer )

Source-http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20100604/159306694.html

So why were u trying to purchase Su-33 from Russia when u have already developed J-15


Next time before Trolling ,kindly do some research

OK, so the MKI has a heck of a load more RCS value than that on the J-11B, so that makes the J-11B more superior to the MKI by your logic...

Also, we study the blueprints of the original, and improve upon it in areas where better systems can be put in place. If it is so "easy" to do, why don't you do it? Sure you can save a lot of money and spend that to reduce the very high poverty rate in India, can't you?

 

[RAHUL INDIAN]

OK, so the MKI has a heck of a load more RCS value than that on the J-11B, so that makes the J-11B more superior to the MKI by your logic...

Also, we study the blueprints of the original, and improve upon it in areas where better systems can be put in place. If it is so "easy" to do, why don't you do it? Sure you can save a lot of money and spend that to reduce the very high poverty rate in India, can't you?

When u cant even develop the basic things on ur own...i mean u copied the basic things of the plane right...??? agreed to this point..???

coz without the original basic parts u could do nothing...ok accepted by even the Chinese... now how the heck u could develop more better parts for the remaining MORE ADVANCED STUFF...

what Chinese saying is like i could not even make a inferior version of Hard Disk of a laptop wihout copying, but u know i created the processor better then intel and so in my computer the hard disk is copied one but i improved upon the processor which is even better then intel........

 

[Mogambo]

Its all crap and BS. It just has biggest pool of outdated low quality junk. And its PLA Air Force not Air Force.

Most important thing they lack experience of a real war.

 

[Dr sim]

The sale of Phalcon was denied, so they developed one that was at least as capable and possibly even superior according to some officials.

now are u an insider in chinese military coz if they did not make it public how do u know how capable the radar actually is?

 

[indushek]

Everybody acting like kids comparing ur d.... sizes isn't going to get u anywhere

 

[Honor]

Everybody acting like kids comparing ur d.... sizes isn't going to get u anywhere

Woman says size is not important is lying!

 

[Frankenstein]

Ohh Chinese stop fighting, dont you see Indians are even Superior then USA

 

[SomeGuy]

When u cant even develop the basic things on ur own...i mean u copied the basic things of the plane right...??? agreed to this point..???

Not agreed.

J-11 was license produced.

Jian-11 (J-11, Flanker) Multirole Fighter Aircraft - SinoDefence.com

Pay particular attention to the bold text.
That implies that when the original contract was signed, Russia had no problems with PLAAF eventually using indigenous parts.

In 1992, China became the first non-CIS country to operate the Sukhoi Su-27 fighter. In 1995, Russian agreed in principle to allow the PRC to build the Su-27SK single-seat fighter locally under license. In 1996, Sukhoi Company (JSC) and SAC entered into a contract worth US$2.5 billion for the co-production of 200 Su-27SK fighters as the J-11. Under the terms of the agreement, Sukhoi/KnAAPO would supply the aircraft in kit form to be assembled in SAC. It was reported that Russia also agreed to help the PRC gradually increase the portion of Chinese-made content on the J-11, so that SAC could eventually produce the aircraft independently.

coz without the original basic parts u could do nothing...ok accepted by even the Chinese... now how the heck u could develop more better parts for the remaining MORE ADVANCED STUFF...

what Chinese saying is like i could not even make a inferior version of Hard Disk of a laptop wihout copying, but u know i created the processor better then intel and so in my computer the hard disk is copied one but i improved upon the processor which is even better then intel........

Firstly, the co-production agreement did not include the transfer of avionics and engine technologies, and the Chinese-built J-11 would have to continue relying on the Russian supply of these systems.

That quote implies that, other than engine and avionics, everything else (including airframe) was transfered.

Once you have the airframe design, you can work on improvements.

 

[SomeGuy]

now are u an insider in chinese military coz if they did not make it public how do u know how capable the radar actually is?

You're right, I don't know how capable the radar is, that's why I said:

The sale of Phalcon was denied, so they developed one that was at least as capable and possibly even superior according to some officials.

I didn't say "according to me".

 

[SomeGuy]

Its all crap and BS. It just has biggest pool of outdated low quality junk. And its PLA Air Force not Air Force.

Refer to my earlier post.
I already explained how there are over 900 fighters inducted since the 90's alone.

Most important thing they lack experience of a real war.

You obviously don't know history very well do you?!

Btw, for comparison, what "Real" wars have India been involved in?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Btw, for comparison, what "Real" wars have India been involved in?

India was beaten easily by China in 1962.

Even when we were so weak.... after WW2, after the Nationalist/Communist Civil War...

Now our Economy is FOUR times larger than the Indian economy. They had their chance to beat us when we were weak... now it's too late, the gap is too big.

 

[中华人民共和&#]

When u cant even develop the basic things on ur own...i mean u copied the basic things of the plane right...??? agreed to this point..???

coz without the original basic parts u could do nothing...ok accepted by even the Chinese... now how the heck u could develop more better parts for the remaining MORE ADVANCED STUFF...

what Chinese saying is like i could not even make a inferior version of Hard Disk of a laptop wihout copying, but u know i created the processor better then intel and so in my computer the hard disk is copied one but i improved upon the processor which is even better then intel........

Avionics are better in the J-11B than the original Su-27, agreed? Materials and composites in the airframe are better too, are they not? However, the SU-27's shape itself is proven over the decades thus it is still used, so overall, you should have a better system, agreed?

As for your analogy, it makes no sense, if you compare your analogy making with the development capabilities of DRDO, that puts them back to the stone age! As a matter of fact, I'm sure they are living in the stone age, afterall, which nation in this world which considers itself a "major player" buys most, if not all its military gear from foreign nations? (Hint: Starts with I, and rhymes with Cynthia).

Anyways, to counter your computer analogy, yes, I may take the standard layout of the pc(CPU, mobo, RAM, GPU, HDD etc) but take out the original CPU(Say, Core2Duo or Core2Quad) and slap in an Intel Core I7, or AMD PhenomII X4/X6. Now, I have something BETTER than the original, with MOST of the original intact! Yes, 83% is still there with only the CPU replaced, but I end up with having a upgraded system. This is the logic of computer building these days.

However, note the above is just an analogy and the J-11B is so much more than that, since it has replaced 90%+ of the original with just the husk, being from the original SU-27. Also, what was original wasn't freely given, as in the computer's case. Chinese engi's had to study the layout and understand the processes before re-building one for themselves. This is called reverse engineering, as we've discussed many times before, and not copying, in the case of the computer, since all I did was use the original, 1:1.

 

[中华人民共和&#]

Its all crap and BS. It just has biggest pool of outdated low quality junk. And its PLA Air Force not Air Force.

Oh really, if the AIF FORCE'S equipment is better than those of India's, then India's is really a trash heap then, isn't it

Most important thing they lack experience of a real war.

Pilots sent to Korea, Vietnam etc etc. How about India?

Oh btw, picking on Pakistan consistently doesn't count, it just shows how weak you guys are . India's so called Non-violence doctrine doesn't help, and as Ghandi once said:

It is better to be violent, than to use non-violence to cloak impotence.

 

[SBD-3]

When u cant even develop the basic things on ur own...i mean u copied the basic things of the plane right...??? agreed to this point..???

coz without the original basic parts u could do nothing...ok accepted by even the Chinese... now how the heck u could develop more better parts for the remaining MORE ADVANCED STUFF...

what Chinese saying is like i could not even make a inferior version of Hard Disk of a laptop wihout copying, but u know i created the processor better then intel and so in my computer the hard disk is copied one but i improved upon the processor which is even better then intel........