What's new

Chinese air force among the most capable, analyst says

J-11
The Shenyang J-11 (JianJiJi-11 or Jian-11, 歼击机-11 or 歼-11 in Chinese) with NATO reporting name: Flanker B+ is a single-seat, twin-engine jet fighter based on the Soviet-designed Sukhoi Su-27 (NATO reporting name: Flanker) air superiority fighter produced by the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation. The People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) of the People's Republic of China (PRC) is the sole operator of the aircraft.
In 1995, China secured a $2.5 billion production agreement which licensed China to build 200 Soviet-designed Sukhoi Su-27SK aircraft using Russian-supplied kits. Under the terms of the agreement, these aircraft would be outfitted with Russian avionics, radars and engines. However, only 95 of the original aircraft were delivered and the contact for the remaining 105 is still pending. It is believed that Russia cancelled the arrangement in 2006 after it discovered that China had reverse-engineered the technology and was developing an indigenous version, the J-11B. China however insists that it requested Russia to cease deliveries of the aircraft because it could no longer satisfy the PLAAF's requirements.[2] The J-11B variant while lacking the latest Russian features, does incorporate various Chinese modifications to the airframe in addition to the inclusion of Chinese avionics and weaponry.
Source-wikipedia


J-11 B
Russian sources also confirmed that SAC was pursuing a multirole variant of the J-11 designated J-11B with much greater Chinese-made content. At least three examples (#523, #524, and #525) of the J-11B have been delivered to the China Flight Test Establishment (CFTE) for flight test and evaluation since 2006. The aircraft was based on the Su-27SK/J-11 airframe, but with the following modifications:
An indigenous multifunctional pulse-Doppler fire-control radar reportedly capable of tracking 6~8 targets and engaging 4 of them simultaneously;(MKI BARS radar is far more powerful)
An indigenous digital flight-control system;
A Chinese copy of the Russian OEPS-27 electro-optic search and tracking system;
A strapdown INS/GPS navigation system;(included in MKI)
A ‘glass’ cockpit featuring four colour multifunctional displays (MFD) and a wide-angle holographic head-up display (HUD).(included in MKI)

Source-http://www.cctv.com/english/special/PLA_Air_Force_60_anni./20091111/103419.shtml

J-15(CARRIER BASED)

China's J-15 carrier-based fighter will not be able to compete with Russia's Su-33 fighter on global markets because it is inferior to the Russian aircraft, a Russian military analyst said on Friday.
China since 2001 has been developing the J-15 naval fighter, which is believed to be a clone of Russia's Su-33 Falcon-D. China bought an Su-33 prototype earlier from Ukraine, and used it to develop the new aircraft.
The J-15 is expected to be stationed initially onboard the Chinese Varyag aircraft carrier currently being fitted in the port of Dalian. China bought the unfinished Admiral Kuznetsov class aircraft carrier from Ukraine in 1998.
"The Chinese J-15 clone is unlikely to achieve the same performance characteristics of the Russian Su-33 carrier-based fighter, and I do not rule out the possibility that China could return to negotiations with Russia on the purchase of a substantial batch of Su-33s," said Col. (Ret.) Igor Korotchenko, a member of the Defense Ministry's Public Council.
The Su-33 is a carrier-based multi-role fighter, which can perform a variety of air superiority, fleet defense, air support and reconnaissance missions. The aircraft entered service with the Russian Navy in 1995 and are currently deployed on board the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier.
Korotchenko said China was unlikely to solve technical problems related to the design of the folding wings and to develop a reliable engine for the aircraft, although the first J-15 prototype reportedly made its maiden flight on August 31, 2009, powered by Chinese WS-10 turbofan engines.
China and Russia had been in negotiations on the sale of the Su-33 Flanker-D fighters to be used on future Chinese aircraft carriers since 2006, but the talks collapsed over China's request for an initial delivery of two aircraft for a "trial."
Russian Defense Ministry sources confirmed that the refusal was due to findings that China had produced its own copycat version of the Su-27SK fighter jet in violation of intellectual property agreements.
In 1995, China secured a $2.5-billion production license from Russia to build 200 Su-27SKs, dubbed J-11A, at the Shenyang Aircraft Corp.
The deal required the aircraft to be outfitted with Russian avionics, radars and engines. Russia cancelled the arrangement in 2006 after it discovered that China was developing an indigenous version, J-11B, with Chinese avionics and systems. The decision came after China had already produced at least 95 aircraft.
Last year, Russia refused again to sell the Su-33 to China even after Beijing had offered to buy 14 of them, saying that at least 24 jets should be sold to recoup production cost(to reverse engineer :rofl:)

Source-http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20100604/159306694.html

So why were u trying to purchase Su-33 from Russia when u have already developed J-15:hitwall::hitwall:


Next time before Trolling ,kindly do some research

answer in one line ->> photostate machines
 
.
The J-11B is not an exact clone of the Su-27SK, despite the commonly held view this is so. The airframe and engines can be considered to be 'cloned' but the systems are mostly unique to this variant.

Known differences include:

1. A Chinese IRST set located in the centreline position as with the OLS-27 in early Su-27S.

2. A planar array multimode radar which resembles the Phazotron Zhuk-27 series. It includes an IFF interrogator array.

3. An Onboard Oxygen Generator System (OBOGS). Only the most recent Russian variants have an OBOGS.

4. A unique glass cockpit design, with an asymmetric layout quite different from the Su-30MKK/MK2 and Su-27SMK.

5. An optical MAWS system claimed to operate in the UV band.

6. Dielectric panels on the stabilators not seen on any Russian variant.


The differences between the J-11B, Su-27SK and Su-27SMK are sufficiently great that this must be considered a unique offshoot of the Flanker family of fighters, not a subtype of the baseline Su-27SK/J-11A.


J-11B-Flanker-B-Systems-1S.jpg


J-11B-Cockpit-Prototype-1S.jpg


J-11B-Flanker-B-PLAAF-3S.jpg


Shenyang J-11B Sino-Flanker
 
.
.
Who know the developing for China?
J10 which was enlisted in the army five years ago than the miliaty began admit that they exately has J10.How you can know the lastest development .
su-33 although it can help us more quickly ,but we also can developed J15 without it .
China doesn't buy any su30 after 2004.and also in China most people acknowledge as the Russia standard which has 5 gen and USA standard just
has 4 gen.
 
.
REALITY CHECK

I do believe PLAAF can be a very potent force in future but right now it has many obsolete fighters.also I do not agree with the guy in the video when he says that Jf-17 are 3rd generation

The thread has nothing to do with India :what:
 
.
REALITY CHECK


YouTube - Indian air force (IAF) vs Chinese air force (PLAAF) - Part 1

I do believe PLAAF can be a very potent force in future but right now it has many obsolete fighters.also I do not agree with the guy in the video when he says that Jf-17 are 3rd generation

Call that a reality check?

Here's the real reality check:

  1. @ 0:33s

    J-7: The author assumes that because these look like MiG-21's that they're all obsolete.

    Reality: J-7E/G variants are relatively modern (J-7E inducted in the 1990's, J-7G in 2002-present)

    I'm not too sure on numbers but I would guesstimate that there are ~250 of these variants.

    Besides, don't you find it funny how the indian guy says the J-7 is obsolete then talks up IAF's own MiG-21.

  2. @ 0:40s

    J-8: The author claims again that these are all obsolete because they are MiG-21 lookalikes.

    Reality: The J-8(II) looks visibly different from a MiG-21 - anyone who can't see that is blind!!!

    The J-8F/H variants are relatively modern, entering service after 2002.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-8.htm

    The Jian-8IIM upgrader, co-developed by China and Russia, is the result of a thorough modernization of the F-8M fighter ("M" standing for export-only weaponry in China's weapon designation system) and has actually become a new-generation fighter plane. The first flight of this version was conducted on 31 March 1996. It features upgraded electronics systems, the lack of which has disadvantaged China's fighter planes for a long time.

    The twin-engine Jian-8IIM is claimed to be better equipped to survive damage than single-engine F-16A/C and Mirage 2000 series. The high-altitude high-speed performance of the Jian-8IIM is superior to the F-16A/C, F-18, and Mirage 2000; and its radar and electronic equipment are better than those of the F-16A and are similar to those of F-16C, F-18,and Mirage 2000-5. By using the new, powerful WP-13B engines, the Jian-8IIM fighter boasts greatly improved low-altitude maneuverability, which is slightly better than that of the F-18 and Mirage 2000-5, but still inferior to that of the F-16.

    In addition, the older B/D variants are being upgraded to F/H standards.

    Wikipedia says that there are ~180 J-8(II) in the PLAAF, so that should be a total of ~180 relatively modern J-8(II) for PLAAF.

    The author claims that a J-8D was lost whilst trying to shoot down an EP3 recon aircraft. - No, the pilot was just trying to turn them away.

  3. @ 1:13s

    J-10: Author says there are about 100, but I'm guessing it's more closer to >150 (300 J-10A planned). Just good target practice for MKI??

    Reality: Dream on.

    Lets not even talk about J-10B yet.

  4. @ 1:33s

    Flankers: The numbers he quotes seem to be correct i.e. 100 MKK/MKK2, 100 J-11/A, and 76 Su-27SK.

    He doesn't even mention the 2 squadrons (and counting) of J-11B however.

    That brings the Flanker fleet to well over 300 (and counting.....).

  5. @ 1:55s

    H-6: Yes the original Tu-16 was introduced by Russia in the 1950's.

    Reality: There are several modernised variants (D, G, H, M & K) with updated capabilities since the 80's and 90's and 00's.

    I'm beginning to think the author has no concept of variants, upgrades and modernisations etc.

  6. @ 2:00s

    JH-7/A: Author says that PLAAF doesn't operate JH-7, only PLANAF does.

    Reality: PLAAF has 1 regiment of JH-7A.

So if we just look purely at the planes inducted since the 1990's we have.....

Fighters: > 900 (and counting.....)
Bombers: ? Modernised H-6 variants, ? Modernised Q-5 variants, and at least 24 JH-7A
 
Last edited:
.
@Indian members
This thread has nothing to do with India.

SU-30 MKI's may have capabilities that are absent in JF-17,but it necessarily doesn't mean that in a dogfight SU-30 MKI might come as the winner.

Remember in 1965 aerial war Folland Gnats despite being a generation behind the superior PAF Sabre,were able to nettle them.

@ontopic
Good for China,but performance in real war is the best proof.
 
.
all are far below MKI

Because you obviously know about the capabilities of these planes before they're even officially disclosed and declassified. :hitwall:

Also, let's not forget that F-15, on paper, was "far below MKI", but look what happened at red flag.

J-11
The Shenyang J-11 (JianJiJi-11 or Jian-11, 歼击机-11 or 歼-11 in Chinese) with NATO reporting name: Flanker B+ is a single-seat, twin-engine jet fighter based on the Soviet-designed Sukhoi Su-27 (NATO reporting name: Flanker) air superiority fighter produced by the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation. The People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) of the People's Republic of China (PRC) is the sole operator of the aircraft.
In 1995, China secured a $2.5 billion production agreement which licensed China to build 200 Soviet-designed Sukhoi Su-27SK aircraft using Russian-supplied kits. Under the terms of the agreement, these aircraft would be outfitted with Russian avionics, radars and engines. However, only 95 of the original aircraft were delivered and the contact for the remaining 105 is still pending. It is believed that Russia cancelled the arrangement in 2006 after it discovered that China had reverse-engineered the technology and was developing an indigenous version, the J-11B. China however insists that it requested Russia to cease deliveries of the aircraft because it could no longer satisfy the PLAAF's requirements.[2] The J-11B variant while lacking the latest Russian features, does incorporate various Chinese modifications to the airframe in addition to the inclusion of Chinese avionics and weaponry.
Source-wikipedia

These were built under license (just like your MKI).
Kits are still being delivered as per the January 2010 Kanwa interview with Sukhoi.

Also,

J-11

In 1992, China became the first non-CIS country to operate the Sukhoi Su-27 fighter. In 1995, Russian agreed in principle to allow the PRC to build the Su-27SK single-seat fighter locally under license. In 1996, Sukhoi Company (JSC) and SAC entered into a contract worth US$2.5 billion for the co-production of 200 Su-27SK fighters as the J-11. Under the terms of the agreement, Sukhoi/KnAAPO would supply the aircraft in kit form to be assembled in SAC. It was reported that Russia also agreed to help the PRC gradually increase the portion of Chinese-made content on the J-11, so that SAC could eventually produce the aircraft independently.

The bold part kind of sounds like what J-11B is don't you think?

J-15(CARRIER BASED)

China's J-15 carrier-based fighter will not be able to compete with Russia's Su-33 fighter on global markets because it is inferior to the Russian aircraft, a Russian military analyst said on Friday.
China since 2001 has been developing the J-15 naval fighter, which is believed to be a clone of Russia's Su-33 Falcon-D. China bought an Su-33 prototype earlier from Ukraine, and used it to develop the new aircraft.
The J-15 is expected to be stationed initially onboard the Chinese Varyag aircraft carrier currently being fitted in the port of Dalian. China bought the unfinished Admiral Kuznetsov class aircraft carrier from Ukraine in 1998.
"The Chinese J-15 clone is unlikely to achieve the same performance characteristics of the Russian Su-33 carrier-based fighter, and I do not rule out the possibility that China could return to negotiations with Russia on the purchase of a substantial batch of Su-33s," said Col. (Ret.) Igor Korotchenko, a member of the Defense Ministry's Public Council.
The Su-33 is a carrier-based multi-role fighter, which can perform a variety of air superiority, fleet defense, air support and reconnaissance missions. The aircraft entered service with the Russian Navy in 1995 and are currently deployed on board the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier.
Korotchenko said China was unlikely to solve technical problems related to the design of the folding wings and to develop a reliable engine for the aircraft, although the first J-15 prototype reportedly made its maiden flight on August 31, 2009, powered by Chinese WS-10 turbofan engines.
China and Russia had been in negotiations on the sale of the Su-33 Flanker-D fighters to be used on future Chinese aircraft carriers since 2006, but the talks collapsed over China's request for an initial delivery of two aircraft for a "trial."
Russian Defense Ministry sources confirmed that the refusal was due to findings that China had produced its own copycat version of the Su-27SK fighter jet in violation of intellectual property agreements.
In 1995, China secured a $2.5-billion production license from Russia to build 200 Su-27SKs, dubbed J-11A, at the Shenyang Aircraft Corp.
The deal required the aircraft to be outfitted with Russian avionics, radars and engines. Russia cancelled the arrangement in 2006 after it discovered that China was developing an indigenous version, J-11B, with Chinese avionics and systems. The decision came after China had already produced at least 95 aircraft.
Last year, Russia refused again to sell the Su-33 to China even after Beijing had offered to buy 14 of them, saying that at least 24 jets should be sold to recoup production cost(to reverse engineer :rofl:)

Source-http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20100604/159306694.html

So why were u trying to purchase Su-33 from Russia when u have already developed J-15:hitwall::hitwall:


Next time before Trolling ,kindly do some research

I have doubts about that, I mean why purchase dated Russian carrier planes without even having a carrier to operate off?

The only lessons they could learn off Su-33 are structural modifications like folding wings and landing gear and hooks etc. Not beyond Chinese engineers to figure out.

Seems kind of suspicous reporting to me.
 
Last edited:
.
India has movie heroes like Rajinikanth and Vijay, who can jumpp in the air and kick any incoming missile back to where it came from . indian skies and land are safe because of the tamil super heroes.
 
.
Most of you guys are acting like children, you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Carry on gentlemen :cheers:
 
Last edited:
.
Dude J-15 is still under development, where as Su-30 MKI has been in service with IAF for nearly a decade which gives IAF a huge advantage.
Huge advantage in terms of what????? China has also been using SU-30MKM and J-11 for a decade now. and J-15 is flying means that it has finished its developmental phase is under testing. Furthermore, it will join PLAAF in one year. So dont dump the concern by saying "its in development"

Also SU-30 MKI comes with very advanced subsystems from France,Israel and SA to which China has no access to. After the recent upgrade with brahmos coming on board ,this plane is going to be a monster.
Chinese systems are also evolving and you never know the capabilities of their local systems cuz they dont make it public. they would have seen many of the Israeli avionics at least cuz I dont know whether you know or not that even JFT was tested with elta radar...;) and KJ-2000 also another example. well there can be one good scale is that they replaced most of the russian subsystems with better local systems. so their systems are advanced than the systems they got from Russia:coffee:
 
. .
Huge advantage in terms of what????? China has also been using SU-30MKM and J-11 for a decade now. and J-15 is flying means that it has finished its developmental phase is under testing. Furthermore, it will join PLAAF in one year. So dont dump the concern by saying "its in development"


Chinese systems are also evolving and you never know the capabilities of their local systems cuz they dont make it public. they would have seen many of the Israeli avionics at least cuz I dont know whether you know or not that even JFT was tested with elta radar...;) and KJ-2000 also another example. well there can be one good scale is that they replaced most of the russian subsystems with better local systems. so their systems are advanced than the systems they got from Russia:coffee:

You really do not know what u r talking about.
1. J-15 is not going to join PLAAF ever coz it is being developed for PLAN. It is supposed to be a carrier based fighter jet.:whistle:
2. The KJ-2000 development program started after the cancellation of the A-50I deal with Israel and Russia in July 2000, due to strong U.S. pressure and interference regarding the Israeli radar that was to be mounted(wikipedia)
So it is not that China had access to Israel radar but they did not choose it coz they had a superior one. This is the point I was trying to make that China does not have access to other countries' advanced technology due to USA pressure , their reverse engineering heritage etc
3.I know china does not make the capabilities of its weapon public. But I find it really amusing that People like u safely assume that since they are not making them public so they r better.:hitwall::hitwall:
It could also be the case that they r ashamed of making them public since their weapons do not compare to those of USA and Russia
 
.
no, nothing we people r nothing when compared to Chuinese copy paste techniques :smokin:

Well even if they copy paste. Most important thing is that they can do it. You aren't capable or worthy enough to even copy paste properly.
:disagree:
 
.
2. The KJ-2000 development program started after the cancellation of the A-50I deal with Israel and Russia in July 2000, due to strong U.S. pressure and interference regarding the Israeli radar that was to be mounted(wikipedia)
So it is not that China had access to Israel radar but they did not choose it coz they had a superior one. This is the point I was trying to make that China does not have access to other countries' advanced technology due to USA pressure , their reverse engineering heritage etc

The sale of Phalcon was denied, so they developed one that was at least as capable and possibly even superior according to some officials.
 
.

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom