LKJ86
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It is impossible, until SAC's J-XX or others are in mass production.
Chinese Aero Engine information thread
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ZeEa5KPul
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"Impossible" is a strong word. I don't see what SAC's J-XX has to do with CAC's production, could you explain what you mean? I expect CAC to stop producing J-10s around 2023, certainly no later than 2025.
siegecrossbow
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You greedy man. Don’t you know what this means? J-10, after one and a half decade, has finally entered service with the original designated engine! This is almost like a belated wedding and certainly cause for great celebration!
This will also pave the way for J-10C export. Now that the single engines variant of WS-10 has been equipped on the J-10, it demonstrates confidence in domestic engine and best of all, China could produce as many fighters as it wants.
LKJ86
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SAC's J-XX does have to do with CAC's production.
LKJ86
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samsara
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军工记忆·强健战鹰“中国心”：披荆斩棘！探秘中国航空发动机发展历程 「国防故事」| 军迷天下
本期节目主要内容：航空发动机被誉为“飞机的心脏”，在航空领域中所取得的每一次重大的革命性进展，无不与航空发动机的技术突破和进步密切相关。中国航空发动机的研制是在新中国成立后，在一片空白的基础上发展起来的。从最初的仿制、改进、改型到现在可以独立设计制造高性能航空发动机，一路走来披荆斩棘。
Exploring the development history of China's AERO-ENGINES 「National Defense Story」
The main content of this program: The AERO-ENGINE is known as the "heart of aircraft". Every major revolutionary progress in the Aviation field is closely related to the technological breakthrough and progress of the aero-engine. After the founding of New China, the research and development of aero-engine in China was based on a blank alias the "ground zero". From the initial imitation, improvement, modification to now can independently design and manufacture *high-performance aero-engine*, all the way through.
Published on 23 May 2021 (No Engsub)
samsara
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China’s J-10 comes of age with indigenous engine
By Greg Waldron | FlightGlobal - 21 May 2021
The recent appearance of an operational Chengdu J-10C powered by a domestically produced engine marks a key moment for the single-engined type in the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF).
As with so much in Chinese airpower, much of the J-10’s history is shrouded in mystery. It is understood that the type, which originated in the 1980s, traces its lineage to the J-9, a canard/delta fighter that was abandoned in 1980. It is also believed that the J-10 benefited from the 1980s Israel Aircraft Industries Lavi programme.
Source: Chinese social media
The first clear image of an operational J-10C with a WS-10 engine
The fighter was regarded as a state secret until January 2007, when official media finally disclosed that it had entered PLAAF service. A few months later, in May 2007, Russia’s Rosoboronexport arms agency announced a $300 million deal to sell 100 Saturn AL-31 engines for China’s planned J-10 fleet. Then, in late 2008, the J-10A made its public debut at Airshow China in Zhuhai.
Since that time, the AL-31 has been the key powerplant for all variants of the J-10, from the original J-10As to the far more advanced J-10Cs. Beijing always had plans for the J-10 to receive a local powerplant, the Shenyang WS-10 Taihang, but the challenges involved in developing aircraft engines forced it to stick with the Russian powerplant longer than planned.
Finally, in early May [2021], it became clear that a corner had been turned: a J-10C in an operational unit was spotted with the WS-10.
As is typical for significant Chinese defence developments, there was no official statement. Rather, a clear image of an operational J-10C with the WS-10 appeared on social media. Beijing’s Global Times also covered a Chinese television report about the appearance of the WS-10-powered J-10C.
Andreas Rupprecht is the author of Modern Chinese Warplanes, an authoritative guide to mainland airpower. He was among the first observers to highlight the new development. He feels the J-10C news is highly significant.
“This cannot be overrated, and in fact is a true milestone not only for the J-10, but even more for the WS-10 programme since it marks an end of the reliance on the Russian AL-31 for all three major PLAAF fighters – at least production examples – namely the J-10C, [Shenyang] J-16 and [Chengdu] J-20,” he says.
He notes that a decade has passed since the J-10B first flew with a WS-10, and that the engine was tested on a J-10A even earlier. Finally, after years of refinement, it appears that the WS-10 is reliable and safe enough to power a single-engined fighter in active service.
Mounted inside the J-10, the WS-10 can be identified by a few subtle features. One is that the afterburner nozzle petals are notably wider on the WS-10 than on the AL-31. The WS-10 also has a ring structure around the interior of the nozzle that is absent on the AL-31. In images at least, the sheen of the alloy used on the WS-10 nozzle is also somewhat lighter than for the Russian engine.
Source: Chinese social media - 解放军报
A WS-10 powered J-10C taking off
The engine’s appearance with a J-10C continues the long development history of the J-10 programme from the somewhat rudimentary J-10A.
The J-10A, which is flown by China’s August 1st aerobatic display team, can be distinguished from later variants by the rectangular intake that is not flush with the fuselage. The variant was produced until late 2014, when production switched to the J-10B. The J-10As, however, have received updates, including the ability to carry the PL-10 infrared-guided missile.
The J-10B, distinguished by a diverterless supersonic inlet, offers several improvements over the J-10A. These include an infrared search and track sensor, glass cockpit avionics, and a passive electronically scanned array radar. The J-10B was officially unveiled at 2016’s Airshow China, appearing in the static park with the PL-12 beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile. At the 2018 show, a J-10B testbed appeared in the flying display using a WS-10 thrust vector control engine.
The most advanced J-10 variant is the J-10C, which first appeared in a parade in August 2017. While largely identical to the J-10B, it can be distinguished by its slightly different tail, which slopes down from a point – the top of the J-10B’s tail is square. The fighter is equipped with an active electronically scanned array radar [AESA] and an updated cockpit. It carries a broader array of weapons, including the long-range PL-15 air-to-air missile, which is believed to have a range greater than 107nm (200km).
The J-10 family also has a two-seat trainer variant, the J-10S, a derivative of the original J-10A.
Irrespective of whether international sales emerge, the J-10 will be a key fighter in Chinese service through the 2020s, adding force numbers and supporting larger types such as the J-16 and J-20. The arrival of WS-10-powered J-10Cs in operational units marks a critical inflection point in the programme’s development, as well as the growing maturity and confidence of China’s aerospace sector.
www.flightglobal.com
Read also:
PLA’s J-10C fighter makes training debut with domestically made engine: reports
By Liu Xuanzun | Global Times
Published: May 13, 2021 09:18 PM
A J-10C fighter jet equipped with a domestically developed WS-10 Taihang engine reportedly made its first public appearance in a live-fire training session after entering service with the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force.
This could be an indication that the engine is now technically stable, reliable and mature, analysts said on Thursday.
One of the photos attached to the report showed a J-10C fighter jet seemingly equipped with a domestically developed Taihang engine, instead of previously used Russian-made AL-31, EASTDAY.com, a Shanghai-based news website, reported on Wednesday (12 May).
This is the public debut of the Taihang engine-equipped J-10C since it has entered PLA Air Force service, EASTDAY.com said.
The J-10C is an aircraft that has been produced in large batches. So if it is now using the Taihang engine, it could be an indication that this version has also been delivered to the PLA in numbers, Wang Ya'nan, chief editor of Beijing-based Aerospace Knowledge magazine, told the Global Times on Thursday.
In March 2020, a J-10C with a Taihang engine was spotted in a video released by the aircraft's developer, leading analysts to say at the time that the fighter jet was about to be commissioned.
Other PLA fighter jets like the J-11B and J-16 started to use Taihang engines earlier, with one of the reasons being that they are twin-engined, meaning less risk of accident, but the J-10C only uses one engine, so the engine must be reliable, according to analysts.
The original J-10C with a Russian engine made its first public appearance at a military parade in late July 2017 celebrating the 90th founding anniversary of the PLA, and started combat alert missions in April 2018, thepaper.cn reported at the time.
For the next step, China is expected to develop more advanced engines with larger thrust-to-weight ratios, longer service life, more efficient maintenance standards and intelligent control technologies to fit the needs of new-generation aircraft, Wang said.
China's most advanced stealth fighter jet, the J-20, is expected to be upgraded with 2D thrust vectoring nozzles for its engines, said Li Gang, the pilot of the J-20's first flight, when asked about his expectations on the future development of the J-20's thrust vector control capability in an interview with Hong Kong-based Phoenix TV in April.
By Greg Waldron | FlightGlobal - 21 May 2021
The recent appearance of an operational Chengdu J-10C powered by a domestically produced engine marks a key moment for the single-engined type in the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF).
As with so much in Chinese airpower, much of the J-10’s history is shrouded in mystery. It is understood that the type, which originated in the 1980s, traces its lineage to the J-9, a canard/delta fighter that was abandoned in 1980. It is also believed that the J-10 benefited from the 1980s Israel Aircraft Industries Lavi programme.
Source: Chinese social media
The first clear image of an operational J-10C with a WS-10 engine
The fighter was regarded as a state secret until January 2007, when official media finally disclosed that it had entered PLAAF service. A few months later, in May 2007, Russia’s Rosoboronexport arms agency announced a $300 million deal to sell 100 Saturn AL-31 engines for China’s planned J-10 fleet. Then, in late 2008, the J-10A made its public debut at Airshow China in Zhuhai.
Since that time, the AL-31 has been the key powerplant for all variants of the J-10, from the original J-10As to the far more advanced J-10Cs. Beijing always had plans for the J-10 to receive a local powerplant, the Shenyang WS-10 Taihang, but the challenges involved in developing aircraft engines forced it to stick with the Russian powerplant longer than planned.
Finally, in early May [2021], it became clear that a corner had been turned: a J-10C in an operational unit was spotted with the WS-10.
As is typical for significant Chinese defence developments, there was no official statement. Rather, a clear image of an operational J-10C with the WS-10 appeared on social media. Beijing’s Global Times also covered a Chinese television report about the appearance of the WS-10-powered J-10C.
Andreas Rupprecht is the author of Modern Chinese Warplanes, an authoritative guide to mainland airpower. He was among the first observers to highlight the new development. He feels the J-10C news is highly significant.
“This cannot be overrated, and in fact is a true milestone not only for the J-10, but even more for the WS-10 programme since it marks an end of the reliance on the Russian AL-31 for all three major PLAAF fighters – at least production examples – namely the J-10C, [Shenyang] J-16 and [Chengdu] J-20,” he says.
He notes that a decade has passed since the J-10B first flew with a WS-10, and that the engine was tested on a J-10A even earlier. Finally, after years of refinement, it appears that the WS-10 is reliable and safe enough to power a single-engined fighter in active service.
Mounted inside the J-10, the WS-10 can be identified by a few subtle features. One is that the afterburner nozzle petals are notably wider on the WS-10 than on the AL-31. The WS-10 also has a ring structure around the interior of the nozzle that is absent on the AL-31. In images at least, the sheen of the alloy used on the WS-10 nozzle is also somewhat lighter than for the Russian engine.
Source: Chinese social media - 解放军报
A WS-10 powered J-10C taking off
The engine’s appearance with a J-10C continues the long development history of the J-10 programme from the somewhat rudimentary J-10A.
The J-10A, which is flown by China’s August 1st aerobatic display team, can be distinguished from later variants by the rectangular intake that is not flush with the fuselage. The variant was produced until late 2014, when production switched to the J-10B. The J-10As, however, have received updates, including the ability to carry the PL-10 infrared-guided missile.
The J-10B, distinguished by a diverterless supersonic inlet, offers several improvements over the J-10A. These include an infrared search and track sensor, glass cockpit avionics, and a passive electronically scanned array radar. The J-10B was officially unveiled at 2016’s Airshow China, appearing in the static park with the PL-12 beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile. At the 2018 show, a J-10B testbed appeared in the flying display using a WS-10 thrust vector control engine.
The most advanced J-10 variant is the J-10C, which first appeared in a parade in August 2017. While largely identical to the J-10B, it can be distinguished by its slightly different tail, which slopes down from a point – the top of the J-10B’s tail is square. The fighter is equipped with an active electronically scanned array radar [AESA] and an updated cockpit. It carries a broader array of weapons, including the long-range PL-15 air-to-air missile, which is believed to have a range greater than 107nm (200km).
The J-10 family also has a two-seat trainer variant, the J-10S, a derivative of the original J-10A.
Irrespective of whether international sales emerge, the J-10 will be a key fighter in Chinese service through the 2020s, adding force numbers and supporting larger types such as the J-16 and J-20. The arrival of WS-10-powered J-10Cs in operational units marks a critical inflection point in the programme’s development, as well as the growing maturity and confidence of China’s aerospace sector.
China’s J-10 comes of age with indigenous engine
The recent appearance of an operational Chengdu J-10C powered with a domestically made engine marks a key moment for the single-engined type in the Peoples' Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF).
www.flightglobal.com
Read also:
PLA’s J-10C fighter makes training debut with domestically made engine: reports
By Liu Xuanzun | Global Times
Published: May 13, 2021 09:18 PM
A J-10C fighter jet equipped with a domestically developed WS-10 Taihang engine reportedly made its first public appearance in a live-fire training session after entering service with the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force.
This could be an indication that the engine is now technically stable, reliable and mature, analysts said on Thursday.
One of the photos attached to the report showed a J-10C fighter jet seemingly equipped with a domestically developed Taihang engine, instead of previously used Russian-made AL-31, EASTDAY.com, a Shanghai-based news website, reported on Wednesday (12 May).
This is the public debut of the Taihang engine-equipped J-10C since it has entered PLA Air Force service, EASTDAY.com said.
The J-10C is an aircraft that has been produced in large batches. So if it is now using the Taihang engine, it could be an indication that this version has also been delivered to the PLA in numbers, Wang Ya'nan, chief editor of Beijing-based Aerospace Knowledge magazine, told the Global Times on Thursday.
In March 2020, a J-10C with a Taihang engine was spotted in a video released by the aircraft's developer, leading analysts to say at the time that the fighter jet was about to be commissioned.
Other PLA fighter jets like the J-11B and J-16 started to use Taihang engines earlier, with one of the reasons being that they are twin-engined, meaning less risk of accident, but the J-10C only uses one engine, so the engine must be reliable, according to analysts.
The original J-10C with a Russian engine made its first public appearance at a military parade in late July 2017 celebrating the 90th founding anniversary of the PLA, and started combat alert missions in April 2018, thepaper.cn reported at the time.
For the next step, China is expected to develop more advanced engines with larger thrust-to-weight ratios, longer service life, more efficient maintenance standards and intelligent control technologies to fit the needs of new-generation aircraft, Wang said.
China's most advanced stealth fighter jet, the J-20, is expected to be upgraded with 2D thrust vectoring nozzles for its engines, said Li Gang, the pilot of the J-20's first flight, when asked about his expectations on the future development of the J-20's thrust vector control capability in an interview with Hong Kong-based Phoenix TV in April.
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dbc
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Polestar 2
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China aeroengine still got long way to go to match US. From 20:15 min to 20:25min, the representative of Chinese aeroengine say "China aeroengine has reach operation status but it still has shortcoming. Still it reach acceptable level for units." And most likely, we are talking about WS-10 engine which an engine level the western has long master 15 years ago.
From such sentence, you can sense some major shortcoming of our Chinese engine. Barely make it to be acceptance by units. I believe short long span maybe the major one.
I think he was talking about earlier models of the WS10. WS10 had problems of low reliability and short service life in its early days.However, the performance of WS10 and AL31 should be the same, otherwise it is not possible to use them together for testing.
somewhere your name will be quotedPolestar 2
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I don't think so. If the problem is solved. Why mention it again? Or he would have say earlier version gives problem.
Given the extremely slow progress of WS-10 Taihang engine. More likely problem still exist and they are barely accepted.
Because this interview is introducing the J11B with WS10 installed, becoming the first fully domestically produced aircraft. This paragraph introduces the meaning of WS10.
That is, although WS10 still has some problems, it can at least replace AL31.For the first time, China has produced engines of the same level as Russia.Both the J11B and WZ10 were weapons that first flew at least 15 years ago. I think the confidentiality period of Chinese equipment is at least 15 years.Therefore, there is no mention of the TVC version of J10B, the version of J10C, and the enhanced version of J20.
Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen
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Currently China is second best in the world after the US in fighter jet engine. WS-10B matches GE but still falls short of PW. PW engine in F-22 / 35 is monster compared to GE engine in F-15E. Should take about 5 more years to catch up to PW when WS-15 is ready.
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