China's nuclear warheads should match the US and Russia

[mDumb]

<Japan is the world's second-largest economy and the second-most technologically-advanced country. I think it borders on the ridiculous to claim that Russia can beat the modern Japanese military in a conventional war.>

If I have to bet my money on the war between Russia and Japan conventionally (without Russia using nuclear blackmail) I would bet on Japan.

All Asian brothers including Indians should be proud as Asians for what Japan did to Russia in Russo-Japanese war (1904-1905).

Japan was the first Asian power in modern times to defeat a European power. The victorious Japan stopped Russia from its expansionist policy in the Far East.

 

[Imran Khan]

10 warheads are much much for any country

 

[Martian2]

I hope people understand that I'm not pro-Japanese. However, if the Japanese have a powerful, technologically-advanced, and professional military, it is self-deception to believe otherwise.

Earlier, someone mentioned Russian S-300s or S-400s. The Japanese can use electronic counter-measures or attack the S-300s or S-400s with anti-radiation missiles.

In any case, the Japanese have an economy that is four times Russia's. When the Japanese gear up for full-scale conventional war, it will be very scary.

Here's the present situation. I don't think any country, except for the United States, can confidently claim that they can defeat the Japanese military. China would think long and hard before unnecessarily tangling with that monster. I honestly believe that the Japanese will defeat Russia in a conventional war. Russia is a pale shadow of the old Soviet Union.

The good news is that Russia has nuclear weapons and there won't be a conventional war between Russia and Japan over the Northern Territories/Kuril Islands. Also, Japan is under the American nuclear umbrella and no one will use nuclear weapons on Japan.

Finally, the Russians will never give back the Kuril Islands to the Japanese because of political reasons/near-impossibility. The Japanese will always hold a grudge against the Russians for keeping/occupying the Northern Territories. This is the ideal geo-strategic situation. Russia and Japan will always hate/dislike each other and there is no chance that the two countries will ever cooperate and gang up on China. Thank God for four stupid rocks in the ocean called Northern Territories/Kuril Islands. The world is beautiful.

 

[below_freezing]

i did some research on japan's air force and navy. you're making them to be way way way better than they actually are.

first, there is no japanese "technology" in the japanese military, it is all US technology. its F-15's were built with handholding from the US, and its F-2 is just a copy of the F-16. it still has over 100 F-4s from 1960 in service. what's telling is that the F-15 was never upgraded by Japan, but instead by the US.

Japan cannot manufacture missiles. all their missiles are supplied by the US. the US has purposely not supplied ground attack missiles to japan. to create a missile takes significant time and research; even the UK cannot produce long range air to air missiles anymore.

it's ship to ship capabilities and anti-surface strike capabilities are nearly zero. the harpoon on the kongo isn't even comparable to the P-270 Moskit, and japan have less of those.

electronic countermeasures is a blanket statement that is essentially, meaningless. everyone uses electronic countermeasures. there are lots of electronic counter measures that can be employed by both sides. turning off the radar when the missile is detected and driving the radar car to a new place, then turning it back on to maintain lock is one that can be done by SAM crews. in fact, most modern SAMs can shoot down missiles directed at it.

they have zero ground attack cruise missiles. this is a major weakness. in any war, how are they going to strike russia's major centers never even mention china? while every one of our destroyers and frigates has at least 8 land attack cruise missiles with 2000 km+ ranges. same with the oscar, one oscar can bombard japan's northern cities from the bering strait with 100+ cruise missiles and japan would be powerless to stop that without the help of the US.

you're far overrating the japanese military. in a real war they would not stand a chance without the aid of the US.

 

[Martian2]

i did some research on japan's air force and navy. you're making them to be way way way better than they actually are.

first, there is no japanese "technology" in the japanese military, it is all US technology. its F-15's were built with handholding from the US, and its F-2 is just a copy of the F-16. it still has over 100 F-4s from 1960 in service. what's telling is that the F-15 was never upgraded by Japan, but instead by the US.

Japan cannot manufacture missiles. all their missiles are supplied by the US. the US has purposely not supplied ground attack missiles to japan. to create a missile takes significant time and research; even the UK cannot produce long range air to air missiles anymore.

it's ship to ship capabilities and anti-surface strike capabilities are nearly zero. the harpoon on the kongo isn't even comparable to the P-270 Moskit, and japan have less of those.

electronic countermeasures is a blanket statement that is essentially, meaningless. everyone uses electronic countermeasures. there are lots of electronic counter measures that can be employed by both sides. turning off the radar when the missile is detected and driving the radar car to a new place, then turning it back on to maintain lock is one that can be done by SAM crews. in fact, most modern SAMs can shoot down missiles directed at it.

they have zero ground attack cruise missiles. this is a major weakness. in any war, how are they going to strike russia's major centers never even mention china? while every one of our destroyers and frigates has at least 8 land attack cruise missiles with 2000 km+ ranges. same with the oscar, one oscar can bombard japan's northern cities from the bering strait with 100+ cruise missiles and japan would be powerless to stop that without the help of the US.

you're far overrating the japanese military. in a real war they would not stand a chance without the aid of the US.

First point, Japanese do have an advanced technological base. The only question is whether they are willing to build their war machine in an age of nuclear weapons. Click on the newslink to read the extensive article by Richard Fisher, Jr. on "Japanese Military Technology Advances."

Second point, Japanese have access to the best American technology, short of F-22 and that may only be a matter of time. Only the Japanese have access to American SM-3 Blk 1A missiles for sea-based ballistic missile defense. In the video, the narrator says "Japan will become the second country to possess an upper-tier ballistic missile defense capability with the ability to intercept threats well-above the Earth's atmosphere."

I think it is a mistake to under-rate Japan, which has the world's second-largest fleet of Aegis-class destroyers. The Japanese have their own advanced military technology and access to the best American military technology, except for F-22. If Japan chooses to ramp up their military, I don't see how anyone can stop them conventionally, except for the United States. Through American assistance, Japan is arguably the world's second-most advanced military (e.g. second-largest Aegis fleet with SM-3 Blk-1A interceptors for sea-based ballistic-missile-defense).

International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > Japanese Military Technology Advances

"Japanese Military Technology Advances

by Richard Fisher, Jr.
Published on December 6th, 2007
ARTICLES

On November 7 and 8 in Tokyo, the Japanese Defense Ministry&#8217;s Technical Research and Development Institute (TRDI) held a briefing on its new programs, which was accompanied by a small display of many of these same programs. Currently led by Director General Dr. Yasue Masahiro, TRDI traces its origins to the National Safety Agency&#8217;s Research and Development Center, founded in 1952. TRDI is responsible for developing all of Japan&#8217;s indigenous weapon systems in cooperation with Japan&#8217;s defense companies. Though it has wide responsibilities, TRDI only has 1,135 formal employees, and its 2007 budget of about $1.5 billion marks a nearly 7.5 percent decline from its 2006 budget.

While Japan has remained largely dependent on imported American technology for major weapon systems since the 1950s, through the work of TRDI Japan has also succeeded in building a modern domestic defense industry dedicated to meeting Japan&#8217;s specific requirements. Recent TRDI successes include the new Kawasaki-built P-X four-turbofan engine maritime patrol aircraft with a TRDI designed high-bypass turbofan engine, and the new 30-ton capacity C-X twin-turbofan military transport. While the TRDI-designed &#8220;indigenous&#8221; Mitsubishi F-2 fighter has been marred by controversy, issues of U.S. intervention and a reduced purchase order, it did demonstrate TRDI&#8217;s capacity to design a 4th generation fighter and develop new technologies like advanced composite structures and active phased array radar.

In marked contrast to China&#8217;s People&#8217;s Liberation Army (PLA), which provides no official public information on its future advanced weapons development programs, Japan&#8217;s TRDI provides regular updates on its activities on the Defense Ministry&#8217;s web page, publishes literature on its future research and holds occasional briefings. The November briefings and displays were also accompanied by the release of two new brochures which offered insights into the direction of Japan&#8217;s ability to apply new advanced technologies to the challenges of defense."

 

[below_freezing]

i'm still not seeing how the AEGIS has anything to do with Japan's own domestic technology. there's nothing that's japanese on their ships except the engines (with the help of GE), the crew and the paint. everything else is made with US designs.

also, creating a large aircraft and creating a ground attack cruise missile is very different.

 

[Martian2]

i'm still not seeing how the AEGIS has anything to do with Japan's own domestic technology. there's nothing that's japanese on their ships except the engines (with the help of GE), the crew and the paint. everything else is made with US designs.

also, creating a large aircraft and creating a ground attack cruise missile is very different.

Did you miss the part where, decades ago, the U.S. transferred all necessary technology to Japan to build a fourth-generation aircraft, the "TRDI-designed 'indigenous' Mitsubishi F-2 fighter"? Also, Japan built an active phased-array radar years ago. Read the Richard Fisher, Jr. article.

It doesn't matter what proportion is Japanese technology and what percentage is American technology. Japan appears to have access to everything, short of fifth-generation stealth technology for now. Basically, the Japanese can build whatever they want and in whatever quantities that they want. Japan is America's most-powerful ally in Asia and they have special access to American technology.

 

[below_freezing]

yes, i read. Japan did not develop 4th generation capabilities on their own. they were held hand in hand by the US. in terms of building "whatever" they want and building in whatever quantities? even the US cannot say that, how can Japan?

their large airplane is their only completely indigenous project.

*added*

and this still does not overcome their weakness of no land attack cruise missiles. in a real war, it does not matter if you can MAKE the 1000 cruise missiles now, it matters if you HVAE them now because the ones that do have them can use these missiles to take out factories, command/control and airports.

 

[mDumb]

<I hope people understand that I'm not pro-Japanese. >

Hey Martian2, I have second thought of you? Is your last name Hirohito?

C'mon, Japan is militarily paralyzed as long as the US military is present in Japan. Yes, they have the capability to be in par with Russia, China, and the US. Unfortunately, it's an occupied country.

The Aegis thing is overrated (convince me not).

This thread is about matching China's nuclear warheads with the other two states. But somehow you hijacked this thread. I think you should create a thread with the title "Japan can beat Russia in a conventional war"

 

[Martian2]

<I hope people understand that I'm not pro-Japanese. >

Hey Martian2, I have second thought of you? Is your last name Hirohito?

C'mon, Japan is militarily paralyzed as long as the US military is present in Japan. Yes, they have the capability to be in par with Russia, China, and the US. Unfortunately, it's an occupied country.

The Aegis thing is overrated (convince me not).

This thread is about matching China's nuclear warheads with the other two states. But somehow you hijacked this thread. I think you should create a thread with the title "Japan can beat Russia in a conventional war"

Sorry about that, I'll turn the thread back to you.

 

[ptldM3]

Listen up 50 cent queen, it's pethetic how you are trying to make Russia look bad by finding anything and everything to nitpic, you have opened the flood gates.

The JF-17 has to use Russian engines.

The WS-10 program is hilarious.

Chinese hired Russian firms to help them develop radars.

China asked Russia to transfer guidence systems.

The J-10 is crashing every month.

The J-10 isn't even indiginous.

The SD-10 uses Russian seekers.

China shamlessly copies S-300.

Chinese Ships such as the 054 took Russian systems and incorporated tham into other ships without permission aka copying.

There plenty more....

[Former post #3 from last year comparing U.S., China, and Russia.]

Let me try to persuade some members that the world changes over time. Does an anti-ship ballistic missile that travels at Mach 10 before impact qualify as ground-breaking world-class weapon technology?

Mach 10 try mach 14, China fanboy.

The institute's report said the Dong Feng missile was thought to have a range of about 2000 kilometres and a speed of Mach 10: "The size of the missile enables it to carry a warhead big enough to inflict significant damage on a large vessel, providing the Chinese the capability of destroying a US supercarrier in one strike."

The result, 13 years later, is the Dong Feng 21. "It's a technological leap that's never [before] been made," says Schriver, now the head of a non-partisan research body, Project 2049 Institute, and a founding partner of the consulting firm Armitage International.

"The Russians couldn't do it. If it works, it will have the range of a ballistic missile and the accuracy of a cruise missile.

First off anything named "dung" is a joke, what's an even bigger joke is that Russia can't mach that delapitated peice of crap so fittingly call dung.

So the Dong travels 7000 mph, the Topel-M travels almost 11,000 mph....

So the Dong has a range of 2000 kilometres, how does 11,000 kilometres sound?

And the US is not scared of your Dung missle.

The dong is more accurate than Russian systems?.....lol, come talk to me when china doesn't crawl to Russia asking for gyro technology, cruise missle guidence systems and seeker systems.


China's Missile Imports and Assistance From Russia

China had recently requested that Russia transfer more high-technology fiber optic gyroscopes. These items are necessary components for China's short-, medium-, and long-range missiles


China was known in late 1992 to have recruited Russian technicians to work in Chinese defense plants in order to further advance its weapons systems. Many of these experts were reportedly working in Chinese missile plants to improve the accuracy of Chinese missiles. Finally, according to a senior US official, China has been trying to import Russia's high-technology base in order to be able to produce guidance systems, anti-submarine missiles, and cruise missiles

US intelligence sources continued to be concerned that Russian missile scientists were assisting China, and that Russia was providing important missile technology and equipment, including solid rocket fuel, cruise missile engines, and technical assistance for improving missile launch from submerged submarines.

It's safe to say that just about every peice of Chinese technology is of Russian origin or the Chinese hired Russians to help them build it.

That's not what I said. The conventional military powers and economies between China and Japan are fairly close. Russia does not match up with its inferior weapons (e.g. six consecutive Klub missile test failures, 15-year Bulava SLBM failure, etc.) or tiny economy.

Chinese think they have superior weapons to Russia Why would China import Russian technology if they were so superior?

Now to address the Bulava failures, are you saying no one else has failures? The US has never had rockets and space shuttles explode, China has never has rockets fall to earth and destroy villages? The Bulava has had problems but that's one program, there are countless other succesful programs. When progress is made failures will happen but at least Russia and the US addmits its failure unlike China and its fanboys which brag that they are the best. I have heard enough from you and your 50 cent brothers, every day i come accross, the J-XX is superior to the F-35, F-22 and Pak-fa, China lead to world in this and that, Chinese navy can destroy the US, Chinese technology is superior to Russia's, China will surpass the US, China sooo strong......and on it goes. You can nip-pic all you want about the Baluva but there are many other sucessful projects in Russia, atleast we have the balls to come forward and admite our mistakes unlike some ego filled commies.

 

[Kinetic]

lol
If China's warhead matches US and Russia's than China's nuclear technology should also match US and Russia's but in this they are decades behind. US and Russia have the nuclear weapon technologies way better than others. Just think about Los Alamos national laboratory or any of the Atomgrad, are the Chinese anywhere near? No.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

It's safe to say that just about every peice of Chinese technology is of Russian origin or the Chinese hired Russians to help them build it.

That's maybe true in 1950s, after that Soviet Union didn't provide the technical help anymore in the Era of Sino-Soviet Split. Also that Chairman Mao was quite unhappy at Khrushchev decided to withdraw the Soviet scientific crews from China and unwilling to share the technology of its nuclear plant and submarine.

Honestly, I think Chinese's rocket/missile has more American technology in its origin than that of the Soviet's.

This guy plays the main role for the foundation of the modern Chinese Rocket technology. And he was once an elite scientist who worked for the American government.

Qian Xuesen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ptldM3]

That's maybe true in 1950s, after that Soviet Union didn't provide the technical help anymore in the Era of Sino-Soviet Split. Also that Chairman Mao was quite unhappy at Khrushchev decided to withdraw the Soviet scientific crews from China and unwilling to share the technology of its nuclear plant and submarine.

Honestly, I think Chinese's rocket/missile has more American technology in its origin than that of the Soviet's.

This guy plays the main role for the foundation of the modern Chinese Rocket technology. And he was once an elite scientist who worked for the American government.

Qian Xuesen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the 1990's to now China has received alot of assistance from Russia.

China&#39;s Missile Imports and Assistance From Russia

 

[mDumb]

Hey ptldM3, you sound like an ungrateful Ruskie. Just think how many billions of dollars Russia received from China so that the Ruskies can buy beemer, mbz, vodka, etc.?

<Chinese think they have superior weapons to Russia Why would China import Russian technology if they were so superior?>
They are many reasons and your reason may not be the right one.

<When progress is made failures will happen but at least Russia and the US addmits its failure unlike China.>
Dude, if China doesn't admit mistakes China would never be able to build or improve anything. I hope you understand the concept of engineering.

China is always changing (and changing requires the admittance of mistakes). If you were to compare China's economy, people's livelihood, military weapons in '70 to '10, you will agree '70 is extremely pale.