China's Huawei offers to share source code

[username]

India should be removed form WTO for banning a honest chinese company kinda discriminatory , the equipment is for civilian usage

Again as per the Indian Ministers Huawei is not banned indiscriminately, they decide things on case-to-case basis. In this case having telecom equipments from Chinese company was not in India's interest. So this is not discriminatory. In India I don't know whether we have seperate telecom network for Civilian usage and defence, military usage throught the country or not. And even if there are seperate networks we don't know how well they are isolated, so if GoI says it is a security risk you only have to believe that, you cannot ask for the network details of the country to them.

 

[username]

whatsoever, this is a lose-lose situation.
for india and indian consumers have to pay more for its telcom infra. this may slow its telcom infra development progress and hurts india as whole in long run.
for Huawei or ZTE lose indian market.
personally i dont feel much abt it. to me huawei is just another telcom company like cisco,at&t etc. they sometime win sometime lose. it has not much effect on china.

No this is not just another lose for Huawei, India is their biggest market outside China.

 

[username]

However, the real worry on the Chinese side is whether Huawei and ZTE can keep their technological secrets from India. India has already applied enough pressure to force Huawei to offer its source code.

Martian, Are you implying that GoI's motive was to make Huawei Offer it's source code ? If so I disagree. GoI cannot do anything with that millions of lines of code. Who will verify that big a code ?

Those companies even if they give source code, design documents, build setup, debugging setup, money paid for number of developers it takes to understand the code, number of testers to verify the equipment for loopholes, the time taken will be huge. So there is no point in GoI making Huawei offer it's source code. And secondly most telecom software modules are not exactly secrets, they are merely protocol implementations for which the requirements are available Openly.

 

[new wave]

see yourself the China...that beats the sub continent..aren't we [Ind Pak] the luckiest see the pics...

self delete

 

[Jade]

some people just die hard to change. i wont argue with u. whatever we said here you dont believe.
you picked up 5 places and chinese members showed you the pics of these 5 places to broaden your knowledges abt these places but you still turn your eyes blind and come up with a old 2006 survey.
nobody is suggesting here that china is a superpower like USA. what we are saying is china is far ahead of india, abt 20 years, from the pics i see on internet.
you dont have to believe anybody, why not just take on a flight to those 5 places you picked up to see with your own eyes? and then come back to give your comments on how many years india is ahead or behind china.

Having 10 skyscrapers in 5 cities don’t make China far ahead of India in all areas. Please illuminate in which areas China is ahead of India by 20 years. Going by the Gallup polls of 2006, four years is a very short period in any countries life to make so many structural changes that it become first rated country. Even, if going by your own words, if China can impart structural changes in just four years to make China a first rated country what will stop India from doing the same.

You agree or not there is a rural-urban/east-west divide in China. I am here not claiming that China is some third rated country. In fact China has made huge strides in last 20 years. However, I doubt the veracity of most Chinese members claims on the strides made by China.

 

[Jade]

Dude, the Chinese Media never portrays China as a Superpower, this hypehole was all done by the Western Media in order to promote the Threat of China. But we have always kept in mind that China is still a developing country which still needs to catch up in many fields of technology.

Dude, If China is still a developing country then please behave like a citizen of a developing country and stop claiming that China is 40/20 years ahead of India in all areas

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

New Wave,

This is an issue of GOI using discriminatory measures against two Chinese companies (Huawei and ZTE) and then trying to cover it up under the false guise of "security".

Simple as that. They are violating WTO rules and the spirit of friendly international relations. This is NOT the first time they've done so.

(1) Take for instance Coca-Cola in the past. They tried to force Coca-Cola to divulge the secret ingredients of Coke, otherwise they would ban Coke from Indian markets. Coca-Cola refused and they were given the boot. And Coca-Cola wasn't the only American company treated this way.

(2) Then was the case with Japan's HONDA. This case was in recent decade and bears much similarity in tactics employed by Bharat. HONDA was lured with false promises of a large market and a fair partnership, so it set up a Joint Venture (JV) with a local Indian company. After years of negotiation, GOI convinced Japan's Honda to build a manufacturing plant in India -- not only an assembly motorcycle plant, but also trade secrets and the actual technology to build world-class motorcyles. "What can we lose" thought the executives at Honda, as they already have transfered tech to Vietnam....

But what came next was a real shocker! GOI renegaded on it's contractual commitments and misappropriated HONDA's plants and core technologies! Efforts at arbitration in India's Kangaroo Courts proved futile. HONDA had no choice but to leave behind its plants and technologies to the domestic Indian "partner" ---- and thus Pulsar brand of "Indian" motorcycles was 'born'.

(3) It's not only the strong, rich and technologically advanced nations that fall prey to Indian Business Tactics. Thailand too would experience what it feels like to be "cheated". Thailand is a nation that grips with severe poverty and exploitation, after millions of dollars in investment and years of hard work, they completed their FIRST CG Animation movie. A local Indian businessman conned the Thais into handing them the prints for its movies, using promises of great business. What was to happen next was a real surprise to all.

This Indian "businessman" then sold the prints to a large Indian Film Company -- WITHOUT the permission of the Thai company. What happened next was beyond shame. Not only were the Thais not given their due compensation, Bollywood was shameless enough to redub the movie in Hindu and CLAIM IT WAS INDIA's 1st CG MOVIE 100% MADE BY INDIANS (without a word mentioned about Thailand). Of course after many Internet sleuths revealed this lie, Bollywood as usual backtracked on its false claims.


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So from just these 3 examples, we can get a good glimpse on what its like to do "business" in the "world's 2nd largest market". Huawei and ZTE will be well advised to watch their backs.

 

[Cityboy]

Why chinese companies beging so much for contracts ? They can pack their bag.

 

[below_freezing]

Dude, If China is still a developing country then please behave like a citizen of a developing country and stop claiming that China is 40/20 years ahead of India in all areas

developing countries are not all equal.

some parts of china are already better than some developed countries, like shanghai, beijing, shenzhen, qingdao, etc.

seriously, india is really far behind china. in all positive aspects. number of scientific papers, lifespan, GDP/capita, GDP total, population, military strength, average calorie intake, women's rights, literacy, education levels, sanitary water, average productivity, infrastructure, etc.

the correct way forward is to accept ones inferiority, and then use that as motivation.

 

[username]

New Wave,

This is an issue of GOI using discriminatory measures against two Chinese companies (Huawei and ZTE) and then trying to cover it up under the false guise of "security".

Simple as that. They are violating WTO rules and the spirit of friendly international relations. This is NOT the first time they've done so.

(1) Take for instance Coca-Cola in the past. They tried to force Coca-Cola to divulge the secret ingredients of Coke, otherwise they would ban Coke from Indian markets. Coca-Cola refused and they were given the boot. And Coca-Cola wasn't the only American company treated this way.

Nobody asked for Coca-Cola's secret formula or anysuch thing, there was a concern about quality. And you can watch youtube videos where in lot of people (not just Indians) who are trying to say that coca-cola is harmful to health. I will not say that I am saying coca-cola is harmful to health. I was just mearly pointing out at the allegations, to put across a point that other country people also , and just because of that it doesn't mean they are looking at the ways to get Coca-Cola's secret formulas. Care to give a link which says India is asking for Coca-Cola's secret formulas ?

(2) Then was the case with Japan's HONDA. This case was in recent decade and bears much similarity in tactics employed by Bharat. HONDA was lured with false promises of a large market and a fair partnership, so it set up a Joint Venture (JV) with a local Indian company. After years of negotiation, GOI convinced Japan's Honda to build a manufacturing plant in India -- not only an assembly motorcycle plant, but also trade secrets and the actual technology to build world-class motorcyles. "What can we lose" thought the executives at Honda, as they already have transfered tech to Vietnam....

But what came next was a real shocker! GOI renegaded on it's contractual commitments and misappropriated HONDA's plants and core technologies! Efforts at arbitration in India's Kangaroo Courts proved futile. HONDA had no choice but to leave behind its plants and technologies to the domestic Indian "partner" ---- and thus Pulsar brand of "Indian" motorcycles was 'born'.

Pulsar Brand ? Pulsar is not a Brand, and it is launched by Bajaj, they never had any association with Honda whatsoever. Bajaj was partners with Kawasaki, not Honda.
And for your information Honda is still in India (HMSI, which came up with the bike Honda Unicorn and others). Can you give a link which says GoI misappropriated HONDA's plants ?

(3) It's not only the strong, rich and technologically advanced nations that fall prey to Indian Business Tactics. Thailand too would experience what it feels like to be "cheated". Thailand is a nation that grips with severe poverty and exploitation, after millions of dollars in investment and years of hard work, they completed their FIRST CG Animation movie. A local Indian businessman conned the Thais into handing them the prints for its movies, using promises of great business. What was to happen next was a real surprise to all.

This Indian "businessman" then sold the prints to a large Indian Film Company -- WITHOUT the permission of the Thai company. What happened next was beyond shame. Not only were the Thais not given their due compensation, Bollywood was shameless enough to redub the movie in Hindu and CLAIM IT WAS INDIA's 1st CG MOVIE 100% MADE BY INDIANS (without a word mentioned about Thailand). Of course after many Internet sleuths revealed this lie, Bollywood as usual backtracked on its false claims.

Which movie are you talking about ? Anyways I don't follow Bollywood, just asking to know which movie are you referring to. And by the way what language is Hindu ?

So from just these 3 examples, we can get a good glimpse on what its like to do "business" in the "world's 2nd largest market". Huawei and ZTE will be well advised to watch their backs.

I wish Huawei and ZTE takes your advise and keeps out of India. I don't know why they are still saying that they will set up manufacturing plants, give their source code etc., I think they don't have any sense at all or too naive but still they are running multi billion dollar companies. What say SinoIndusFriendship ?

By the way, you are going lot of extra miles to maintain your friendship with China, it doesn't mean that you have to lie. Try not to lie, if you lie for your friendship then it simply means that you are an oppurtunist not a true friend. Why I think you are lieing is because the first 2 points looks like blatent lies to me, anyways I am open to discuss those things with you.

About the 3rd point I don't know as I don't follow Bollywood, anyways let me know the name of that movie.

 

[Iggy]

seiko is a Japanese brand...or do you call youself sicko? no offence but sounds the same and probably that's what you really wanted to mean?

If Seiko is a Japanese brand so what?I can put what ever name i like..getting personal are we??did i touch your nerve there

China's newest destroyers, as I' am aware, are Aegis-equivalents, which would take India's newest destroyers as a snack Damn... there're just so many deluted Indian ants army here...

Agies equallent??who told you that??Part papers from beloved China??seems like there are more delutes Chinese rant armies here than Indians well I agree you are 20 years advanced than Indians in ranting

 

[Star of David]

developing countries are not all equal.

some parts of china are already better than some developed countries, like shanghai, beijing, shenzhen, qingdao, etc.

seriously, india is really far behind china. in all positive aspects. number of scientific papers, lifespan, GDP/capita, GDP total, population, military strength, average calorie intake, women's rights, literacy, education levels, sanitary water, average productivity, infrastructure, etc.

the correct way forward is to accept ones inferiority, and then use that as motivation.

You are correct. I feel we Indians have a great deal of pride. the only way to correct our mistakes and improve our situation is realize what our mistakes are and fix it.

 

[username]

I never suggested otherwise. However, this behavior from the Indian government is new and very un-Indian. Oh well, so much for pacifist Gandhian India. I like the old India better. I think India has decided that it wants to become more like China.

I was surprised by the Indian government's decision to "squeeze" Huawei and ZTE. India is showing an economic ferociousness and determination that I don't believe that I've seen before.

In the past, China played hardball with U.S. companies. However, Chinese action was entirely legal. The U.S. made a serious error in not writing more conditions for China's entry into the WTO. You can't complain if you failed to foresee the rapid growth and importance of China's domestic market and government procurement.

On the other hand, India is playing hardball with China and taking it one step further. India found a public-relations weakness in the supposed PLA roots of Huawei. Using this PLA specter and the absurd ghost of 1962 (which was 48 years ago and happened before most of us were born), India has decided to ignore the WTO obligations and proclaim that Huawei and ZTE may have to be banned on "security concerns."

I think I'll call this the Indian variation of the traditional Chinese "hardball" strategy. In this Indian variation, Huawei and ZTE will have to keep bending over and satisfy a long stream of Indian demands.
In conclusion, India is doing to China what China did to the U.S. However, the key difference is that India seems to be "cheating" and violating WTO rules. This is different from the upright Chinese, who never gave the Americans an extra inch than what was called for in the WTO accession obligations. Come on India, remember Gandhi!

hmmm... a long list of allegations against India that India is deflecting from Gandhian way. Let me put across my points.

1. When I joined Huawei, it had < 1000 or some number of employees in Bangalore, India.
2. When I Quit Huawei, they were having much more than that, and were already planning to double. This is Software R&D alone.
3. In 2009 annual day, they were already discussing about opening a manufacturing plant in India.
4. Even much before that there were newspaper articles quoting Huawei to open manufacturing plants in India.
5. Huawei generally as most of you guys point out are already providing things for a far lesser price than others.
6. If GoI had simply let it go, they would have expanded their operations like anything in India which would employed a lot of people in India.

So Indian government has NOTHING to gain from sending these 2 companies out of India. Here GoI is not playing hardball as you say to gain anything. In fact GoI losses a lot (an oppurtunity get a manufacturing plant, the R&D division expansion of these companies, cheaper products etc). Why would GoI let go all these goodies if not for legitimate security concerns.

In Country terms especially there are outstanding issues (like China claiming Arunachal Pradesh) a war which was 48 years before is short term, especially for India as we lost the war. We have to see to that we are never at any disadvantage in case if a war breaks out again. Both the countries look at each other suspeciously. May be for U.S it might be old as you guys go for a war bit more frequently (I will not discuss about legitimacy of U.S war, I don't care, it does not affect me at all, and please don't take this remark as though I am saying anything negative about U.S., I just wanted to point out that for India a war before 48 years and still some suspicion is something big).

 

[Speeder 2]

If Seiko is a Japanese brand so what? I can put what ever name i like..getting personal are we??did i touch your nerve there

Of course that you can call yourself whatever, how about "Swatch" ? it's more direct.

But I strongly suggest "Sicko", judging from your writing style.

Agies equallent??who told you that??Part papers from beloved China??seems like there are more delutes Chinese rant armies here than Indians well I agree you are 20 years advanced than Indians in ranting

Go read the recent thread entry by Martian 2, you bigot !

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...52c-aegis-class-warships-ocean-dominance.html

 

[Speeder 2]

Nobody asked for Coca-Cola's secret formula or anysuch thing,... Care to give a link which says India is asking for Coca-Cola's secret formulas ?

What India needs coke's fomula for if it already got beloving and popular cow pee formula?