China's Ghost Cities

[cross1993]

you have to sell it then got thr GDP

didi those guys ever went to school

Yes, GDP is calculated by the tax. No sell, No tax, No GDP.

 

[rcrmj]

Yes, GDP is calculated by the tax. No sell, No tax, No GDP.

those annoying indians here like flys`-_- !

on topic, it has something to do with bad managment, some regional officals in order to meet the target to built such things. luckly there are the minorities.
there are lots of chinese forums and private news agencies are getting into the details how they were built, some officials sure will be in trouble in the near future.

However, to build the things does taking account into the GDP, because there are transactions taken during the project, for example buying materials, labour costs, land lease fees and etc. GDP= Growth Domestic Production which has nothing to do with tax revenue.

 

[casual]

they should let people paintball in the giant empty mall

would be so much fun

 

[CardSharp]

If I want to find even the slightest bit of negative news about China, I can always come here and be sure non-Chinese are starting a thread about it. Pathetic, really.

These ghost cities aren't a problem for China. Not one bit. Chanos is wrong and Rogers is right.
This is Chinese people borrowing money from Chinese people to build real estate in China.
This is different from Spain where the money is borrowed from Germans. Or the US where the money is borrowed from the Chinese. Or India, where no one is lending them money on this scale to build anything.

Westerners act like consumerism is the hard part. NO. Consumerism is the easy part and Chinese people spend money as well as anyone. The two biggest market for luxury watches for the last 20 years has been Singapore and Hong Kong. The US has $50 TRILLION in public and private debt. Anybody can learn to borrow and spend. That's the easy part. Chinese people want iPad 2 too. When China is ready (10 more years), it will release consumerism on a scale that will put the Japanese and South Koreans to shame.

I just hope this insecure ill-wishing crowd will be there to see the day. That will be a better stfu than anything we can write here.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Good, this means China isn't overpopulated as some people thought by now.

 

[ephone]

Let's not turn every topics into China-India-bashing-each-other threads. China indeed has over-built in certain areas and there is really no need to bash India right back even though an Indian member starts this topic.

Well atleast the Chinese are 10 years ahead of the demand whereas in India we are always 10 years behind the demand.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

you have to sell it then got thr GDP

didi those guys ever went to school

Maybe this will help an internationally acclaimed economist to revisit your books before making, what you think are, smart remarks!What is the GDP?

The gross domestic product, or GDP, is the total value of a nations goods and services produced within a preset period of time. Usually, GDP is measured on a calendar year basis. More precisely, GDP can be calculated by adding up the following components: consumption, investment, government spending, and net exports, or the spread between imports and exports.

Consumption includes personal items such as food, utilities, rent, clothing, fuel, and financial services received by individuals. It is important to note that housing purchase costs are NOT included in this category. This is by far the largest component of GDP.

Investments refer to capital expenditures which would include costs associated with building new factories, business machinery expenses, new home purchases, business inventory changes. One important note to make on investments is that stock and bond purchases are not considered in this category as they do not add to the GDP, or any actual output.

The Government spending category includes state and local governments as well as the federal government. This category is the second largest component of the gross domestic product. Items such as school teacher salaries and pensions, congressman and senator salaries, and military goods are a few of the major components.

Finally, net exports is simply the difference between the amount of goods we export and import every year. This would account for all foreign consumption of our goods, or output from our economy.
Different types of GDP measurements:

You may have heard the terms "real" GDP growth or "nominal" GDP growth and wondered what the difference was. The difference lies in the fact that nominal GDP does not take into account price changes, or inflation, while real GDP does. Nominal GDP measures the aggregate prices of goods based on current prices while real GDP, also referred to as constant price GDP, represents gross domestic product in constant dollars. This means that real GDP will measure the value of output in terms of prices from a base year.

For example, let's say that the economy produced 10 billion dollars worth of cars in 2006. Since this will be our basis year, real and nominal GDP will be the same, 10 billion dollars. However, in 2007, 12 billion dollars worth of automobiles were produced using 2007 prices. Additionally, the number of cars produced in 2007 priced at 2006 levels would result in a output of 11 billion dollars.

Using this example, you can see the following: 2006 nominal and real GDP are 10 billion dollars. For 2007, the nominal GDP is 12 billion dollars while the real GDP is 11 billion.

This enables us to calculate the real GDP growth rate which would be (11 billion - 10 billion) / 10 Billion = 10%.

The nominal GDP growth rate would then be (12 billion - 10 billion) / 10 billion, or 20%.

The nominal growth rate does not help us in determining the true growth in output as it has inflation baked into it. That is why many economists rely on real GDP to determine the true growth rate of the economy.

Another important ratio that is derived using real and nominal GDP is the GDP Deflator. It can be calculated using the following formula: (Nominal GDP / Real GDP) / 100 (converts to %). The GDP deflator is key because it allows us to measure how much a year over year change in the base level of GDP (2006 to 2007 in our example) is due to inflation.

The GDP deflator is similar to the consumer price index in that it measures inflation; however, it has a distinct advantage. CPI measures a fixed basket of goods and services while the GDP deflator takes into account a much broader variety of goods and services, especially new ones that are introduced into the economy.




One does not have to explain which are the largest spending that have the maximum effect on the GDP.

Small minds miss the BIG things!

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Why are Chinese members agitated ? Because an Indian started this thread ?

Isn't this worth discussing anyways ?

I mean if a Chinese member can start a thread as useless as comparing the Shanghai railway station with the mumbai railway station on this forum , this thread seems much more worthy of a discussion than that atleast .

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Why are Chinese members agitated ? Because an Indian started this thread ?

You got it right on the first guess.

 

[below_freezing]

If I want to find even the slightest bit of negative news about China, I can always come here and be sure non-Chinese are starting a thread about it. Pathetic, really.

These ghost cities aren't a problem for China. Not one bit. Chanos is wrong and Rogers is right.
This is Chinese people borrowing money from Chinese people to build real estate in China.
This is different from Spain where the money is borrowed from Germans. Or the US where the money is borrowed from the Chinese. Or India, where no one is lending them money on this scale to build anything.

Westerners act like consumerism is the hard part. NO. Consumerism is the easy part and Chinese people spend money as well as anyone. The two biggest market for luxury watches for the last 20 years has been Singapore and Hong Kong. The US has $50 TRILLION in public and private debt. Anybody can learn to borrow and spend. That's the easy part. Chinese people want iPad 2 too. When China is ready (10 more years), it will release consumerism on a scale that will put the Japanese and South Koreans to shame.

The world economy works like this:

5 asians and 1 american are trapped on a tiny island from an airplane crash with no other surviving humans. The jobs of the asians are to make fire, kill animals, gather vegetables, cook and make shelter.

The american's job is to eat.

Well, no. His job is actually to be the "security guard" defending their camp against nonexistent "thieves".

Every day, the American eats the most, and tells the Asians, "I am the sole provider of economic growth on this island. Without me, you'd all be unemployed. I also guarentee security, without me, you'd all be killing each other." He then points to some magazines from the airplane wreckage that calls US consumerism the dominant economic growth engine in the world, as proof.

The sane thing to do, of course, is to drown the american and cook him.

 

[no_name]

This is similar to my idea, except I was envisaging a revival of the gladiatorial games with real weapons. Basically you sign a waiver, build a 5 man tactical squad, and you're set loose in a empty city against other teams. The winner gets fame and fortune (and I think plenty of people are probably willing to do it)

Get the PLA to do some urban laser tag.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

You got it right on the first guess.

It wasn't a guess brother .

 

[CardSharp]

Get the PLA to do some urban laser tag.

No where near the spectacle.

 

[marshall]

I suspect that these cities are a part of China's on-going urbanization project. There are still 700 million Chinese or ~50% living in rural areas, it is the Chinese government's goal to steadily decrease this number and get it to ~60% urbanized by the 2020's. Right now there are over-crowding problem in the bigger cities caused by rural people seeking better wages, once these cities are built and up and running (many of them are), it will help to alleviate this problem.

I would agree with this if these were not mainly composed of luxury or semi-luxury apartments which are not what is needed for the urbanization effort. This is simply a result of poor planning on the part of developers and lax oversight by the central government who allowed prices to rise out of control and out of reach of the average wage earner. The recent announcement by the central government to build 10 million lower income homes will go a long way to cool the market for these higher cost housing units and hopefully will bring about a large price drop restricted to mainly these expensive unoccupied units.

 

[CardSharp]

I would agree with this if these were not mainly composed of luxury or semi-luxury apartments which are not what is needed for the urbanization effort. This is simply a result of poor planning on the part of developers and lax oversight by the central government who allowed prices to rise out of control and out of reach of the average wage earner. The recent announcement by the central government to build 10 million lower income homes will go a long way to cool the market for these higher cost housing units and hopefully will bring about a large price drop restricted to mainly these expensive unoccupied units.

Probably lower level government joining in on the speculation.