China's Front Line Fighters

[nakodo]

Any src? What parts of MKI are manufactrued in india.

Do you have any source to prove how you did or did not reverse engineer J-11, you never know with in a country where people can only speculate and hope their masters are doing the right thing.

 

[nakodo]

the landing wheels, for one, I suppose?

The first indigenously built Sukhoi SU-30MKI was inducted into the Air Force in March 2005. The aircraft assembled at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, Ozhar near Nashik rolled out in November 2004. It was the first of the 140 aircraft proposed to be built in India under Russian license. In 2006 the Government asked Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to step up production of Su-30 from 8 to 12 aircraft per year and deliver all the 140 Sukhois in 2014, four years ahead of the original 2018 deadline. A production rate of 12 aircraft per year over six years would another 72 aircraft, for a total of about 120 aircraft, roughly the 140 aircraft projected in 2006, more or less. In October 2008 Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal, Fali Homi Major assured that a total of 230 of the platforms would join the fleet by 2014, with Hindustan Aeronautical Limited (HAL) trying to speed up licensed production of the aircraft. As of early 2009 India intended to manufacture a minimum of 140 Su-30MKI fighters by 2014 under a Russian license with full technology transfer rights, enough for roughly 8 squadrons, each of 16 combat aircraft and 2 trainers. While a total of 230 aircraft are expected to be in service by the year 2020, HAL would have to increase the annual production rate from 12 aircraft per year to 24 per year.

 

[LURKER]

Can't just do a direct comparison. China needs to worry about multiple fronts.

russia - sk/japan - taiwan strait - se asia

So it's planes will be divided. currently you prob wont see more than 200 4th gen aircraft along borders with india.

even india cannot deploy its entire inventory against china. we got to hv some aircrafts defending the western borders as well. and IMO mig 29 will not be used against china , these r meant fr pakistan...all are stationed at the western border. going by the numbers china has way more planes than india....but looking at the number of fronts each country has to guard then india has mainly two fronts i.e. pakistan and china.....while china has multiple fronts 2 guard ...taiwan,japan,russia,vietnam....so its aircrafts will be distributed . so china cannot field all its 500+ 4th gen fighters(im nt taking into account older gen aircrafts) against india nor can india use its 200 odd 4th gen fighters against china.....so the situation though slightly in favour of china is more or less evenly matched .

 

[Speeder 2]

I was talking about planes that are assigned to defend against India/SE asia. Also I used 4th gen to refer to china 3rd gen.

200 Jxx is enough only if it is of comparable aircraft to F-22. I think you also need a low end one that you can produce as cheaply as J-10Bs, as US will field F-35 in large numbers and Japan will be interested too.

I also think J-10 will eventually become J-7 of the old PLAAF, massively produced at low price. They might want to do it with J-10B. J-11 numbers will be large like the case with J-8. Then the number of 5th gen fighters will prob be comparable to number of J-10 and J-11s currently fielded.

Generally agreed.

1/4 to 1/3 for the Southwest border is what I would do. Again, I am no one.

I read it somehwere that J-10 is almost certain to be the future backbone of PLAF - means it should be latgely produced and easily replaced. Don't J-10A or B though.

On J-XX, I think it's a wise move to have 2 versions as it would likely to be, one cheaper as F-35 and mass produced (If you look at China's action in filelding the most recent version of Type-99 tanks - it's the same id). It's also because that a full scale conventional war when hundreds of top line model 5th gen are required is highly unlikely, while regional small conflicts could be more possible, when only dozens of such a top line jets could do the job. So in the peacetime, it's much more economical to field mass-produced 2nd version of plane, or everything, while maintaining the technological knowhow and limited amount of the top line models at the same time.

 

[Sanchez]

Never wanted to argue with Indians about their "power" after reading about their history, specially the modern war histories.

 

[aimarraul]

J-8F

PL-12


new radar


cockpit

 

[Guest]

it is not like that for a ratio of 5 to 1 an aircraft has to carry 20 missiles.
its just you loose some planes and the other doesnt.

that is also impossible .

in the indo-china scenario, if PLAAF want to attack, her bomber just need to flew to tibet launch the cruise missiles and then go back, almost air-combat free.

however, if IA want to do some real damage on China. she needs to flew across Tibet and then launch the cruise missiles, that is at least 1000KM from india border. in this case, intercepters can leave if they are run out of ammo, but the escorts can never leave the bombers. eventually the escorts will run out of ammo and can only acts as decoys of the bombers.

on the other hand, if PLAAF decided to intercept the imcomming planes at all cost, no more hit and run. then most likely, this will turn into a dog fight. in this case, tactics and quantity is much much more imortant than quality.

 

[mDumb]

J8 has gone so many upgrades. One should not discount the capabilities of J8.

Here are some of the upgrades:
J8B, J8D, J8C, J8H, J8F, J8G, J8M, J8T (current development).

 

[jagjitnatt]

J8 has gone so many upgrades. One should not discount the capabilities of J8.

Here are some of the upgrades:
J8B, J8D, J8C, J8H, J8F, J8G, J8M, J8T (current development).

This also was once a copy of Mig21.
Although it has gone numerous upgrades, but the latest upgrades just BVRAAM support and better radar. The Bison that we have also supports these features. Actually Bison is way better than J7 and J8 because of powerful Israeli Jammers, and R77 AAM. At best these are just 3rd gen planes.

J8 was developed 4 decades ago. Its really really underpowered. Its time for it to retire.

The only good planes that china has are:

J11, J10, Su27, Su30.

China uses Su30 not for air superiority roles but as a strike fighter. So its gonna be J10, or J11 for air superiority.

 

[xuxu1457]

J8 has gone so many upgrades. One should not discount the capabilities of J8.

Here are some of the upgrades:
J8B, J8D, J8C, J8H, J8F, J8G, J8M, J8T (current development).

The updated J-8

MIG21

And the number of fighter is depend on the open source,in 2008 the number is more or less like the

China has a huge inventory of aircraft but majority of them are 2nd and 3rd gen just like India.

Here's a list:

J10 - 196
J7 - 700
J8 - 300
Su-27 - 70
Su-30 - 100
J11 - 120
JH-7A/B - 190
H6 - 180

And except the fighters of navy,as the air force's 300 law"main type of fighter of air force will be equipped with more or less 300",In the end of 2009 depend on open source,J-10A/B ：248，Nine groups；and it will suspend the production if the number at 300.
In general, the Navy's flight is 1/4~1/3 of the Air Force;
Upgrade will associate with the life of one aircraft;
J-8 is a two engines figher,if you can "copy" a one engine aircraft to a two engine one
J-8
Wingspan: 9.34 m
Length: 21.52 m
Height: 5.41 m
Wing area: 42.19 square meters
Normal takeoff weight: 13,850 kg
Maximum level flight speed: M2.2 (high altitude)
Practical ceiling: 20,500 m
MIG21
Length: 15.76 m
Wingspan: 7.154 m
Height: 4.1 m
Wing area: 23.0 m²
Empty weight: 4,871 kg
Gross weight: 7,100 kg
Is it copy?????

 

[chinapakistan]

Irkut/HAL Su-30MKI Air Dominance Fighter

Go through the link. The deal for Su-30MKI was signed with a full transfer of technology (ToT) for the Indian industries to manufacture the aircraft.

This article is too long, can you just quota the "what parts are manufactrued in india"? By the way, this is not the offical article.
And what is the meaning of full ToT? Are you trying to say su30 engine, rader are manufactured in india? I aslo googled the information about MKI parts manufactured in india, unfortunately I got nothing, the simple answer is no major parts of MKI are manufactured in india.
BTW: Be honor, I dont know why indian alway like talking big without basises, it is very hard to talk reasonablly for indian?

 

[ao333]

Guys, don't pull diplomatic speculations into this. If a skirmish between 2 nuclear weapon states (US, RF, PRC, ROI) is to occur, the remaining 2 will simply sell conventional weapons to both sides, as fully aiding either 1 will instigate nuclear warfare.

Furthermore, talking about future aircraft is just stupid since no one, not even the governments in question know when they will enter service or how many will be produced/purchased.

Here is a fighter-to-fighter comparison where logistics, pilot potency, geography, communication (AWACS), mobilization, land/naval support, fielding, do not apply. Planes with clear technological superiority are bolded.

J-11B+Su-30MKK/2 (120) vs Su-30MKI (98)
J-11+Su27 (172) vs (0)
J-10 (168-196) vs Mirage 2000H+MiG-29S (97)
J-7G2+J-8IIM (888-1035) vs MiG-21 (121)

Ratio: 1436:316 or 4.5:1

While China has the advantage of number, indigenous+mass+low cost production, technological superiority on most planes, and Tibet, which is low on population density and high in elevation, India has 98 of the most superior fighters. If you ask me, China has complete air superiority.

 

[gubbi]

This article is too long, can you just quota the "what parts are manufactrued in india"? By the way, this is not the offical article.
And what is the meaning of full ToT? Are you trying to say su30 engine, rader are manufactured in india? I aslo googled the information about MKI parts manufactured in india, unfortunately I got nothing, the simple answer is no major parts of MKI are manufactured in india.
BTW: Be honor, I dont know why indian alway like talking big without basises, it is very hard to talk reasonablly for indian?

"Be honor"? You mean like "be a man"?
The specific list of parts manufactured is not available, unless someone with insider knowledge comes up with a list. A full ToT means, the technology from the design to tools to make those parts, the whole shebang, is available. IIRC, the technology for making engine compressor blades from a single crystal is also available in India, someone correct me if I am wrong.
btw, fyi, your last sentence qualifies as trolling, or trash talk. Unwarrented.

 

[chinapakistan]

"Be honor"? You mean like "be a man"?
The specific list of parts manufactured is not available, unless someone with insider knowledge comes up with a list. A full ToT means, the technology from the design to tools to make those parts, the whole shebang, is available. IIRC, the technology for making engine compressor blades from a single crystal is also available in India, someone correct me if I am wrong.
btw, fyi, your last sentence qualifies as trolling, or trash talk. Unwarrented.

I wanna reasonble src not what the saying of common people without basis. You have nothing to support what you are saying. By the way, saying without any reasonable src supporting is not credible, it is the common sense, am I wrong?
BTW: What I said in the last line of my previous post is based on the above.

 

[Jazzbot]

WoW, i started this topic last night and then went to sleep lal, and look what i have next morning surprising.. well what's the point of all this fight.. i think india and china aren't going for a war, are they..??

My question was just simple, i quoted China vs USA because we imagine that the way china is progressing with R&D and self reliance.. it is likely, that china will compete USA in future.. I was just thinking whether china has any fighter in service which can compete USA in today's war scenario or not..

Then i quoted China vs India, coz i wasn't expecting china to compete USA in today's war.. So at least i wanted to see what China can offer against India..

The thing is, my question is still there, though china is producing lots of things including J-XX, radars, missles which will be in service in next decade or so, but do china has any Plane in service right now, which can dominate Indian Air Force if the war starts today..?

I wasn't talking at all about number game. China ofc has bigger number in all fields of military hardware.. i was talking is there any fighter in chinese line up which can simply dominate Indian air force and from which indian AF can feel fear..? i think there isn't any such plane right now. We can expect such plane in future but given that india will also induct LCA, PakFa, MMRCA etc, the game will still ON and it will be interesting to see what we'll have in future..

However, according to past experience, India always likes to advertise its project alot to keep it pressure at neighboring countries, which i think is a part of India's international policies.. So by that, we all know what kind of future plans India have for next decade or 2..

While on the other hand, China don't usually publish its plans and rather prefers to keep them very secret. No one knows what Chinese are cracking until they announce it after making sure the job is done.. Even we aren't sure till date whether projects like J-XX really exist or not .. :/ So we can expect alot bigger picture in future that we can visualize today.. Perhaps we don't know what's the current status of J-XX, are there any other 5th Gen projects going on..? what other planes are exactly going through the process of up-gradations and what kind of up-gradations they are..


So in short, i can smell something lot more bigger from china in near future then its looking today.. I can say India is looking for Air Dominance in region in next decades, but who knows what Planes China have.. China is perhaps looking way above Indians are. China is going to compete USA and Russia in future so her goals and objectives must be hell high than that of India..