China’s FC-31 has yet to prove itself a match for the US F-35 it copied

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The first flight of the F 35 was in 2006----. The J 31 --- what is it in 2015----there is an eight years gap---. Let us give it another 4 years and see what comes out----then we will be in a better position to make a judgement call.

 

[antonius123]

Hard to take from someone who lied about his 'aviation experience', then 'aviation study'.

You are stock of laugh since u cant distinguish between stealing technology vs copy cat.

 

[gambit]

No one is talking about wholesale replication down to the bolts and rivets of the J-31 from the F-35. When people criticized the J-31 for being a 'copy' of the F-35, they are essentially wondering how is it possible that China, for decades had to import her defense and struggled with developing indigenous weapons systems beyond the AK-47, all of a sudden built the J-20 and the J-31 whose outward appearances bears amazing similarities -- not identical -- to the American fighters.

The critics are not some ignoramuses down the streets. They are aviation experts that runs the spectrum of aviation, from military to civilians, from engineers to pilots, and even down to knowledgeable non-flying enthusiasts. They were flying or publishing papers about airplanes when you guys were still flicking boogers at each other at the playgrounds. When I did hard TFs over Scotland, you guys just discovered how good it was to fondle your own hard-ons.

Whether China did commit espionage to gain vital technical knowledge to build her 'stealth' fighters or not is for a different discussion, one that will never be satisfactorily settled, but while no one expect China to build an F-117 equivalent as proof that her 'stealth' fighter program was indigenous, no one was willing to sacrifice his credulity and accept unconditionally that China was able to leap one -- but more like two -- generation of military aviation to build the J-20 and the J-31 without assistance. The word 'assistance' here does not mean a foreign power actively and even publicly provide China with those vital technical knowledge. The word 'assistance' mean somehow China had access to knowledge that China either did not have or was struggling to develop.

Sometimes some things are so obvious that debates about them are pointless.

 

[Tameem]

No one is talking about wholesale replication down to the bolts and rivets of the J-31 from the F-35. When people criticized the J-31 for being a 'copy' of the F-35, they are essentially wondering how is it possible that China, for decades had to import her defense and struggled with developing indigenous weapons systems beyond the AK-47, all of a sudden built the J-20 and the J-31 whose outward appearances bears amazing similarities -- not identical -- to the American fighters.

The critics are not some ignoramuses down the streets. They are aviation experts that runs the spectrum of aviation, from military to civilians, from engineers to pilots, and even down to knowledgeable non-flying enthusiasts. They were flying or publishing papers about airplanes when you guys were still flicking boogers at each other at the playgrounds. When I did hard TFs over Scotland, you guys just discovered how good it was to fondle your own hard-ons.

Whether China did commit espionage to gain vital technical knowledge to build her 'stealth' fighters or not is for a different discussion, one that will never be satisfactorily settled, but while no one expect China to build an F-117 equivalent as proof that her 'stealth' fighter program was indigenous, no one was willing to sacrifice his credulity and accept unconditionally that China was able to leap one -- but more like two -- generation of military aviation to build the J-20 and the J-31 without assistance. The word 'assistance' here does not mean a foreign power actively and even publicly provide China with those vital technical knowledge. The word 'assistance' mean somehow China had access to knowledge that China either did not have or was struggling to develop.

Sometimes some things are so obvious that debates about them are pointless.

All is fair in love and war; Did US atomic program indigenous back in 40's? Didn't its too based on the original German Research/Technology?

 

[antonius123]

No one is talking about wholesale replication down to the bolts and rivets of the J-31 from the F-35. When people criticized the J-31 for being a 'copy' of the F-35, they are essentially wondering how is it possible that China, for decades had to import her defense and struggled with developing indigenous weapons systems beyond the AK-47, all of a sudden built the J-20 and the J-31 whose outward appearances bears amazing similarities -- not identical -- to the American fighters.

The critics are not some ignoramuses down the streets. They are aviation experts that runs the spectrum of aviation, from military to civilians, from engineers to pilots, and even down to knowledgeable non-flying enthusiasts. They were flying or publishing papers about airplanes when you guys were still flicking boogers at each other at the playgrounds. When I did hard TFs over Scotland, you guys just discovered how good it was to fondle your own hard-ons.

Whether China did commit espionage to gain vital technical knowledge to build her 'stealth' fighters or not is for a different discussion, one that will never be satisfactorily settled, but while no one expect China to build an F-117 equivalent as proof that her 'stealth' fighter program was indigenous, no one was willing to sacrifice his credulity and accept unconditionally that China was able to leap one -- but more like two -- generation of military aviation to build the J-20 and the J-31 without assistance. The word 'assistance' here does not mean a foreign power actively and even publicly provide China with those vital technical knowledge. The word 'assistance' mean somehow China had access to knowledge that China either did not have or was struggling to develop.

Sometimes some things are so obvious that debates about them are pointless.

Underestimating china capability in developing stealth fighter is totally ignorant thinking.

China has long experience in aviation and fighter a/c. If korea can do it, there is no reason that china cant do.
What make you think that Russia can do (with Pakfa) while China cant do ?
For jet engine, yes Russia has long experience while china not, but for stealth technology both are not much different, while china has pool of talent and supported by robust economic growth (means: strong budget to finance r&d).

Again, "copy" is a wrong word to use here. Copy means: almost identical or almost similar in design (not necessarily to bolt and rivet). You still can accuse Buran as a copy of Challenger due to almost similarity in shape eventhough not to the bolt and rivet - but the design show similarity. You still can call Kfir as a copy of Mirage 3 due to its resemblance indicating similar design. But you cant call J-31 as copy of F-35 because they are different by design.

You still can accuse the "subsystems" of J-31 are copies of those of F-35, but not for the plane themselves.

J-31 and F-35

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

The first flight of the F 35 was in 2006----. The J 31 --- what is it in 2015----there is an eight years gap

Pakistan should induct J-31 in early 2020s and also license the fighter to be built in Pakistan as the production of JF-17 will be phased out by then.

 

[500]

A trolling article, since how can an aircraft with twin engine being a copy of a single engine one?

Changing number of engines is not very big deal:

2 engines:

1 engine:

 

[antonius123]

Changing number of engines is not very big deal:

2 engines:

1 engine:

For whom (it is not a big deal)? and how do you know it is not a big deal?

Of course for Northrop it is not so big problem, since they are designing it (Tigershark) by themself based on their own previous design (tiger), engineers and know how. But copying other party's design is a different story especially if you copy and make some change.

 

[MastanKhan]

Underestimating china capability in developing stealth fighter is totally ignorant thinking.

China has long experience in aviation and fighter a/c. If korea can do it, there is no reason that china cant do.
What make you think that Russia can do (with Pakfa) while China cant do ?
For jet engine, yes Russia has long experience while china not, but for stealth technology both are not much different, while china has pool of talent and supported by robust economic growth (means: strong budget to finance r&d).

Again, "copy" is a wrong word to use here. Copy means: almost identical or almost similar in design (not necessarily to bolt and rivet). You still can accuse Buran as a copy of Challenger due to almost similarity in shape eventhough not to the bolt and rivet - but the design show similarity. You still can call Kfir as a copy of Mirage 3 due to its resemblance indicating similar design. But you cant call J-31 as copy of F-35 because they are different by design.

Hi,

China did not have technology for the modern day aircraft till the late 80's early 90's---till the U S aircraft company shifted the production line for some of its parts to china and gave them the technology to build the wing.

There is an old adage---give the revolutionary canons----ad you are giving them a nation----give a nation the technology behind the modern WING---and you are giving them a modern aircraft manufacturing industry.

Copy---is the right word to use---. But you still have to have some capable base technology to make it a success. There are some nations that excel in the art of copying and then there are nations who cannot build anything of purpose even with all the blue prints at hand.

Kfir is the copy of mirage3 because of the blue prints the Israelis stole from Switzerland. This copying capability has given china the springboard to use the existing design and adjust it to their abilities---like the J31---. China does not have a powerful engine like the F35's---so they have a twin engine J31---a nice compromise---but still very functional.

 

[antonius123]

Hi,

China did not have technology for the modern day aircraft till the late 80's early 90's---till the U S aircraft company shifted the production line for some of its parts to china and gave them the technology to build the wing.

There is an old adage---give the revolutionary canons----ad you are giving them a nation----give a nation the technology behind the modern WING---and you are giving them a modern aircraft manufacturing industry.

Modern or not is relative.

China has started improving mig-21 (j-7) in 1965. Then J-8 etc.
Has launched modern J-10 in 1998.

So as I said China has long experience in fighter a/c development.

J-10 is less modern than F-22, but is the same level of modernity with Flanker series.
J-11B is less modern than F-22, but on the same level with SU35.

So I would say at least China is in the same modernity with Russia for a/c fighter technology - with exception for jet engine.
Therefore there is no reason to doubt china ability in developing stealth if rusia can.

Copy---is the right word to use---. But you still have to have some capable base technology to make it a success. There are some nations that excel in the art of copying and then there are nations who cannot build anything of purpose even with all the blue prints at hand.

There is no relevance between them.

Copy means resemble. You can check in your dictionary.

Kfir is the copy of mirage3 because of the blue prints the Israelis stole from Switzerland. This copying capability has given china the springboard to use the existing design and adjust it to their abilities---like the J31---. China does not have a powerful engine like the F35's---so they have a twin engine J31---a nice compromise---but still very functional.

Not because of that at all.

Israel copy, because the Israel take almost 100% the mirage design for her kfir.

If Israel make a lot of improvement that the design is not similar anymore, then it is not a copy but stealing with improvement.

 

[MastanKhan]

Modern or not is relative.

China has started improving mig-21 (j-7) in 1965. Then J-8 etc.
Has launched modern J-10 in 1998.

So as I said China has long experience in fighter a/c development.

J-10 is less modern than F-22, but is the same level of modernity with Flanker series.
J-11B is less modern than F-22, but on the same level with SU35.

So I would say at least China is in the same modernity with Russia for a/c fighter technology - with exception for jet engine.
Therefore there is no reason to doubt china ability in developing stealth if rusia can.



There is no relevance between them.

Copy means resemble. You can check in your dictionary.




Not because of that at all.

Israel copy, because the Israel take almost 100% the mirage design for her kfir.

If Israel make a lot of improvement that the design is not similar anymore, then it is not a copy but stealing with improvement.

Sir,

Modern or not---is as relative to engineering design as day is to night. China had no experience in the development of fighter aircraft. It got the fighter aircraft from Russia and made some modification here and there---and they were not on the scale to call development.

Development happened when the Israelis gave them the design of the Levi for the J 10----when the Russians and ukranian engineers joined the Chinese aircraft industry and when boeing gave them the wing..

On a world scale---you call development when you design an F 15 or the F 16---the MIG 29's or the SU 27's---the planes that take your air force to the next plateau from the Phantoms and mig 21's and su25's---.

None of the older chinese aircraft took them to any higher plateau except keep them in the 60's technology. So---where was the development.

Russia and china have gone different ways seeking stealth---where the Russians have depended on their engineers to do the job---the Chinese have utilized other assets to get to the top.

 

[500]

For whom (it is not a big deal)? and how do you know it is not a big deal?

Of course for Northrop it is not so big problem, since they are designing it (Tigershark) by themself based on their own previous design (tiger), engineers and know how. But copying other party's design is a different story especially if you copy and make some change.

Theer was a claim that J-31 can't be a copy of F-35 because its two engine. Thats exactly like saying that F-20 cant be a copy of F-5 because its 1 engine.

 

[Keel]

Theer was a claim that J-31 can't be a copy of F-35 because its two engine. Thats exactly like saying that F-20 cant be a copy of F-5 because its 1 engine.

The accusers have to put forward more concrete and technical stuff that J-31 is "a copy or stolen tech" of F-35
Other than that no one is qualified for making the accusation

Chinese porcelain tea set

 

[axisofevil]

Relax bro ...Im just playing. Think about how and capable Iran has come given all the embargoes it has to put up with. China has tremendous access.

 

[The SC]

No one is talking about wholesale replication down to the bolts and rivets of the J-31 from the F-35. When people criticized the J-31 for being a 'copy' of the F-35, they are essentially wondering how is it possible that China, for decades had to import her defense and struggled with developing indigenous weapons systems beyond the AK-47, all of a sudden built the J-20 and the J-31 whose outward appearances bears amazing similarities -- not identical -- to the American fighters.

The critics are not some ignoramuses down the streets. They are aviation experts that runs the spectrum of aviation, from military to civilians, from engineers to pilots, and even down to knowledgeable non-flying enthusiasts. They were flying or publishing papers about airplanes when you guys were still flicking boogers at each other at the playgrounds. When I did hard TFs over Scotland, you guys just discovered how good it was to fondle your own hard-ons.

Whether China did commit espionage to gain vital technical knowledge to build her 'stealth' fighters or not is for a different discussion, one that will never be satisfactorily settled, but while no one expect China to build an F-117 equivalent as proof that her 'stealth' fighter program was indigenous, no one was willing to sacrifice his credulity and accept unconditionally that China was able to leap one -- but more like two -- generation of military aviation to build the J-20 and the J-31 without assistance. The word 'assistance' here does not mean a foreign power actively and even publicly provide China with those vital technical knowledge. The word 'assistance' mean somehow China had access to knowledge that China either did not have or was struggling to develop.

Sometimes some things are so obvious that debates about them are pointless.

It is more of a give and take in technologies than stealing it. How many Chinese graduate and post graduate students, studied in the US, they brought with them knowledge and took some too. They have contributed to thousands of researches in thousands of fields and still doing it in the US and elsewhere. So it is indeed pointless to debate about it.