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China's 294 megatons of thermonuclear deterrence

No state power is going to attack China (or the USA). It's ridiculous to even worry about it. The only use of nuclear weapons we will see is by non-state terrorists who hold no territory, and by insane nations (like Iran). And, as far as terrorist go, the only question is whether or not the state-sponsors of terrorist groups, like Iran, can hide their transfer of nuclear materials or weapons sufficiently well to escape retaliation. If the US is attacked by a dirty nuclear weapon, we should just annihilate Iran first and ask questions later.....

Why do you assume that an XYZ would attack US, do you have sufficient proof-intelligence-Iranian secret dossiers to backup your claims. IF makes your complete post rubbish.

This Maybe-IF US destroyed Iraq without any evidence. You should rather say "We should forceably remove Iranian government" Not annihilate by using IRAN you mean killing innocent population in its entirety coming from an opinionator just ridiculous below average post.
 
China is currently replacing its old liquid-fueled DF-4 IRBMs (7,000km range) with new solid-fueled DF-31A ICBMs (12,000km range).

New ICBM Brigade in Hunan? | Flashpoints

"New ICBM Brigade in Hunan?
By Mark Stokes & L.C. Russell Hsiao
October 12, 2011

syr5U.jpg


An amateur photographer recently posted a video on China’s Youku website capturing a probable Dongfeng-31A (DF-31A) convoy transiting downtown Shaoyang, a prefecture-level city in Hunan Province. The video showed a single DF-31 transporter, erector, launcher (TEL) moving north accompanied by six camouflaged support vehicles and a Public Security escort.

The DF-31(A) TEL may have been on its way to a new Second Artillery brigade headquarters facility located in the far western suburbs of the city. Formerly based in Hunan’s Tongdao County, the 805 Brigade initiated construction of new facilities in Shaoyang in 2008 and completed its relocation last year. Older facilities in Tongdao County were being dismantled in 2010.

The DF-31 and DF-31A are assumed to carry only a single nuclear warhead, which don't appear to be mated with missiles during peacetime. The 55 Base’s 905 Regiment— euphemistically referred to as an Equipment Inspection Regiment—maintains the 55 Base’s inventory of ballistic missiles and a limited number of nuclear warheads in underground facilities. The 55 Base Technical Service Regiment has responsibility for transporting warheads and missile sections from 905 Regiment depot facilities to launch brigades when ordered to do so. The brigade’s technical battalion assembles missile sections and mates them with warheads in underground facilities maintained by the brigade’s site management battalion. The missile is subsequently hoisted and loaded into the brigade’s TELs, which are rolled out to pre-surveyed launch sites. The brigade’s communications battalion is tasked with ensuring the brigade commander and political commissar maintain constant communication links internally within the brigade and externally with upper echelons.

Moving toward DF-31(A)?

The 805 Brigade is said to have previously been equipped with the liquid fueled, two staged DF-4 intermediate range ballistic missile (IRBM). With a range of at least 5,500 kilometres, the DF-4 is capable of reaching targets throughout the Asia-Pacific region, including US facilities on Guam. State media reporting indicates that the 805 Brigade began planning for the conversion to a new missile system at least as early as 2007. The conversion reflects a broader trend in the shift from liquid- to solid-fueled missiles that are road/rail-mobile, and capable of being launched more rapidly. A submarine launched variant of the DF-31, the JL-2, is still being flight-tested.

Since integrating the new missile system, the 805 Brigade has implemented an aggressive training programme. In July 2010, the brigade conducted an exercise involving rapid response, mobility, and survivability. During the second week of March 2011, the brigade carried out tactical mobility training involving night time operations under communications jamming conditions. In April this year, another exercise tested the unit’s ability to counter enemy space surveillance assets. The brigade appears to have been involved in acceptance testing in 2009, which likely involved live fire exercises, and formally introduced the new missile variant into its inventory in 2010.

Chinese government publications indicate the possible establishment of a test and evaluation unit under the 54 Base, headquartered in Luoyang, Henan Province. Located within Xinyang City in southeastern Henan, the test and evaluation unit may be introducing a new missile variant into the Second Artillery Force’s operational inventory. The US Defence Department has reported in the Military and Security Developments Involving the People’s Republic of China 2011 that China is currently developing a new road-mobile ICBM, possibly capable of carrying a multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicle (MIRV).

So what does the latest sighting suggest? The presence of the DF-31(A) convoy in Shaoyang augments reporting of the 805 Brigade’s conversion to a new missile variant, and appears to confirm the retirement of the DF-4 and initial introduction of the DF-31(A) to Hunan’s 55 Base. Beyond improved survivability, replacement of the DF-4 increases the number of nuclear warheads and delivery vehicles that could be dedicated to a regional scenario, and possibly the United States, in a crisis situation.

According to the Defence Department report, the Second Artillery had approximately 10-15 DF-31 and 10-15 DF-31A missiles in the active inventory. Each brigade is presumably equipped with 12 launchers (six launch battalions, two subordinate companies each, and with each company assigned one launcher). Estimates of China’s ICBM inventory appear to be based upon the assumption of roughly one missile per launcher (or silo). The Shaoyang brigade is likely equipped along similar lines as the first two DF-31 units.

Mark Stokes is the executive director and L.C. Russell Hsiao is a senior research fellow at The Project 2049 Institute.

Image credit: Asia Eye"
 
With the exception of a few jingoistic comments, this is an excellent thread with some good analysis.

In the end, strategic deterrence comes down to this - does a nation retain the ability to inflict crippling and catastrophic damage AFTER being attacked? If the answer is yes, then the need for thousands and thousands of warheads simply goes away. All that is needed are "adequate" reserves, especially of the SLBM variety.

At the height of the cold war, both the USSR and the USA had far more warheads than needed to retain strategic deterrence. Decades of treaties have gone into reducing these expensive and unnecessary stockpiles. Our current warhead count is a fraction of what it was in the 1960's and 1970's. Yet we are not less secure than we were then. One modern nuclear missile submarine packs more firepower than all of WW2.

China, the USA, and Russia, all retain the ability to strike back. Further, all three countries are rational players. Only when irrationality is injected into the nuclear equation is there a significant danger.

My point - no country needs a giant stockpile of strategic weapons. They don't add to the stability of international relationships at all.
 
China’s first real sea-based deterrent: successful tests of the JL-2 SLBM

Year of The Water Dragon: 12 Chinese Maritime Developments to Look for in 2012 - China Real Time Report - WSJ

"Year of The Water Dragon: 12 Chinese Maritime Developments to Look for in 2012
By Andrew Erickson and Gabe Collins
January 23, 2012, 8:40 PM HKT

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Type 092 Xia-class nuclear ballistic missile submarine (Photo credit: Associated Press)
...
– China’s first real sea-based nuclear deterrent is approaching. China’s Jin-class ballistic missile submarines remain too noisy to patrol confident that they won’t be detected by other navies’ anti-submarine platforms. However, apparently successful tests of the JL-2 submarine launched ballistic missile in December 2011 suggest China’s seaborne nuclear deterrent program is making meaningful progress."

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Chinese fisherman catches ballistic missile fragment: Voice of Russia

"Chinese fisherman catches ballistic missile fragment
Jan 11, 2012 08:41 Moscow Time

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Photo: RIA Novosti

A fisherman from China’s Shandong province caught a cylinder four meters long and two meters across while fishing in the east of the province on Wednesday.

Police experts who arrived on the scene shortly after transported the cylinder to the nearby military base.

The cylinder was later identified as a fragment of a JL-2 submarine-launched intercontinental ballistic missile.
"

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MND closely monitoring Chinese missile tests - Taipei Times

"MND closely monitoring Chinese missile tests
By J. Michael Cole / Staff Reporter
Tue, Jan 10, 2012 - Page 3

EVIDENCE? Chinese state media have reported that a fisherman in Shandong had accidentally retrieved wreckage from what may have been a missile booster

The Ministry of National Defense yesterday said it was closely monitoring the situation amid reports that China had test-fired Julang-2 (JL-2) submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBM) before the New Year.

Chinese military bulletin boards recently lit up with reports that the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Navy might have test fired as many as six JL-2 SLBMs near Dalian in Liaoning Province, China.


At least two Type 094, or Jin-class, submarines in China’s Northern Fleet are known to operate out of Xiaopingdao Submarine Base close to Dalian.

China plans to introduce up to five Type 094 second-generation nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN) armed with JL-2 missiles. Each Type 094 submarine can carry as many as 12 missiles.

The JL-2, designed by China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp’s 4th Academy, is a solid-propellant derivative of the Dong Feng 31 (DF-31) intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM).

The JL-2, one of China’s three long-range strategic missiles, has a maximum range estimated at 8,000km and can carry a thermonuclear warhead with a yield ranging from 25 kilotons to 1,000 kilotons, or about 80 times the force of the nuclear device dropped on Hiroshima in 1945.


Contacted for comment yesterday, Ministry of National Defense spokesman Colonel David Lo (羅紹和) said the military was aware of the reports that China had tested the JL-2 and would pay close attention to further development of the missile. However, he would not confirm nor deny that the tests had actually taken place.

Lo’s comments were the closest to official confirmation by Taiwan’s military that the PLA Navy may have carried out the missile test, less than three weeks before Taiwanese head for the polls on Saturday.

So far official Chinese media and the Chinese military have not confirmed rumors of the exercise. Missile tests carried out by the PLA in March 1996 to pressure Taiwanese as they headed into their first direct presidential election in the nation’s history are generally believed to have backfired on China and boosted support for then-president Lee Teng-hui (李登輝).

However, the state-owned Chinese-language Global Times reported yesterday that a Chinese fisherman in Shandong Province had retrieved cylindrical wreckage from what appeared to be a missile booster, which could provide confirmation of the SLBM test.

Rick Fisher, a senior fellow at the International Assessment and Strategy Center in Washington, told the Washington Times last week that the tests would clearly demonstrate that after several years of development and delays, the PLA Navy is now able to launch submarine-based ballistic missiles “at a near wartime frequency.”

“If these reports are true, then the [Type] 094 submarine is ready for the PLA version of deterrence patrols, which could commence this year,” he said.

“This number of successful tests would also indicate that the PLA has, at long last, resolved whatever issues were preventing this missile from achieving ‘operational’ status,” the paper quoted him as saying.


The US Department of Defense’s annual report on the PLA stated that once it is deployed, the Type 094/JL-2 combination would constitute China’s first real sea-based deterrent, a capability that could give Beijing the means to discourage the US from intervening on behalf of Taiwan.

Additional reporting by Rich Chang"
 
On another forum, I have been asked to explain why China is modernizing its thermonuclear forces. I had assumed everyone knew the reason. China is modernizing its ICBM thermonuclear forces to deter a hostile foreign power.

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China protests against U.S. spy flights near its coast | Reuters

"Jul 26, 2011 – BEIJING (Reuters) - China warned that recent U.S. surveillance flights near the Chinese coast have severely harmed strategic mutual trust and ..."

Assessing China

"Sep 5, 2011 – U.S. reconnaissance flights occur along China's entire coast. As the Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Michael G. Mullen, noted ..."

Encounters Routine for U.S. Patrol Missions - Los Angeles Times

"Apr 2, 2001 – For five decades, American planes have been flying patrol missions off the Chinese coast, U.S. military experts say--and China's air force has been regularly sending ... 'It's not just against China--we do this around the world.' ..."

Untitled Document

"The Eight-Nation Alliance. Due to the Boxers Rebellion (Yihetuan) , Japan joined forces with the other 7 nations (Britain, AMERICA, Germany, France, Russia, ...) [to invade China]"
 
China, the USA, and Russia, all retain the ability to strike back. Further, all three countries are rational players. Only when irrationality is injected into the nuclear equation is there a significant danger.
No nuclear country should ever have the ability to completely destroy any of its opponent(s) because given enough time, any such country will sooner or later get a complete moron into power who will consider launching an unprovoked, 1st strike nuclear attack. Only the absolute guarantee of nuclear retribution would convincingly dissuade such a moronic leader from doing the unthinkable. That's why nuclear disarmament should only apply to the United States and Russia because they are the only nuclear weapon states with enough nukes to annihilate their opponents.
 
No nuclear country should ever have the ability to completely destroy any of its opponent(s) because given enough time, any such country will sooner or later get a complete moron into power who will consider launching an unprovoked, 1st strike nuclear attack. Only the absolute guarantee of nuclear retribution would convincingly dissuade such a moronic leader from doing the unthinkable. That's why nuclear disarmament should only apply to the United States and Russia because they are the only nuclear weapon states with enough nukes to annihilate their opponents.
And we have been reducing our nuclear weapons stockpiles. But while we are in that process and progress, does that mean others must proliferate via increasing their own nuclear weapons stockpiles and/or assist others in the same? If yes, then what is the point of reduction in the first place?
 
And we have been reducing our nuclear weapons stockpiles. But while we are in that process and progress, does that mean others must proliferate via increasing their own nuclear weapons stockpiles and/or assist others in the same? If yes, then what is the point of reduction in the first place?
It saves US the money from having to keep the stockpile. While for China, with fraction of the number of nuclear warheads/delivery system, reducing its small arsenal is silly. MAD requires a credible deterrence, one which US exceeded while China is lacking.
 
It saves US the money from having to keep the stockpile. While for China, with fraction of the number of nuclear warheads/delivery system, reducing its small arsenal is silly. MAD requires a credible deterrence, one which US exceeded while China is lacking.
So you advocate nuclear weapons proliferation. Do not be shy. Say so.
 
No nuclear country should ever have the ability to completely destroy any of its opponent(s) because given enough time, any such country will sooner or later get a complete moron into power who will consider launching an unprovoked, 1st strike nuclear attack. Only the absolute guarantee of nuclear retribution would convincingly dissuade such a moronic leader from doing the unthinkable. That's why nuclear disarmament should only apply to the United States and Russia because they are the only nuclear weapon states with enough nukes to annihilate their opponents.

A rational nation does not allow any single person, regardless of posting or position, to turn the nuclear key.

If some rogue U.S. President decided to nuke Russia with no provocation, no logical reason, just because he's nuts, the order would not be obeyed.
 
So you advocate nuclear weapons proliferation. Do not be shy. Say so.
Mighty hilarious since American stockpile is at least several times greater than that of China. Why don't you just admit you want other nations to be disarmed so you can rob them whenever you wish.
 
I hope that nobody should ever be able to make an effective nuclear missile shield.

This looks like the only solution to keep the world peace.

In the mean time, proxy wars will continue screwing the non-developed nations.:frown:
 
Holy Crap...a 294 megaton nuke (thats even more than the Tsar Bomba, me thinks).

Someone is preparing for a big barbeque...I hope I'm invited.
 

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