China to supply FC-1/JF-17 fighters to Azerbaijan

[Developereo]

So in the calculation of profit sharing, these non financial items should be valued according to their put forth to the project and because of immense contribution, the majority of profit would go to China. Its a simple commerce...

As a joint 50-50 business venture, Pakistan would get 50% of the net profit. The net profit would be calculated after expenses and costs, most of which may be incurred in China, at least in the beginning.

 

[Storm Force]

Both the J10 & JF17 are chinease war planes regardless of whom paid wat. Everybody knows that Chinease are pushing both planes (no mention of pakistan profit) in recent media. This profit split is just made up on this forum.

Without a chinease radar and chinease MISSLES or indeed a russian Engine pakistan can,t sell just a tail or a fuselage.

Why wud any country be it bangldesh or Sri lanks go to pakistan when they can go striaght to the manufacturer.

Why wud saudi arabia by a $12m low budget mid tech plane wen they can easily buy $100m Typhoon or F15 Eagles ???

Like the guy said first get your 200 THUNDERS for PAF then worry about building up export to Africans and whom ever else wants Thunder

 

[TaimiKhan]

im not so sure about that, coz one PAF officer (can't remember whom) once said that JF-17 and FC-1 are two different planes, just like chinese J7 and russian Mig-21. as up until now, not a single FC-1 is being constructed, so how can we distinguish the two.
secondly, may be chinese products are cheap, but not that cheap. 1 billion to develop a new plane is almost impossible, see how much india has spent on LCA. so i'm much more convinced that the 50-50 is only about some components of the plane not the whole plane. therefore,
FC1= the some components + PLAAF requested components;
JF-17 = the some components + PAF requested components.

PS: except the quoting of the PAF officer, everything else is no more then a big guess, fell free to correct it.

I don't get it that why is it so hard for you or other to understand that FC-1/JF-17 are same aircraft, if avionics are changed or fitted of different origin does not means the structure or internal structure of the aircrafts changes too. FC-1/JF-17 are same aircraft structure wise, only difference would be the avionics which will differentiate it with respect to variants and the name can be given to it anything. The PAF guy said JF-17 would be different to FC-1 in the avionics field, not physical structure & design wise. That was the same difference with J-7 & F-7, avionics differed, not the engine or design or structure or even the material of the aircraft.

F-16I Sufa, is an Israeli version with more then 50% Israeli Avionics, it doesn't means it is not F-16. Just read the F-16 page and wikipedia to get a grip on what is the difference between difference versions and what names are given to it by the countries who are producing it locally.

Hope this solves your query of the difference between FC-1 & JF-17

 

[MastanKhan]

Both the J10 & JF17 are chinease war planes regardless of whom paid wat. Everybody knows that Chinease are pushing both planes (no mention of pakistan profit) in recent media. This profit split is just made up on this forum.



Sir,

Would either of the govts. be seeking your esteemed permission to split up the profit---I guess not. So why not let us live in our dellusions for the time being---if we get the money---there will be egg on your face---if not---at least we were happy for awhile and you can have your party.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Both the J10 & JF17 are chinease war planes regardless of whom paid wat. Everybody knows that Chinease are pushing both planes (no mention of pakistan profit) in recent media. This profit split is just made up on this forum.

Without a chinease radar and chinease MISSLES or indeed a russian Engine pakistan can,t sell just a tail or a fuselage.

Why wud any country be it bangldesh or Sri lanks go to pakistan when they can go striaght to the manufacturer.

Why wud saudi arabia by a $12m low budget mid tech plane wen they can easily buy $100m Typhoon or F15 Eagles ???

Like the guy said first get your 200 THUNDERS for PAF then worry about building up export to Africans and whom ever else wants Thunder

In the last IDEAS 2008 held in Karachi, JF-17 was shown to delegates by PAC and not by PAF or by the Chinese Manufacturer, does it rings any bell why it was done so ?? Why as per the IDEAS news reports around 8 countries showed interest in JF-17, that JF-17 which was parked at the stall of PAC ??

If you have made up your mind as shown by the above post, that is something else, but the above referred fact clearly demonstrates that PAC on its on can do the marketing and bag orders, that is why it was shown by PAC at an international defence & arms exhibition, but the catch would be that the final contract would be signed as a joint one, meaning Chinese manufacturer would also be involved.

The picture below clearly demonstrates the fact, enlarge the pic and see what the information boards says at the end.

http://www.defence.pk/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/6133

Here is another one of PAC stands showing the old design of JF-17 at some international exhibition.

http://www.strategycenter.net/imgLib/20041101_8JF17.jpg

Can Boeing show a F-16 at its stall on any international air or defence show ?? OR can LM show a Euro Fighter Typhoon at any air show or do marketing for it ?? Answer is Simple NO, a YES only if an agreement is there between them. So same is the case here that PAC can market JF-17 to anyone it wants, and get into negotiations.

PAC has built a huge infrastructure for the JF-17 production line, for the time being 50% of the airframe would be built here for now to be increased to 100% in a couple of years, with some good percentage of avionics too, later to go to around 80% of the total. Meaning 100% airframe and 80% avionics would be manufactured at PAC in a few years time. If you look at the JF-17 thread on the forum, you will see the pictures of the production line infrastructure and it is quiet huge considering PAF only needs 250-300 aircraft and its capacity of 25+ aircraft per year is also huge as per its standards. So this huge investment in the infrastructure means it is looking for a share in the production order whether it gets them on its own or China gets the order. So when it will get a share of the order, means it will get a share of the revenue too, may be no 50%, but definitely a major share, considering it invested half of the development money and was the major backer of the project and it was PAF ambition which gave a new life to this project and JF-17/FC-1 was born, if China has made the physical aircraft doesn't means PAF or PAC had no role in the design or input in the final output.

Rest upto you that what you think.

 

[Quwa]

Bear in mind that the PAF has a very big requirement of 250~300 JF-17s over the next 6~10 years. In other words, PAC will be busy and exports need not be a huge priority. If anything, the biggest customers will likely produce the JF-17 domesticaly, i.e. Pakistan & Egypt...whereas the smaller ones will acquire theirs through the Chinese production line. Other than profits, exports will help drive the JF-17's airframe and engine costs down - giving the PAF a lot of flexibility in terms of considering engine, radar, avionics, etc, upgrades.

 

[PakShaheen79]

This is indeed a very good news. I don't care who keep the profit it will help the project in a big way and that is what matters most for me.

 

[ironman]

As a joint 50-50 business venture, Pakistan would get 50% of the net profit. The net profit would be calculated after expenses and costs, most of which may be incurred in China, at least in the beginning.

How about 5% ? I think this is the most realistic margin.

 

[TaimiKhan]

How about 5% ? I think this is the most realistic margin.

Whatever makes you guys happy is acceptable to us. No worries

 

[ironman]

Whatever makes you guys happy is acceptable to us. No worries

Isn't that good, a little bit fact in a long list of fanboy claims..

 

[TaimiKhan]

Isn't that good, a little bit fact in a long list of fanboy claims..

No doubt Sir.

 

[Sapper]

How about 5% ? I think this is the most realistic margin.

I have a Sony notebook, VGN-AW235J/B to be exact.

It has
1. Intell motherboard & processor (third party)
2. 2 x Hitachi HDDs (third party)
3. Nvidia graphics card (third party)
4. Sony display (made in Japan)
5. Sony battery (made in China)
6. Sony body and metal work (made in China)
7. Third party RAM (don't remember manufacturer but its not sony)
8. Third party Blue Ray Drive
9. Most of the ports and cards/chips (network, wireless, HDMI, Tuner) are also third party products.
10 . And if you open it, 95% of the components don't have Sony written on any of them

But still, it is a Sony product, and sony bags the majority of the profit after every parts manufacturer (called OEMs) have bagged their own part's profit. It is because the "SONY" company holds the license to combine these products in one single UNIQUE package and market it under its own name.

Even if Sony releases the license to some other company to "license built" their own, Sony will still bag a major portion of profits just because of the license. It will still be a Sony product.

I hope you can implement the same analogy to JF-17, but with an exception that the license is "Co-Owned" by Pakistan and China (just like Sony-Erricson, Fujitsu-Siemens etc).

Regards,
Sapper

 

[Developereo]

The best part of the JF-17/FC-1 saga is watching the anti-Pakistan haters squish and squirm to try and downplay Pakistan's contribution.

As taimi and Mastan have said, whatever makes these guys sleep better at night.

Just knowing that this is burning them up is a delight in itself!

 

[ghazi52]

The best part of the JF-17/FC-1 saga is watching the anti-Pakistan haters squish and squirm to try and downplay Pakistan's contribution.

As taimi and Mastan have said, whatever makes these guys sleep better at night.

Just knowing that this is burning them up is a delight in itself!

Just a perfect reply.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The saudi govt can buy whatever 100 million dollar plane that it can layits hands on---but they don't need all those big ticket items all the time as well.

There will always be a need for the low end item as well---because of the transition from low end machine to high end, cost effectiveness.

A lots of customers will come for the plane just because of the fact it is flown by paf---once they believe that paf has its trust in this plane to take on the might of the iaf, the decision would be easy top be made.

As the JF 17 / FC 1 is flying in pak colors, that is where most of the interest would be headed towards, naturally. Interested buyers---they have their eyes glued to the results and performance of this machine.