China to provide 4 new F-22P frigates to Pakistan

[seethru]

For free? can anyone explain to me the economics of this deal. Chinese may be?

 

[araz]

For free? can anyone explain to me the economics of this deal. Chinese may be?

What you are asking for has not been revealed to the public at the moment. As a rule I would expect the price to be in the same region as the original deal. Any offsets achieved by producing 2 ships locally would be compromised by the changes that the PN wants.So even though actual figures are not available they would be in the same ball park.
Araz

 

[Penguin]

in a war scenario, I dont think Paf will be able to provide cover to PN, it will leave PN on its own just like it did in '71, so PN will have to increase its own capabilities

You can't look at the services as if they are independent. The services do not decide on their own budget, your DoD does. PN might want to increase its own capabilities but is part of a larger organizational context ('the military', 'government'). There is no 'have to', only choices. Did PAF willfully abandon PN, or was PAF otherwise engaged. (< that's a problem to deal with if/when facing a numerically superior foe)?

 

[Penguin]

1) Can a ship the size of an Azmat Class FAC be fitted with nothing other than a powerful radar & the power source to power it without any of the other weapons or crew quarters on board to serve as purely as something of a marine equivalent of what an AWAC would be ? Or is that beyond ludicrous to have a radar ship type thing ?

You could (but why would you if/when you could have an aircraft doing that. This is what MPA's do [assuming your focus is on detecting opponent ships])
See Radar picket - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2) How much would it roughly cost to have both sufficient ground based SAM batteries & powerful radars to back it up to provide sufficient Aircover in case of war assuming that baring the subs most of our assets would be operating close by ?

Just put Russia's S-400 on you coast, this gives you a SAM that can reach out and touch air threats out to 400km.
A regular S-400 battalion consists of at least eight launchers with 32 missiles and a mobile command post. The S-400's radar[which?] is capable of tracking over 100 targets at ranges of over 600 km (370 mi), and engaging up to 12 of these targets at varying ranges, depending on the missile used
400 km (40N6 missile)
250 km (48N6 missile)
120 km (9M96 missile)

3) Couldn't a sort of a hybrid between an F-22P armed with a stronger radar & another F-22P armed with a good SAM system interface with each other & work-in-tandem ? Perhaps even top it up with another F-22P having specialized anti-sub capabilities & have a 3 or 4 ship flotilla of these three configuration operating with a lone Agosta 90B and 3-4 Azmat Classes in a blockade denial mode operating close to shore ! Perhaps even having 3-4 of such flotillas in the future ! Would that make sense ?

That's the idea behind Cooperative Engagement Capability. It is alo ocmparable to how RN used to deploy Type 42 (Sea Dart) with Type 22 (Sea Wolf) as a combo. We all know what happened to HmS Sheffield...

 

[Nishan_101]

I wish that the new ships will going to have all the latest tech available in China and we will going to get 4 of these and then build similar 3 of these at home, in order to replace the Type-21s and to increase the power as well. I am hopeful that OHP will going to be gifted to Turkish by US that are present in Pakistan...

 

[Penguin]

First of all check your language boy. Pak Navy knows better what they need to do & what they want. What I had written does not mean Pak Navy should buy it, ok boy.

You were asked a civil question in a civil manner. IMHO there is no need to use the above tone. As the French say "C'est le ton qui fait la musique"....

 

[Gentelman]

Bhai.
Explain to this old fool how you are going to buy and maintain such big ships and what is your logic behind this statement
In the current environment you want ships that suit your budget and give you the capability that you need
. Also unlike planes ships need yrs to get used to and use effectively,therefore the sense in useing the same design. I think 052s are more suitable for a blue water navy and their role itself in PLAN is being debated as it is moving more towards054s rather than 052. Lastly I would find a possible attrition of an F22P a lot less demoralising than 052.
Araz

he loved those typ 052 wallapers personally thats why he wany PN to induce them....
well by the way which ship is superior in air defence??typ 052 or F22/p??

 

[fatman17]

there is much confusion related to this thread. one report states that 2 F-22P's will be built at Karachi dockyards and 2 at chinese dockyards, or only 2 at karachi. i would go for the latter.

For free? can anyone explain to me the economics of this deal. Chinese may be?

soft loans long-term. china dosnt give anything for free.

 

[Armstrong]

there is much confusion related to this thread. one report states that 2 F-22P's will be built at Karachi dockyards and 2 at chinese dockyards, or only 2 at karachi. i would go for the latter.



soft loans long-term. china dosnt give anything for free.

Are we that broke ? Do we not realize that, unless we manage this to the last cent, a time may come when a huge chunk of our military budget will go towards debt-servicing instead of acquisitions & the sort.

 

[fatman17]

Are we that broke ? Do we not realize that, unless we manage this to the last cent, a time may come when a huge chunk of our military budget will go towards debt-servicing instead of acquisitions & the sort.

it already is being diverted for debt servicing. the last installment of US1.18B CSF funds was used to payoff the circular debt as well as reducing the budgetary deficit.

debt servicing and tax evasion/siphoning by FBR wallas are the two main 'chunks' where our tax/aid/csf receipts are being diverted to.

 

[shabzy]

I thought we had a urgency of aquiring further subs? Is there any future plans for

 

[TheRafael00000]

For free? can anyone explain to me the economics of this deal. Chinese may be?

Russia used to give India free flaw of weapons in 1950s to 1970s. It's all Military alliance.

 

[Ibr0kEmYrAz0r]

he loved those typ 052 wallapers personally thats why he wany PN to induce them....
well by the way which ship is superior in air defence??typ 052 or F22/p??

Those 052c wallpapers are not good, too fuzzy/grainy.

I prefer these F-22P wallpapers, looking pretty from these angles.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Anyway you look at it , its astonishing that Pakistan Navy has incresed their potential by 100% in last 4 years in every aspect
The 12 F22P frigates have given Pakistani Navy respect and honor that they deserved

The NAVY will be a formidable force with introduction of Submarines and Type 054 destroyers in future

 

[truthseeker2010]

it already is being diverted for debt servicing. the last installment of US1.18B CSF funds was used to payoff the circular debt as well as reducing the budgetary deficit.

debt servicing and tax evasion/siphoning by FBR wallas are the two main 'chunks' where our tax/aid/csf receipts are being diverted to.

Sir... Isn't that alarming because the CSF will continue till the US is here... which might be up to 2014, after that the military will be on its own... and the budget IMO will not be able to increase to a level required to cover up the amount because of the current affairs of the economy.....