China to help Pakistan modernize it's army in the future

[Khafee]

That's applying dumb logic. It's not a absolute. There are exceptions. There is a strong corellation not absolute corellation in drill.

It suggests a highly trained force. It suggests discipline. It suggests precision. It suggests organization. All aspects important in war.

There is "zero" correlation between parades,and discipline in the field. But who am I to argue with a "think tank"!!!!

Btw have you ever served in the forces?

 

[Viper0011.]

Oh COMMON!!!! Someone needs to buy these soldiers some APC's!!!! Why risk these soldier on open bikes like this? Such easy target for the bad guys. The bikes make no sense. Whichever country this is, they have got to spend a million or two and buy Jeeps at the least. Poor soldiers, so unprotected!!

 

[Khafee]

why would china tell Pakistan Army to reduce its Troops? our Troop size according to our Needs is Pretty Neat!
Chinese President Recently Reduced chinese army soldiers From 2285,000 to 1985000.
our active Duty soldiers are 550,000 only.

Just for the record, PA is currently somewhere between 630,000 to 650,000. Reserves are in excess of 550,000

 

[Pangu]

I don't think we are going to be teaching Pakistan how to fight in their own backyard. More likely, help modernising Pakistan's training assets, to perhaps, include more technologies in their training aid & streamline procedures, logistical aspect & such. I think as the economic corridor gets under way in full earnest, our militaries will begin bigger & deeper joint training to safeguard the lifeline, this is, IMO, the beginning step in stepping up certain interoperational ability bewteen the two militaries... Just my opinion.

 

[The Sandman]

This what you call a pure disciplined and professional army

 

[Indus Pakistan]

who am I

I am nonplussed. You are the "you" and you are asking me? You tell me? And if you don't know who you are, you got problems.

Btw have you ever served in the forces?

No. I am too cowardly. I prefer being a armchair general. This is where you can gain on me by claiming you have. So what were you? Super dooper special forces? Staff officer at GHQ?

@DesertFox97 Yes, I agree the Germans had a hell of drill and discipline.

 

[Development C&P]

I love this "hell march".

and this

It would be great if PA adopted the same drill and marching style. Uniforms are great as well.

about "hell march"~

Recommend this video~

pace and mouth related music to consistency

 

[Yazp]

Going by your logic of "military parades are a reflection of how coordinated they are when fighting", the USSR should never have lost in Afghanistan.

The USSR lost because Israel and America backed us with their money. Without their money, we might not have won, and at the same time Afghanistan would not be the shit hole we turned it into.

Don't overestimate ANY armed force, including our own. We have many hardworking heros and champions, but claiming we're the best armed force is an unrealistic idea
. We did not do much, besides arming/training people in Afghanistan with AKM and AK47s, (Most of which was donated to Pakistan by Israel for arming the Mujahideen, captured from the Arabs in the Yom-Kippur war) I saw a police issued AK with David's star along with a Y in it. No Idea how the Israelis were dumb enough to send re-stamped AKs...


Pakistan never went full on with the Soviets, and the only time that I know they did, the result was this:

 

[Khafee]

The USSR lost because Israel and America backed us with their money. Without their money, we might not have won, and at the same time Afghanistan would not be the shit hole we turned it into.

Don't overestimate ANY armed force, including our own. We have many hardworking heros and champions, but claiming we're the best armed force is an unrealistic idea
. We did not do much, besides arming/training people in Afghanistan with AKM and AK47s, (Most of which was donated to Pakistan by Israel for arming the Mujahideen, captured from the Arabs in the Yom-Kippur war) I saw a police issued AK with David's star along with a Y in it. No Idea how the Israelis were dumb enough to send re-stamped AKs...


Pakistan never went full on with the Soviets, and the only time that I know they did, the result was this:
View attachment 272726

1) Money is part of the solution, not the complete package.

2) Israel did NOT support you, they SOLD you hardware via the US at exorbitant markups. Just like they SOLD you F-16 parts via Europe, with a 200% markup during the Pressler years.

3) Over estimating and underestimating, is something civilians on this forum do to pass time.

4) You claiming Pakistan, not to have done much, exposes your grasp of ground realities. The only thing missing was the PA in uniform, without their support and sacrifices, the Russians would still be there, money or no money.

5) The two most positive things that came out of the Afghan war were:
a) The unrestricted development of Pakistan's nuclear program
b) PA becoming an expert at the most difficult warfare, i.e. Guerrilla warfare

6) Afghan is a hell hole today, not because of Pakistan, but because it's leaders are drug lords, or the most greedy power hungry monsters on the planet, or both!! The most important quality called "sincerity" is non-existent in their leadership.

7) IF you do not know of any Pak - USSR engagements, best not to let the world know about it. Very good of you to highlight an encounter in which the Pakistani side presumably did badly, ignoring how ultimately they won.

 

[Signalian]

Pakistan Army needs Modernization in the following areas:

Artillery:

PA Arty is composed of obsolete 105mm,122mm,130mm and 155mm weapon systems as well as 203mm. There are WW2 era 155mm and 203mm systems still operational.

Towed Guns:

M115 is 203mm designed in 1939 with range of 17 km . 28 pieces in use

M114 is 155mm designed in 1940 with range of 14.6 km, M-198 is its replacement. 144 pieces in use

M59 is 155mm designed in 1930 with range of 23 km. 30 pieces in use

OTO Melara Mod 56 is Italian 105mm pack howitzer for mountain use with range of 10 km. 50 pieces in use

M101 is 105mm designed in 1940 with range of 11 km. 250 pieces in use.

M56 is 105mm designed in 1956 with range of 13 km. 113 guns in use

Type 60 is 122mm designed in 1950 (soviet origin) with range of 24 km. 200 guns in use.

Type 54 is 122mm designed in 1938 (soviet origin) with range of 13.8 km. 490 guns in use.

The gun which has been praised by every artillery officer and soldier due to its range and effectiveness in southern kashmir region is Type 59-I.

Type 59-I is 130mm designed in 1954 (soviet origin) with range of 28 km. 410 guns in use.

The pride of the place in Towed Arty is :

MKEK Panter is 155mm designed in late 1990's with range of 18 km extending to 40 km. 72 in use. Can move on its own.

M198 is 155mm designed in 1968 with range of 22 km. 144 guns in use.

1300 PA Arty Guns need replacement if Type 59-I is not counted.

Panter is the suitable replacement for all these old guns, however it will take alot of time to replace so China must assist Pakistan in not only producing a 155mm caliber gun in HIT but also supply modern 155mm towed systems from its arsenal to replace old systems.


Self Propelled Arty:

M110 howitzer is 203 mm designed in 1960 with range of 17 km to 22 km. 40 guns in use

M109A2 is 155mm designed in 1960, upgraded with time as weapon system was potent, range is 18 km. 150 guns in use. To be upgraded to A5.

M109A5 range is 23.5 km, 115 guns in use.

NORINCO SH1 is 155mm designed in 2002 with up to 50 km range. 90 in use.

PA should loom at PLZ-05 replacement from china with range of 50 km as replacement for M-110 and if more SP regiments are to be brought up for use in terrain where tracked chassis is required.


Aviation:

Bell 206 inventory is 15 and can carry 4 troops

AS550 inventory is 20 and can carry 4 troops

Bell 407 inventory is 45 and can carry 6 troops

Bell 412 inventory is 25 and can carry 13 troops

Puma inventory is 30 and can carry 16 troops

UH-1 inventory is 30 and can carry 14 Troops

Mi-17 inventory is 90 and can carry 28 Troops

Thats a wide array of different types of helicopters. PAA should negotiate licenses for producing Mi-17 for medium lift and Z-9 for light transport, SAR, Recon and light attack, Z-9 has a decent capacity to transport 10 troops. This way PAA will be reduced of logistical burden of flying different type of helo.

Air Defence:

HQ-9 definitely.

There are many other SP versions of SAM AD available.

HQ-12/KS-1. Maximum range: > 50 km Maximum altitude: > 25 km basically S-75 on wheels with Phased array radar
HQ-16A , based on SA-17
HQ-17, similar to Tor M-1

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

China will jointly collaborate with the Pakistan defence ministry to start a new modernize it's army budget in 2016, the budget will be spended on the white paper defence according to chinese report. It is estimated the defence is around 300 million US dollars. China will help conduct Pakistan military drills onwards in 2016,
improve the training. Pakistan will procure new & used weapons from Russia and China, tenders for the missiles would start next year to showcase upgraded SAM and devices. Pakistan is searching new equipment such as additional Type 053g missile frigates from PLAN, TY-90, HQ-9, wing-loong drone and such others.

Our Army is pretty modern, we need to focus on factors other than Infantry; i can easily say that our Infantry is a decade ahead of Indian Infantry.

 

[Mitro]

So when the goodies arriving ?

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

The USSR lost because Israel and America backed us with their money. Without their money, we might not have won, and at the same time Afghanistan would not be the shit hole we turned it into.

Don't overestimate ANY armed force, including our own. We have many hardworking heros and champions, but claiming we're the best armed force is an unrealistic idea
. We did not do much, besides arming/training people in Afghanistan with AKM and AK47s, (Most of which was donated to Pakistan by Israel for arming the Mujahideen, captured from the Arabs in the Yom-Kippur war) I saw a police issued AK with David's star along with a Y in it. No Idea how the Israelis were dumb enough to send re-stamped AKs...


Pakistan never went full on with the Soviets, and the only time that I know they did, the result was this:
View attachment 272726

Most of the Casualties were of the Mujahideen, not the SSG; SSG were in small numbers basically acting as commanding officers. Pakistan sent in thousands of soldiers disguised as Mujahideen, Pakistan shot down over a dozen Soviet planes, Pakistan held off several Soviet/Afghan incursions, SSG were responsible for clearing valleys filled with Soviets and your telling me we did not go "full".

 

[Super Falcon]

Time to strengthen navy and air defence and cargo planes which are based on 30 yrs old C 130 we need bigg heavy lifters and halis

 

[Signalian]

Time to strengthen navy and air defence and cargo planes which are based on 30 yrs old C 130 we need bigg heavy lifters and halis

Add Y-9 transport aircraft from China.