China to have 4 aircraft carriers, 18 Type 055 destroyers, and 300 J-20 by 2025

[Beast]

The world believes that the CVN is the symbol of might.

That's why building the CVN has more strategic meaning than the CV.

I know that our ASBM is powerful enough to decimate all US carrier battle groups, but by reaching into that point, we would be at the brink of a global nuclear war.

That's why I start to think that the benefit of building the CVN would be an important symbol to boost China's military technology, and more countries will feel safe to trade with us.

Your point of view is more for prestige but China always do the practical thing. Our EM Catapult is enough to let the world know the prowess of Chinese tech since the one onboard Gerald Ford and JF Kennedy are faulty one based on wrong theory. I am sure, US will either go back conventional steam catapult or go Chinese way which will take another 10 years of development.

Ma Weming concept for EM catapult is the correct one to go and will be showed onboard Type003 carrier. Be it nuclear or conventional is not important. The core technology is catapult.

China doesn’t even have the advanced naval aviation component to complete such a network. The US has the F-35 B/C and E2-D. China has no such network.

Its only your ignorant that you think China do not have...

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2018-05-08/china-reveals-another-growler

https://www.popsci.com/kj-600-china-plane/

The only thing lacking is stealth which we are working on J-31 variant for carrier.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Your point of view is more for prestige but China always do the practical thing. Our EM Catapult is enough to let the world know the prowess of Chinese tech since the one onboard Gerald Ford and JF Kennedy are faulty one based on wrong theory. I am sure, US will either go back conventional steam catapult or go Chinese way which will take another 10 years of development.

Ma Weming concept for EM catapult is the correct one to go and will be showed onboard Type003 carrier. Be it nuclear or conventional is not important. The core technology is catapult.

You are right, CCP will do the practical thing.

However, if our nuclear reactor for the supercarrier is really adequate, then the Type 003 will indeed be a CVN.

This is not alien technology, just an old earthling technology from the past.

When the waterline beam of the Type 003 has been revealed to be at least over 40 meters, even 41 meters. This shows that CCP is very confident to surprise the world.

 

[obj 705A]

Yep, it has been started, it is a sister ship to the Type 003.

China is planning to have four Type 003 class supercarriers as the first step, possibly all nuclear powered.

wait is there actually any proof (or at least some leaks) of a fourth being constructed?

 

[Surya 1]

This is a big number. Good luck to China.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

wait is there actually any proof (or at least some leaks) of a fourth being constructed?

Yep, the module will be revealed by summer 2020 when the third one take in shape of a supercarrier.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Pretty powerful fleet that will easily be No. 2 in the world by then.

PLAN is No. 2 in the world RIGHT NOW.

Lets say you guys put all 52C+52D+055+054A out in the Pacific that would be like carrying how many missiles?

VLS count.

055 1*112 = 112
052D 12*64 = 768
052C 6*48 = 288
051C 2*48 = 96
054A 30*32 = 960
051B 1*32 = 32

2,256 VLS cells.

China has this RIGHT NOW.

When China develops a battle network as advanced as NIFCA-CA, let me know.

Chinese NIFC-CA.

It is just an integrated fire control system.

Our navy just doesn't have that fancy name.

Our naval ships and aircrafts/drones can easily guide for each other.

Correct. NIFC-CA is nothing more than the use of data-links to provide every aircraft, ship, and in some cases missiles(SM-6) with an integrated picture of the entire battlespace.

China doesn’t even have the advanced naval aviation component to complete such a network. The US has the F-35 B/C and E2-D. China has no such network.

Wrong.

 

[UKBengali]

PLAN is No. 2 in the world RIGHT NOW.

How did you figure this out buddy?

Let us compare PLAN with the UK's Royal Navy.

1 * Queen Elizabeth Carrier with 18 F-35Bs available - these would outmatch both of your carriers with the obsolete J-15s. They will blow the J-15s out of water way before they knew what hit them. They can also get pretty close and launch deadly missile volleys at your fleet with their stealth features.

2. 3 * Astute class - the best SSN in the world along with Seawolf - these would hunt your subs and surface fleet with impunity. The 3 * Trafalgass class boats are are at least as good or little better than your Type-093B SSNs and would also be a deadly threat.

3. 6 * Type-45 destroyers - has the best radar system in the world and good luck trying to get past this screen after surviving the F-35Bs and the Astutes.


So China is a whole generation behind the 18 F-35Bs and the 3 Astute class which will have a field day hunting PLAN aircraft, surface ships and submarines. The 3 * Trafalgar class and 6 * Type-45 destroyers are also a little better than anything that China has.

Yes the Royal Navy would take a beating in an open ocean battle but the PLAN will go down totally to the bottom of the ocean.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

How did you figure this out buddy?

Let us compare PLAN with the UK's Royal Navy.

1 * Queen Elizabeth Carrier with 18 F-35Bs available - these would outmatch both of your carriers with the obsolete J-15s. They will blow the J-15s out of water way before they knew what hit them. They can also get pretty close and launch deadly missile volleys at your fleet with their stealth features.

2. 3 * Astute class - the best SSN in the world along with Seawolf - these would hunt your subs and surface fleet with impunity. The 3 * Trafalgass class boats are are at least as good or little better than your Type-093B SSNs and would also be a deadly threat.

3. 6 * Type-45 destroyers - has the best radar system in the world and good luck trying to get past this screen after surviving the F-35Bs and the Astutes.


So China is a whole generation behind the 18 F-35Bs and the 3 Astute class which will have a field day hunting PLAN aircraft, surface ships and submarines. The 3 * Trafalgar class and 6 * Type-45 destroyers are also a little better than anything that China has.

Yes the Royal Navy would take a beating in an open ocean battle but the PLAN will go down totally to the bottom of the ocean.

UK doesn't have its own sea nuclear deterrence. It still relies on the inferior Trident II D5 from the US, while China will soon equip with the technologically superior JL-3.

The shortcoming of the QE class with is that the F-35B as a STOVL aircraft always suffers the short combat radius problem. And China's escort ships are way more powerful than UK's in both quality and quantity. The F-35B has no chance to approach the carrier battle groups of the Type 001/002 when the Type 055/052D being all armed with the Starry-Sky 2 hypersonic missiles.

China's Type 095 will be a generation ahead with being shaftless/electric rim driven, and the leadship has been deployed since 2 years ago. The Type 093B has been produced in much greater quantity compared to the Astute, and technologically also not much behind.

The Type 45 is not an Aegis destroyer, thus it will have problem to detect the long range targets.

To be fair, I have to admit that the Type 45 than the Type 052C, but it cannot match against the Type 052D.

The Type 052D with the YJ-18 will already blow the Type 45 out of water, not mentioning the newest Starry-Sky 2 hypersonic missile.

UK can only manage to keep 6 Type 45, while the Type 052D has already gone beyond 30th and even more, and the Type 055 has already reached its 10th or even more.

 

[riscol]

Would you look at that F22Raptor is the one who has no idea of the true Chinese capabilities at all and yapping complete nonsense that the Chinese doesn't have battle network. It won't take long before 4 Chinese battle groups fully equipped showing the US what it can really do. From 2050 most US warships would be classified as very old, there's no way it can match the new young breed highly modernized Chinese warships. Clinging on the thought that the US will be ruling the Pacific endlessly proofs a fool's dream.

 

[UKBengali]

UK doesn't have its own sea deterrence. It still relies on the inferior Trident II D5 from the US, while China will soon equip with the technologically superior JL-3.

The shortcoming of the QE class with is that the F-35B as a STOVL aircraft always suffers the short radius problem. And China's escort ships are way more powerful than UK's in both quality and quantity. The F-35B has no chance to approach the carrier battle group of the Type 001/002 when the Type 055/052D being all armed with the Starry-Sky 2 hypersonic missiles.

China's Type 095 will be a generation ahead with being shaftless/electric rim driven, and the leadship has been deployed since 2 years ago. The Type 093B has been produced in much greater quantity compared to the Astute, and technologically also not much behind.

The Type 45 is not an Aegis destroyer, thus it will have problem to detect the long range target.

To be fair, I have to admit that the Type 45 than the Type 052C, but it cannot match against the Type 052D.

The Type 052D with the YJ-18 will already blow the Type 45 out of water, not mentioning the newest Starry-Sky 2 hypersonic missile.

UK can only manage to keep 6 Type 45, while the Type 052D has already gone beyond 30th and even more, and the Type 055 has already reached its 10th or even more.

We are not talking about SLBMs, just a open ocean conflict between UK and PLAN.

Currently QE carrier has 18 F-35B that cannot be countered by J-15s - they will all get shot down probably in the first day of any conflict and then the F-35Bs will be left to get close to fleet(~100km) to launch wave after wave of missile assaults - yes China's large fleet of destroyers will probably shoot most of them down but some will get through and sink ships.
Now how does China even begin to counter the Astute? They will just pick off Chinese subs and surface ships one by one?
China will be totally on the defensive against F-35Bs and Astutes.

The Type-095 will probably be very good and comparable to Astute but it is not ready yet. Type-093B is nowhere near as good as Astute - let us say it is as good as Trafalgar/Improved LA class.

The Sampson radar on the Type-045 can detect targets out to 400km and so will have no problems searching far out- it is also mounted high up and will be good to take out any sea-skimming missiles that China fires at the RN. Each ship can carry up to 72 missiles and so more than 400 in total.

It will be a bloody battle but PLAN will come worse off due to overall technological inferiority in air and sub-surface. It's numerical advantage on surface will not be enough to compensate.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Let us compare PLAN with the UK's Royal Navy.

Let's do it.

1 * Queen Elizabeth Carrier with 18 F-35Bs available - these would outmatch both of your carriers with the obsolete J-15s. They will blow the J-15s out of water way before they knew what hit them.

First, F-35B is purchased from the US. Can the UK even take credit for this?

Second, stealth is an obsolete Cold War concept from the 1980s to take advantage of the Soviet Union's lack of computational power in the Su-27/MiG-29 fighters of that era. 30+ years of Moore's Law has drastically improved the processing power available to AESA radars today, rendering stealth aircraft obsolete. Chinese facial recognition AI has the processing power to pick out a fugitive's face in a concert of 60,000. Picking out a low RCS target in the middle of the ocean (not much clutter) is EASY.

Third, the J-15 Flanker nose can carry a bigger AESA radar than the F-35. Bigger radar = more T/R modules.

Fourth, the PL-15 outranges the AIM-120D.

They can also get pretty close and launch deadly missile volleys at your fleet with their stealth features.

Name a credible anti-ship missile that actually fits INSIDE the F-35's weapon bays. Let me give you a hint. The F-35 can't carry the LRASM internally.

2. 3 * Astute class - the best SSN in the world along with Seawolf - these would hunt your subs and surface fleet with impunity. The 3 * Trafalgass class boats are are at least as good or little better than your Type-093B SSNs and would also be a deadly threat.

The PLAN is approaching 80 subs...

Let me say it again. 80 subs...

3. 6 * Type-45 destroyers - has the best radar system in the world and good luck trying to get past this screen after surviving the F-35Bs and the Astutes.

Compare that to 1 * 055 and 12 * 052D...

This has got to be a joke.

So China is a whole generation behind

Pure fantasy.

but the PLAN will go down totally to the bottom of the ocean.

Pure fantasy. You should write the script for the next Hollywood blockbuster action movie.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

We are not talking about SLBMs, just a open ocean conflict between UK and PLAN.

Currently QE carrier has 18 F-35B that cannot be countered by J-15s - they will all get shot down probably in the first day of any conflict and then the F-35Bs will be left to get close to fleet(~100km) to launch wave after wave of missile assaults - yes China's large fleet of destroyers will probably shoot most of them down but some will get through and sink ships.
Now how does China even begin to counter the Astute? They will just pick off Chinese subs and surface ships one by one?
China will be totally on the defensive against F-35Bs and Astutes.

The Type-095 will probably be very good and comparable to Astute but it is not ready yet. Type-093B is nowhere near as good as Astute - let us say it is as good as Trafalgar/Improved LA class.

The Sampson radar on the Type-045 can detect targets out to 400km and so will have no problems searching far out- it is also mounted high up and will be good to take out any sea-skimming missiles that China fires at the RN. Each ship can carry up to 72 missiles and so more than 400 in total.

It will be a bloody battle but PLAN will come worse off due to overall technological inferiority in air and sub-surface. It's numerical advantage on surface will not be enough to compensate.

You cannot say that the QE will be invincible just because it got F-35B.

According to this logic, even the Ford class should be inferior to the QE class as it cannot deploy with the F-35C.

https://news.usni.org/2019/06/03/co...-class-inability-to-deploy-with-f-35-fighters

China has the 5000KM DF-26 and 8000KM DF-27 as the ASBM backup reinforcement. Therefore, the PLAN is pretty much untouchable in both western Pacific Ocean & Indian Ocean.

 

[Viet]

We are not talking about SLBMs, just a open ocean conflict between UK and PLAN.

Currently QE carrier has 18 F-35B that cannot be countered by J-15s - they will all get shot down probably in the first day of any conflict and then the F-35Bs will be left to get close to fleet(~100km) to launch wave after wave of missile assaults - yes China's large fleet of destroyers will probably shoot most of them down but some will get through and sink ships.
Now how does China even begin to counter the Astute? They will just pick off Chinese subs and surface ships one by one?
China will be totally on the defensive against F-35Bs and Astutes.

The Type-095 will probably be very good and comparable to Astute but it is not ready yet. Type-093B is nowhere near as good as Astute - let us say it is as good as Trafalgar/Improved LA class.

The Sampson radar on the Type-045 can detect targets out to 400km and so will have no problems searching far out- it is also mounted high up and will be good to take out any sea-skimming missiles that China fires at the RN. Each ship can carry up to 72 missiles and so more than 400 in total.

It will be a bloody battle but PLAN will come worse off due to overall technological inferiority in air and sub-surface. It's numerical advantage on surface will not be enough to compensate.

Carriers are white elephants. They can intimidate small neighbors but useless, little value against those countries that have means such as Yakhont. the missiles can target in far distance from land. We can target every ship in every corner in the Sc sea.

 

[riscol]

Didn't the British people also say that William Gavinson has completely lost his mind to challenge the Chinese Navy? I heard he was ridiculed by the British people.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Carriers are white elephants. They can intimidate small neighbors but useless, little value against those countries that have means such as Yakhont. the missiles can target in far distance from land. We can target every ship in every corner in the Sc sea.

Except the nukes, the only conventional weapons that can quickly sink a supercarrier are those ASBMs & hypersonic missiles.

Vietnam has neither of these weapons.