China Takes Aim at U.S. Naval Might

[Zabaniyah]

I think Russia produces the quietest submarines. Ever look at their new nuke powered subs? They are damn scary.

 

[UKBengali]

I think Russia produces the quietest submarines. Ever look at their new nuke powered subs? They are damn scary.

Not really. They did catch up by the end of the 1980s with the Akula 2 which was as qiuite as the improved Los Angeles class.

Their current SSN which is still yet to come into service may only be as quiet as the US Virgina class which will have been in service for a decade by then.

 

[Martian2]

Who also read about a Chinese Song Class Submarine popping up in the middle of a US Naval exercise? How the hell can it be undetected with a whole battle group protecting the aircraft carrier? China is already looking at a new successor to the Song Class Submarines which will pose even greater threat. I for one am not a fan of US Navy submarines, with most countries turning to Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) there subs are going to be as quiet as ever. But the US still continue to operate Nuclear powered submarines which are in theory much noisier. With the US Defence budget, they should be leading in aspects like this, which leaves me one question? What are they doing with all of that $600 + billion?

I agree with you completely that the U.S. Navy had trouble detecting a Chinese Song-class submarine (see below). The new advanced Chinese Yuan-class submarine (see below) will be a far greater challenge to detect.

China's nuclear and conventional attack submarines

Type 093 Shang-class Nuclear Attack Submarine (SSN)

Type 039 Song-class Diesel-electric Attack Submarine

Yuan-class SSKs represent the new generation of PLA Navy conventional attack submarines.

 

[SinoChallenger]

One of the most advanced diesel-electric submarines in the world -- the Chinese Qing class. It is comparable in performance to the Japanese Soryu class and the German Type 212.

 

[gambit]

Who also read about a Chinese Song Class Submarine popping up in the middle of a US Naval exercise? How the hell can it be undetected with a whole battle group protecting the aircraft carrier? China is already looking at a new successor to the Song Class Submarines which will pose even greater threat. I for one am not a fan of US Navy submarines, with most countries turning to Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) there subs are going to be as quiet as ever. But the US still continue to operate Nuclear powered submarines which are in theory much noisier. With the US Defence budget, they should be leading in aspects like this, which leaves me one question? What are they doing with all of that $600 + billion?

I see you got suckered by that story, eh?

First...If a sub lay silent enough, it will not be detected. Simple as that.

Second...If I was the Chinese dictator, I would have ordered the sub captain and his ENTIRE senior staff shot and/or drown at sea for that patently stupid stunt. Let the enlisted crew sail the boat home if necessary. If my subs are discovered to be that capable against the world's most powerful navy, why would I want to reveal it in PEACETIME?

More likely the Chinese sub was under some pressure, not the physical kind, but the operational type where the boat's captain felt he was running out of maneuvering room in trying to either move out of the way or trying to keep up with the surface vessels. Subs are not that fast under. Ever been in a middle of a US naval exercise? Heck, ever even served in a military?

 

[DrSomnath999]

When you put on your real flag Chinese troll? LOL What a coward your people are!

well i can ask u the same question to u why have u put pakistan flag in ur avatar while putting american flag as ur nation's flag

LOL What Russian let you eat to make you come up to such low IQ statement?

why should he ask u before making such kind of statement

USA Navy is the most modernized and strongest in World today, how stupid you are to compare them with the inferior outdated junky Russian weapons.

well ok i agree that ,but mate russian weapon are junky then how can they be world's 2nd largest exporter of weapons

Hey Matian2 boy: When will you stop spreading your trash pics on PDF? Is that what you got paid to come here spreading such propaganda for your government?

well no comments for that but man ur signature SUXXX ,antibody is a very respectful member of all defence forums plz go to
rehab .
THANK U

 

[Fantasy]

I see you got suckered by that story, eh?

First...If a sub lay silent enough, it will not be detected. Simple as that.

Second...If I was the Chinese dictator, I would have ordered the sub captain and his ENTIRE senior staff shot and/or drown at sea for that patently stupid stunt. Let the enlisted crew sail the boat home if necessary. If my subs are discovered to be that capable against the world's most powerful navy, why would I want to reveal it in PEACETIME?

More likely the Chinese sub was under some pressure, not the physical kind, but the operational type where the boat's captain felt he was running out of maneuvering room in trying to either move out of the way or trying to keep up with the surface vessels. Subs are not that fast under. Ever been in a middle of a US naval exercise? Heck, ever even served in a military?

Nothing stupid about it, in a game of Chicken, the USA fired the first salvo.

 

[gambit]

Nothing stupid about it, in a game of Chicken, the USA fired the first salvo.

It was a stupid move. So stupid that I doubt the Chinese sub captain actually did it. Unlike most here, I give the Chinese military leadership more common sense than bravado and overly romanticized sentiments about the Chinese military. Either the Chinese sub was forced to surface by a US sub tracking him or that he was in some sort of operational trouble that he felt compelled to surface to save his boat. Either way, his career is probably toasted.

 

[gubbi]

It was a stupid move. So stupid that I doubt the Chinese sub captain actually did it. Unlike most here, I give the Chinese military leadership more common sense than bravado and overly romanticized sentiments about the Chinese military. Either the Chinese sub was forced to surface by a US sub tracking him or that he was in some sort of operational trouble that he felt compelled to surface to save his boat. Either way, his career is probably toasted.

Question. Does a CBG really sail 'blind' with regards to being aware of enemy subs lurking around? With all the advances in ASW technology you get to read, I think not. In all probability, I read some comments, that the sub was indeed being tracked all along and like you mentioned, something made the captain of that chinese sub surface, and the media was let to have a field day about certain 'incompetences'.

 

[gubbi]

They tried that in 1950-1953 already, and then again in 1962

Lol. The one which was started by the NKs to "unite' the country with support of the Soviets and then the Chinese. A war in China's very own backyard which couldnt move the line where it started? And you idiot bots call that victory! The propaganda really works with only "High IQ" people, aint it?

More like a "fore taste of things to come".!!

You wish. Lol. US should be running scared of Pakistan and Iran too then.

 

[Windjammer]

You wish. Lol. US should be running scared of Pakistan and Iran too then.

Being an Indian Nationals, we know through obsession and a certain mindset, you guys can't help but drag Pakistan into every discussion, none the less a reminder is in place that the subject concerns US/China scenario.
Red Indian saying goes, A Warrior knows how to respect the other Combatant..... if in any doubt, do recall how the US PC-3 had to be dismantled before being allowed to ship out of China.

 

[gambit]

Question. Does a CBG really sail 'blind' with regards to being aware of enemy subs lurking around? With all the advances in ASW technology you get to read, I think not.

Absolutely not. It does not matter if any subs out there, known or not, are 'friends' or 'foes'. If a carrier battle group (CVBG) sails, unknown US subs are already well ahead of the fleet.

This image => File:Abraham-Lincoln-battlegroup.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia <= Is NOT representative of how a CVBG would sail in normal operations. This is a 'photo-op' formation or sneered as "bull's eye" formation, according to my navy friends. In a normal deployment, within anyone's view, he would see the carrier and may be one or two other escorts far off in the horizon somewhere. Over the fleet's array would be an AWACS monitoring everything. But it would practically impossible for anyone to see all ships for the group while underway. Underwater would be US subs and no one would know where they are.

So if there was a Chinese sub that surfaced in the midst of this array: Either he was truly truly truly truly truly undetected and should have stayed that way instead of pulling a stunt as tactically stupid as the "bull's eye" formation. Or that the Chinese sub captain got caught by the fleet's movement, got boxed in, got 'pinged' by one or more US subs, and was running out of maneuvering room underwater so he had to surface in order to save his boat.

All those who cheered the Chinese sub should have jeered him instead. The Chinese captain should have remained silent, record as much as he can regarding his position and how many ships passed overhead over time, if he detected any US sub, how long were they in the area and were there any signs the American subs detected him, and so on...The opportunities for an intelligence gathering and tactical knowledge gain coups are enormous.

But he threw all that away just so he could pull an 'in-your-face' stunt to the Americans? The world is full of idiots and incompetents but I find it extremely difficult to believe that despite the PLAN's inexperience and capabilities compared to the USN that the Chinese, with their desire to professionalize all branches, would promote such an idiot to be a sub's captain.

In all probability, I read some comments, that the sub was indeed being tracked all along and like you mentioned, something made the captain of that chinese sub surface, and the media was let to have a field day about certain 'incompetences'.

I can speak for US that we have no problems if the entire world believe that the USN is incompetent to the PLAN. When the shooting begins and Chinese fighters starts dropping from the sky and Chinese ships starts dropping from the sea's surface, we will still call ourselves 'incompetent' to the Chinese.

 

[Phalanx]

Thats exactly what im talking about, great pictures and a stunning submarine.

 

[gambit]

...do recall how the US PC-3 had to be dismantled before being allowed to ship out of China.

The Chinese had to do that in order to make up the loss of face that one of their pilots in a nimble little fighter collided with a lumbering multi-engined prop job in the vastness of the sky.

 

[Phalanx]

Ive read somewhere and viewed diagrams on the noise levels of both American and Russian Ballistic and other submarines. From what i can remember, they are relatively close to each other, but the American submarines prevail. Im not 100% on the source it has come from and they dont include Russia's latest developments in submarines. I will try to find them for you.