China Takes Aim at U.S. Naval Might

[Phalanx]

I see you got suckered by that story, eh?

First...If a sub lay silent enough, it will not be detected. Simple as that.

Second...If I was the Chinese dictator, I would have ordered the sub captain and his ENTIRE senior staff shot and/or drown at sea for that patently stupid stunt. Let the enlisted crew sail the boat home if necessary. If my subs are discovered to be that capable against the world's most powerful navy, why would I want to reveal it in PEACETIME?

More likely the Chinese sub was under some pressure, not the physical kind, but the operational type where the boat's captain felt he was running out of maneuvering room in trying to either move out of the way or trying to keep up with the surface vessels. Subs are not that fast under. Ever been in a middle of a US naval exercise? Heck, ever even served in a military?

Im on your side; remember that. And no doubt the Chinese sub was under pressure, but i would like an experts opinion, possibly yourself? Isn't there no long range system on US navy surface vessels and submarines which could not have detected the sub? and also surely the 'PLAN' would be wanting to size up and possibly set an impression on the USN? And do we have any source that the subs captain and his staff have been 'sent home' i highly expect him and his crew were congratulated.

 

[Fantasy]

It was a stupid move. So stupid that I doubt the Chinese sub captain actually did it. Unlike most here, I give the Chinese military leadership more common sense than bravado and overly romanticized sentiments about the Chinese military. Either the Chinese sub was forced to surface by a US sub tracking him or that he was in some sort of operational trouble that he felt compelled to surface to save his boat. Either way, his career is probably toasted.

The kitty hawk along with it's entire battle-group was tailed for 86 hours after being rejected to port at hong kong, and passes through and violated the Taiwan straits and only surfaced once it is maneuvering for military exercises somewhere in between Taiwan and the carrier base in Japan. The 2 Subs trailing it surfaced 9 miles away from the carrier, well within kill distance. It's not a stupid move, it's a well calculated move, you have 2 subs facing off in the middle of a carrier battle-group with 4500 men aboard, its like holding a shotgun to the head. In fact the sub commanders most likely got a promotion, this sort of maneuvers cannot have be done without the approval from the military leadership or the civilian leadership.

 

[Fantasy]

Also don't forget it was America violating Chinese territory, in that sort of situation you should well expect the violated to act irrationally, in this case the Chinese did not act irrationally, imagine what would have happened if it was Chinese carrier sailing off the coast of Los Angeles?

 

[gambit]

The kitty hawk along with it's entire battle-group was tailed for 86 hours after being rejected to port at hong kong, and passes through and violated the Taiwan straits and only surfaced once it is maneuvering for military exercises somewhere in between Taiwan and the carrier base in Japan. The 2 Subs trailing it surfaced 9 miles away from the carrier, well within kill distance. It's not a stupid move, it's a well calculated move, you have 2 subs facing off in the middle of a carrier battle-group with 4500 men aboard, its like holding a shotgun to the head.

Of course it was a stupid move. Do you really believe that the ONLY way for a sub to make its presence known is through surfacing? For this Chinese sub captain, if he really wanted to make a statement, the best statement would be two pings at the edge of his firing solution, then scoot to bottom and hold station or drift. The Americans, surface and subs, would be scrambling to find out whose pings it was and when they determined that those pings were not from an American source, all US Navy hell would break lose. This is peacetime. In war, for a prize like a US aircraft carrier, the risk of firing a torp well within its range and thereby exposing his position would be worth it to secure one or two hits. But in peacetime, two pings as he is at the theoretical edge of his torp (firing solution) would be a statement that would rock the Pentagon on the same day.

Further, the Kitty Hawk's group was not conducting an ASW exercise. So imagine what would happen IF it was conducting such. The Chinese sub, if he make any movement other than to drift his boat, would most likely be detected due to our superior sensor technology. If this was wartime, the carrier would be making high speed dashes AND unpredictable maneuvers, making 'stalking' as you fantasized about nearly impossible.

Aircraft carrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Carriers steam at speed, for example up to 35 knots (65 km/h), into the wind during flight deck operations in order to increase the wind over the deck to exceed a safe minimum.

Do you really believe that a sub, diesel or nuclear, can cruise 35 knots and maneuvering below and not be found? This is why for those of us who have military experience, reading this sort of detail lacking news items and civilians commenting on things they do not know about is hilarious.

In fact the sub commanders most likely got a promotion, this sort of maneuvers cannot have be done without the approval from the military leadership or the civilian leadership.

Unless you know for certain, do not say 'In fact'.

---------- Post added at 09:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 PM ----------

Also don't forget it was America violating Chinese territory, in that sort of situation you should well expect the violated to act irrationally, in this case the Chinese did not act irrationally,...

How is that area of the sea China's sovereign territory?

...imagine what would have happened if it was Chinese carrier sailing off the coast of Los Angeles?

Geezz...Another one who does not know that we routinely intercepted Soviet fighters off US coasts during the Cold War.

 

[applesauce]

Of course it was a stupid move. Do you really believe that the ONLY way for a sub to make its presence known is through surfacing? For this Chinese sub captain, if he really wanted to make a statement, the best statement would be two pings at the edge of his firing solution, then scoot to bottom and hold station or drift. The Americans, surface and subs, would be scrambling to find out whose pings it was and when they determined that those pings were not from an American source, all US Navy hell would break lose. This is peacetime. In war, for a prize like a US aircraft carrier, the risk of firing a torp well within its range and thereby exposing his position would be worth it to secure one or two hits. But in peacetime, two pings as he is at the theoretical edge of his torp (firing solution) would be a statement that would rock the Pentagon on the same day.

psh, coming up and showing the flag is much more useful for making a statement than ping then hide, its shows who did it and how close he was able to get, far more alarming than a unknown ping at the edge of range.

 

[gambit]

psh, coming up and showing the flag is much more useful for making a statement than ping then hide, its shows who did it and how close he was able to get, far more alarming than a unknown ping at the edge of range.

Unknown? We were in China's backyard. What is there to figure out whose ping it was if it was not American? What I see here is that while common sense persists what is equally persistent is the many arguments being created in order to justify people's belief that somehow the Chinese had the upper hand in this. Are you saying we cannot figure out the distance of the originator based upon that sonar ping? A sonar rap at max range mean there was an equal chance of a sonar rap right below.

 

[amalakas]

Unknown? We were in China's backyard. What is there to figure out whose ping it was if it was not American? What I see here is that while common sense persists what is equally persistent is the many arguments being created in order to justify people's belief that somehow the Chinese had the upper hand in this. Are you saying we cannot figure out the distance of the originator based upon that sonar ping? A sonar rap at max range mean there was an equal chance of a sonar rap right below.

most decent passive sensors would have the position of the sub in a ms had he pinged.

I think it is possible to shadow a carrier group, diesel subs have done it in the past, and russians did it.
but there is a difference shadowing a carrier group over large distances and at great range and being close enough to be a threat.

Surfacing to make a statement is i believe as close to real idiocy as trying to shoot down a plane throwing pianos at it.

 

[Donation]

i think Chinese people generally arent interested in challenge the US militarily , its the US pop his nose to everyone's business, PLA do have to make the polished caucasian men look like this when they have decide to interfere our business militarily,

 

[gambit]

most decent passive sensors would have the position of the sub in a ms had he pinged.

True. But then this is peacetime. Nothing would happen to the Chinese sub. Submariners, even Americans, would objectively applaud the Chinese for both being wily enough to surprise the Americans and for exercising a fair balance between discretion and balls.

I think it is possible to shadow a carrier group, diesel subs have done it in the past, and russians did it.
but there is a difference shadowing a carrier group over large distances and at great range and being close enough to be a threat.

Surfacing to make a statement is i believe as close to real idiocy as trying to shoot down a plane throwing pianos at it.

If he knew ahead of time where the Americans were going to be and if he laid low and silent enough, then he would be close enough to finalize a firing solution. But if this is wartime, no way could he 'stalk' an aircraft carrier running full steam to launch aircrafts.

 

[Windjammer]

The Chinese had to do that in order to make up the loss of face that one of their pilots in a nimble little fighter collided with a lumbering multi-engined prop job in the vastness of the sky.

Whatever the crash scenario....just out of interest, would America have obliged, had the same incident taken place in a different or a smaller country.??